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Gospel Mission location - again.

Re: Gospel Mission location - again.

Postby forumdoug » Oct 6th, 2017, 4:21 pm

The City of Kelowna and McDonald's Restaurants of Canada are still in a protracted dispute over compensation for expropriation of part of their land for their former Water St location. Perhaps this would be an ideal way for the City to buy out the rest of the site at a fair price that compensates McDonald's? The City could, in turn, lease it to the Kelowna Gospel Mission which could borrow funds against their existing Leon Avenue property to finance construction, along with senior level government grants that would be fully repaid (i.e., a secured bridge loan) once the new, expanded facility is built and the old facility sold. The City could even further pledge to agree to increase density on the site to increase the potential market value of the property to developers (in order to maximize KGM's proceeds from sale), with the view to attract either an office/commercial or mixed-used residential rental/commercial or residential condo/commercial development.

The new facility could be, let's say 8 stories, with a combined thrift store, kitchen, day use cafe, winter day use warming centre/lounge and public washrooms on the main floor, administrative offices, case worker meeting rooms with clients, board room and dental services centre on the second floor, two floors for a temporary shelter housing with secure-able, sectioned off "wards" to accommodate different levels of male+female residents as each demand fluctuates (i.e., 100-150 residents) and then 2-4 floors of short-term transitional studio, 1- and 2-bedroom suites rented at below market rates (i.e., 20-25% of the lower of their current or previous year's gross pre-tax income). In total, it'd be 6-8 stories. A pedestrian overpass should be added at either of Water or Abbott Streets and landscaping amenities added. Minimal parking would be needed, though some secure, lockable outdoor storage units (i.e., 3x3, 5x5 and a few 5x10 units could be added within a small, fenced portion of the property) would be recommended, especially for those in the temporary shelter portion of the facility.

It's an ideal use for the site. The KGM could then either consolidate their Rutland thrift store into the new thrift store for cost savings or maintain two sites, with the new site primarily used to provide free clothing and small household items to residents. The KGM Society board would also, in tandem, depending on how large the new "complex of care" is to be evaluate their other short- to medium-term rental houses and either maintain, update or sell some or all of them. :)

Cheers,
Doug

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Re: Gospel Mission location - again.

Postby lightspeed » Oct 6th, 2017, 5:07 pm

forumdoug wrote:The City of Kelowna and McDonald's Restaurants of Canada are still in a protracted dispute over compensation for expropriation of part of their land for their former Water St location. Perhaps this would be an ideal way for the City to buy out the rest of the site at a fair price that compensates McDonald's? The City could, in turn, lease it to the Kelowna Gospel Mission which could borrow funds against their existing Leon Avenue property to finance construction, along with senior level government grants that would be fully repaid (i.e., a secured bridge loan) once the new, expanded facility is built and the old facility sold. The City could even further pledge to agree to increase density on the site to increase the potential market value of the property to developers (in order to maximize KGM's proceeds from sale), with the view to attract either an office/commercial or mixed-used residential rental/commercial or residential condo/commercial development.

The new facility could be, let's say 8 stories, with a combined thrift store, kitchen, day use cafe, winter day use warming centre/lounge and public washrooms on the main floor, administrative offices, case worker meeting rooms with clients, board room and dental services centre on the second floor, two floors for a temporary shelter housing with secure-able, sectioned off "wards" to accommodate different levels of male+female residents as each demand fluctuates (i.e., 100-150 residents) and then 2-4 floors of short-term transitional studio, 1- and 2-bedroom suites rented at below market rates (i.e., 20-25% of the lower of their current or previous year's gross pre-tax income). In total, it'd be 6-8 stories. A pedestrian overpass should be added at either of Water or Abbott Streets and landscaping amenities added. Minimal parking would be needed, though some secure, lockable outdoor storage units (i.e., 3x3, 5x5 and a few 5x10 units could be added within a small, fenced portion of the property) would be recommended, especially for those in the temporary shelter portion of the facility.

It's an ideal use for the site. The KGM could then either consolidate their Rutland thrift store into the new thrift store for cost savings or maintain two sites, with the new site primarily used to provide free clothing and small household items to residents. The KGM Society board would also, in tandem, depending on how large the new "complex of care" is to be evaluate their other short- to medium-term rental houses and either maintain, update or sell some or all of them. :)

Cheers,
Doug


Could and should but these people at KGM (and others) don't have your vision.

