Air BNB Problem

[khutchi]

if you wanna or need to use your home as an Air BnB, then buy something in an area that is zoned for it...pretty simple

Best comment so far. Airbnb is the biggest hotel in Kelowna and <10% of its units are in the commercial zones city council spends millions trying to optimize for hotels and tourism. So broken...

[n2ktown]

I am the one who posted the letter to Castanet.. it was an email to them, didn't realize it would be posted.

Reading through the comments, i think there are a few misunderstandings. firstly, I have never had a neighbor complain to me. I am always home when there are Airbnb guests staying at my place, so I am always monitoring. Respecting my neighbors is very important to me, so I think it is incorrect to assume all Airbnb's are disruptive. One of my neighbors loves my Airbnb just as much as I do, she comes over and meets them and we all talk and hangout together.

Next, people have mentioned Airbnb is taking away from permanent rentals, I agree only if people are renting out separate suites or full houses. As I mentioned in my letter, I am renting out my spare bedroom (meaning i share the bathroom,kitchen, living space etc. with guests.). It is not appealing at all to rent this room out full time as I like to have the room available for friends and family. Airbnb is a great option me for as it gives me flexibility.

Lastly, I will be paying tax on all the income generated come tax time when I declare the earnings. That is in addition to the Airbnb charge. I am not opposed to the city charging a fee if it helps support the cause, them taking a cut for nothing is what i'm not a fan of.

Essentially the point of this... every situation is different. It is unfair to put a blanket statement on all Airbnb's. Of course you will hear the bad stories and people who have not been responsible, I was trying to share a positive experience for those who may not be familiar. Perhaps I am in a different category because the living spaces are shared and all of this isnt relevant to me, I just have not seen enough information on the details to be sure. It really is a case by case basis. Even for those renting out their suites, making them unavailable for long term tenants, they have the right to do so regardless of the Kelowna rental situation - of course this is if they are following bylaw, I hope the city outlines the rules so moving forward everyone can make informed decisions. There are departments in place to handle noise complaints.. at least with Airbnb if you get noisy or disruptive guests, they are gone soon. I am sure many people have stories about awful full time tenants which are VERY hard to remove. There is good and bad to all things, lets just make sure we're looking at the full picture and not judging everyone based on one or a couple experiences. :)

[techrtr]

We have one across the street. For the past two weeks, there has been a lot of screaming and yelling, car alarms going off etc at 3:00 in the morning. I just found out last night that it's an Air BNB. Tons of cars parked there, people coming and going all hours.

I check it out on the Air BnB site and it's listed there. The guy who claims he's the owner is not the owner and he has this profile that makes it look like he's some zen master which is crap. I messaged him on the Air BNB site and said the place is turning into a party house. He denied every thing and said he strictly watches his guests and has strict rules. However, he's not even in the house. Apparently the owners take off for the weekend, a group rolls in, and basically does whatever they want. When they leave, cleaners come in a take care of the mess before the next batch arrives.

It's completely changed the neighborhood for the worst. If it was families coming for the weekend, I wouldn't mind it. When it's 6 car loads of guys from Surrey, that's a different ballgame.

[Mark1111]

The city will probably put in and enforce regulations soon. Probably with as much success as they have with illegal basement suites. Its not going away. Demand is too high and the product is far superior to the hotel experience.

[Urban Cowboy]

The city will probably put in and enforce regulations soon. Probably with as much success as they have with illegal basement suites. Its not going away. Demand is too high and the product is far superior to the hotel experience.

It needs to be tackled with far more force than basement suites.

At least basement suites provide somewhat affordable housing for locals, and still line up with the definition of residential, whereas these Air BNB's are nothing more than a revolving door commercial operation.

If one wants to run a hotel/motel then build or buy a hotel or motel.

[sublime]

At least basement suites provide somewhat affordable housing for locals, and still line up with the definition of residential, whereas these Air BNB's are nothing more than a revolving door commercial operation.

Hardly a fact. Also what is "affordable" is subjective. I have seen $1200+ a month basement suites frequently posted. This is not a black or white issue. The root of the problem is these developers (and city hall for letting them) suckering the general public saying they are building "affordable" multiple family developments when they are clearly marketing them to investors.

[Urban Cowboy]

At least basement suites provide somewhat affordable housing for locals, and still line up with the definition of residential, whereas these Air BNB's are nothing more than a revolving door commercial operation.

Hardly a fact. Also what is "affordable" is subjective. I have seen $1200+ a month basement suites frequently posted. This is not a black or white issue. The root of the problem is these developers (and city hall for letting them) suckering the general public saying they are building "affordable" multiple family developments when they are clearly marketing them to investors.

I disagree with you in that first of all I did say "somewhat" affordable, knowing that prices are all over the map, but I know there are some suites around for $1000 or less and often with utilities and internet included, which for Kelowna is pretty much the definition of affordable.

Basement suites are generally occupied by people who actually live in Kelowna or area, as opposed to outsiders coming in to party and whoop it up in some of these BNB's, with little regard for neighbors. These are the ones causing the issues that spawn threads such as this.

In my opinion it would be less problematic to have suites rented out to locals, with the home owner living on site, than it is to rent out the whole place to short term hooligans while the home owner is MIA. It seems to me this is the recurring complaint.

[Jacquie]

Is this actually worlds apart from an illegal basement suite? I mean you have extra people coming and going, extra vehicles parked all over the street as there's usually little or no off road parking and as they are renters they may not care too much about noise and mess that they create (not all renters are like this of course)
Then after multiple complaints to bylaw and little to nothing being done we suddenly get an amnesty for all the suites so it doesn't matter anyways.
Our street has become a parking lot where it was once an empty street apart from visitors and this is all down to the single family homes having suites installed after being sold. At least we don't have any noise or mess issues as such.

That is a pretty naive/ignorant question - of course they are completely different. A basement suite gives people who live and work in the community - who contribute to the community - an affordable place to live. They may be students, nurses, work at mcdonalds or even somebody on welfare or disability. They are shopping in town and helping to support businesses over the long term. And if proven to be noisy/awful neighbors are generally evicted.

Airbnb takes those rental units away from people who actually live in and contribute to the community, they drive up the prices of the available rental units, and making the viability of the community questionable. Not only that - but they are people on vacation...they don't have any vested interest in the community or the neighborhood. If it suites them to be up all night partying - they will. If it suits them to keep their kids hyped up - they will. They don't care if they keep the whole damn neighborhood up - they are there to live it up on vacation - not worry about their impact on the community or the neighborhood. If they cared about that they wouldn't be using AirBnB at all - they would be supporting legit tax paying hotels/motels/resorts....which in turn creates jobs and keeps the local economy healthy.

Everybody who has an AirBnB or uses AirBnB and other sites like it really need to start thinking about how they impact the community as a whole....how people are affected and are unable to find rental units for themselves or their families if they have one. Nurses, Hospital Employees, Students, Service Industry Workers, Customer Services Workers - from moderate to minimum wage workers are being forced to leave Okanagan communities because they can no longer afford to live in them due in large part to AirBnB. Very short sighted - a community actually needs people to work all levels of employment to keep the community viable....to keep restaurants open, to keep hospitals open. SMH

[Jacquie]

Unfortunately. It never works out well . Being a rat never helps anyone . I agree air bnb is ridiculous . Should not be operating . However the last thing we need is bigger government .

I love Airbnb, and have used them many times while traveling. We are also a quiet couple, so no issues. But its here to stay for sure. I also doubt there are sufficient bylaws in place that would restrict most from having an Airbnb at their home. Kelowna loves to think they have things covered, but they wouldn't hold up in courts.

It doesn't bother you that your are contributing to a housing shortage for renters? That you are negatively impacting hotels/motels/resorts who provide employment for members of the communities you are visiting? That by saving a couple hundred dollars you are costing people their homes and their jobs? So sad that too many are so self absorbed and short sighted :-( But as long as it doesn't directly affect you - right?

[dominik]

Having read a few of the replies I have to admit that many have the right attitude towards Airbnb.
The platform itself is quite sustainable, if we aren't talking full homes or suites, however the moment that changes we have a bit of a problem.

To look at it as "basement suites for those who need them" however is not the right way, at least not as a whole. We have a serious issue in Kelowna, and likely across the whole Okanagan if not further. We have a lot of suites being rented, for much more than anyone in the "service" industry can afford. Considering monthly income for someone making 20 dollars an hour on around 35 hours is 2200 dollars after taxes and other deductions, it is ludicrous to think that basement suites at 1000-1200 are anywhere near affordable.

I am not saying that anyone said it is affordable but we need to be aware of the facts here. We basically made it a requirement for anyone to have roommates or be in a relationship to be able to pay their rent and make the rent cost only take 30% of your pay cheque.

I know, the argument that "if you can't afford it, move!" comes quickly to mind however there is a small catch attached to it, which is that you'd be ignorant to the rental market situation as a whole. This is where the argument "well I can't rent it out for less without loosing money" comes in, and here is an answer most people won't like... This means you cannot afford your house or are unable to rent your suite. There may be other situations which would make you unable to rent but that is simply a reality.

When the November 2016 CMHC Report determined that a studio should be 710 a 1 bedroom 864 and a two bedroom 1066 and a 3 bedroom 1252 in our region (based on the economic situation and populous), we should ask ourselves what went wrong here. We are nowhere near these prices, basement suites depending on rooms should be still cheaper than apartments yet most of the time are not. Here we have an issue that builds upon itself, Apartment owners see prices for suites, raise prices for apartments, condo owners see this and do the same, then basement suite owners see that and think they can inch a little closer... Now here we have a vicious circle (one which isn't entirely accurate either mind you).

Then there is the other aspect, someone bought their home at a seemingly good price but still needs rental income to maintain their home, the issue here is that most people caught in this are passing on the majority of their mortgage payments (if not all) to the tenant to make their payments. This is a problem as suites, should be the cheapest rental opportunity out there. They offer the least amount of privacy and autonomy (no matter which way you want to turn that, it is supported alone by the fact that one takes a single family home and tries to place two households in it, without the proper insulation, firewalls, access, etc.) and therefore should be the lowest priced, yet they aren't. Some actually compete with higher end apartments or townhouses in their price ranges.

I am not saying that those who pass on their mortgage payments are evil, or irresponsible or anything along the lines of that, they just determined this is the only way to support their home. If that is the case it would theoretically make them "unable" to actually rent out their basements as they can't "hold" their home without a tenant, from a financial perspective I'd see this as touchy.

Now some determined they only need a little help a couple months of the year, airbnb is the solution for this however ONLY when we are talking to rooms, etc to being rented out. If we are talking suites, apartments and houses they are posing a whole new series of issues.

1. When someone rents an Airbnb to save money they will likely not spend any more tourism dollars here than absolutely necessary (argument for "it brings business" goes out the window)
2. AirBNB beds aren't counted towards the Cities tourism beds, meaning the province does not give Kelowna, or the region any additional funding for the theoretical additional tourists we have (meaning more visitors with less infrastructure improvements or maintenance).
3. AirBNB users usually stay short term, rarely enough time to spend a lot of money in the area.
4. If we are talking full homes, apartments or condos, now we are talking loss of rental property.

The overall concept is great until it is abused and this is where we need to make sure we pay attention. Is AirBNB the only problem, or for that matter THE problem? Highly unlikely, it just is a part of a bigger issue. We need more rental developments, in many ways the market needs to be flooded with them, however this will come with a very painful downside, one most of us won't like.

Property devaluation, especially in the condo/apartment or townhouse market, this would drive rental prices down however at the same time make it for many homeowners impossible to maintain their homes and payments. Whatever is going to happen it will require A LOT of planning and foresight as we (Kelowna/Canada) could not handle a sudden collapse of a housing market. However, rental properties are needed.

[n2ktown]

It doesn't bother you that your are contributing to a housing shortage for renters? That you are negatively impacting hotels/motels/resorts who provide employment for members of the communities you are visiting? That by saving a couple hundred dollars you are costing people their homes and their jobs? So sad that too many are so self absorbed and short sighted :-( But as long as it doesn't directly affect you - right?

[/quote]

Jacqueline, I am sorry you have had only negative experiences with airbnb, so much to the point that it has made you narrow minded about it.

Airbnb does not take away from the hotel industry, arguably. Hotels in Kelowna charge a premium in the summer and are at capacity. The people who rent airbnb are likely not who would be staying in a hotel here, they would simply not come at all. The hotels will continue to do great here and people who work at them will stay employed regardless of airbnb.

Your thoughts of airbnb hosts being short sighted when it comes to the wellbeing of our community is incorrect in my opinion. Airbnb is not costing people their homes and jobs. Have you ever considered that perhaps those minimum wage workers that you speak about are the ones hosting spare rooms on airbnb so they can make ends meet? Not everyone is renting their whole homes to bachelor parties every weekend. Every person I know on airbnb is renting a portion of their owner occupied residents. And another point you should consider: I have rented to many airbnb guests.. not one have been partiers/vacationers. Most have been parents and students spending a few nights here while going on job interviews and looking for a place to rent for when they move here... These guests will become our community and what you're suggesting is that we should not offer them alternative accomdation options in order to look out for permanent residents.. your failing to consider who these guests are. FYI tourists contribute to Kelownas economy... In fact a large portion of Kelownas economy is made up of the tourism industry. Visitors spend money here which employs MANY full time residents here that work in tourism and airbnb helps permanent residents earn extra cash which also goes back into the community.

Yes - there will be people who abuse it, it does not mean that is the majority. There are also permanent renters who distroy homes.. it doesnt mean you get rid of renters entirely. Let's talk about the real pros and cons, with facts and research and come up with solutions and ideas rather than just pointing fingers and blame.

I would encourage you to look at the full picture, talk to different airbnb hosts, learn about the Kelowna economy and just get more information on the topic in general before posting such an opinionated, one-sided comment.

[stuphoto]

if it was me I'd go a step further and return the favor, some nice loud new kids on the block all day long should get the point across lol.

That reminds me of something from my childhood.
Many, Many years ago. My fathers third wife told us what her solution was to clear out campsites from the partiers after they kept her up all night.
She would wait until they were all asleep, and crank up her bagpipe music.
I liked her, too bad my dad messed that one up.

[sublime]

Jacqueline, I am sorry you have had only negative experiences with airbnb, so much to the point that it has made you narrow minded about it.

Airbnb does not take away from the hotel industry, arguably. Hotels in Kelowna charge a premium in the summer and are at capacity. The people who rent airbnb are likely not who would be staying in a hotel here, they would simply not come at all. The hotels will continue to do great here and people who work at them will stay employed regardless of airbnb.

Couldn't agree more. There have been two articles in the last week about new hotels expected to be built in both Oliver and Vernon. On top of that some posters again taking a minority experience with Airbnb and paint a blanket statement. I would take a wild guess most of those opposed have not ever used an Airbnb. There are hundreds if not thousands of Airbnbs across the Okanagan, what percentage have issues? With that attitude then there are issues with hotel guests, festivals, events etc.? Sounds like the same people that complain about all the previously mentioned. No pleasing some.

[RustyCrayon]

Jacqueline, I am sorry you have had only negative experiences with airbnb, so much to the point that it has made you narrow minded about it.

Airbnb does not take away from the hotel industry, arguably. Hotels in Kelowna charge a premium in the summer and are at capacity. The people who rent airbnb are likely not who would be staying in a hotel here, they would simply not come at all. The hotels will continue to do great here and people who work at them will stay employed regardless of airbnb.

Couldn't agree more. There have been two articles in the last week about new hotels expected to be built in both Oliver and Vernon. On top of that some posters again taking a minority experience with Airbnb and paint a blanket statement. I would take a wild guess most of those opposed have not ever used an Airbnb. There are hundreds if not thousands of Airbnbs across the Okanagan, what percentage have issues? With that attitude then there are issues with hotel guests, festivals, events etc.? Sounds like the same people that complain about all the previously mentioned. No pleasing some.

So you would be fine with your neighbours operating an AirBnB that was continuous party house all summer long?
Noise, loud music, yelling, cars parked all over the place... and once they get tired and go home, a whole new batch shows up the next day. Because that's what is going on in our neighbourhood. I guess that makes us narrow minded, because we don't want to live next to a revolving door of noisy, inconsiderate strangers.

No, not all AirBnBs are like that. But people SHOULD have a choice when it comes to moving next to a hotel, nightclub or amusement park.

[Urban Cowboy]

Jacqueline, I am sorry you have had only negative experiences with airbnb, so much to the point that it has made you narrow minded about it.

Airbnb does not take away from the hotel industry, arguably. Hotels in Kelowna charge a premium in the summer and are at capacity. The people who rent airbnb are likely not who would be staying in a hotel here, they would simply not come at all. The hotels will continue to do great here and people who work at them will stay employed regardless of airbnb.

Couldn't agree more. There have been two articles in the last week about new hotels expected to be built in both Oliver and Vernon. On top of that some posters again taking a minority experience with Airbnb and paint a blanket statement. I would take a wild guess most of those opposed have not ever used an Airbnb. There are hundreds if not thousands of Airbnbs across the Okanagan, what percentage have issues? With that attitude then there are issues with hotel guests, festivals, events etc.? Sounds like the same people that complain about all the previously mentioned. No pleasing some.

I suspect that some who are defending Air BNB's, are the same who complain about orchards that want to make a few extra bucks by allowing campers, or who gripe about improper use of ALR land, which at the end of the day has far less direct impact on neighbors than an Air BNB operation located within a residential neighborhood. Just say'n there's more than one way to look at it.

If we want farmers to adhere to ALR regulations, then home owners should adhere to zoning regulations in residential areas.