Happy to let drifters kick their carts all over the streets of downtown followed by a trail of bodily fluids and puke.
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Re: Gospel Mission location - again.

Postby WalterWhite » Oct 6th, 2017, 6:05 pm

I would like to think, and hope - that a prime piece of real estate on Harvey Ave. being the entryway to Kelowma could be put to much better use when finally resolved than simply an updated version of East Hastings.

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Re: Gospel Mission location - again.

Postby GordonH » Oct 6th, 2017, 6:14 pm

Typical no one wants the Mission anywhere near there neighbourhood, or in and around the downtown core.
Good that they already have a location.

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Re: Gospel Mission location - again.

Postby WalterWhite » Oct 6th, 2017, 6:52 pm

GordonH wrote:Typical no one wants the Mission anywhere near there neighbourhood, or in and around the downtown core.
Good that they already have a location.


Of course no one wants it - who would? I'm sure you certainly wouldn't want it next to your property either Gordon. The city has been touting revitalization of the downtown for decades - not much has happened aside from some splashy light standards and bike racks. The rest has been left the transients and homeless in creating our very own Skid Row. Interesting how the real revitalization has occurred farther away from the downtown core (and KGM) in what is now affectionately referred to as the "Arts district". Gentrification. South Park (I know many won't know what that is) did what is arguably some of their best work in satirizing the trend of gentrification. Remarkably even having a name for one project that is very similar to Kelowna's Sopa Square in SodaSopa. It's eerily uncanny watching the applicable episodes and the unmistakable resemblance to what's been going on in Kelowna. One would almost think Trey Parker and Matt Stone have visited Kelowna before.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l242Sj26k8M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7Dtn5_F3Us

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yha-0PgmbY

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Re: Gospel Mission location - again.

Postby JayByrd » Oct 6th, 2017, 11:29 pm

WalterWhite wrote:
No different than relocating any business. The problem is having the clientele relocate. I like the idea of it locating out next to the welfare offices (didn't know that's where they were) being a more commercial/semi-industrial area away from your typical shoppers. Of course, that also removes a large source of revenue for the KGM clientele that engage in panhandling.


It isn't different, but when a business moves, it's because they choose to do so. Why would the Mission move from where it is now? They are where the people they serve can access them. I'm sure those who manage KGM regret the problems their patrons cause, but the whole point of what they do is that they serve those in need, without judgment of how they live or what they do.

I've never heard a single word about KGM wanting or looking for a new location.
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Re: Gospel Mission location - again.

Postby the truth » Oct 7th, 2017, 6:30 am

they regret the problem their patons cause you say,do you have and proof of this :135: i would love to see it
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Re: Gospel Mission location - again.

Postby KelownaCrackinCrew » Oct 7th, 2017, 6:45 am

We want to shove the homeless away from the public's eye to make our city look better, that's all it is....funny thing is tourists don't give two craps how Leon looks when they come to town, because I am sure where they are coming from it's much worse. The "homeless" are not the problem, it's the government not taking of the mentally ill that is the problem, the rest we can deal with.

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Re: Gospel Mission location - again.

Postby forumdoug » Oct 7th, 2017, 8:32 am

WalterWhite wrote:I would like to think, and hope - that a prime piece of real estate on Harvey Ave. being the entryway to Kelowma could be put to much better use when finally resolved than simply an updated version of East Hastings.


With respect, I think if the property is appropriately beautified with landscaping, buffering, curbing, a copious number of outdoor benches and even "concrete cubes" on which can sit, comfortably, 2-4 people on them (similar to the ones at Queensway transit exchange), as well as surveillance cameras to discourage illegal activity, as well as the fact that there are now people with places of their own, common areas (indoor and outdoor) in which to congregate, you will see a lot more respect for the property. It's all about giving people a small space (can be as little as 200 square feet) in which to live, to call their own and you'll see a greater sense of pride. I showcase the Willowbridge and Cardington Arms residential supporting housing and/or treatment centres as great examples of this. :)

Further, it's got to be on or near the highway for the Rapid Bus Transit Line (i.e., orange highlighting), or near a Frequent Transit Route (i.e., blue highlighting in the Rider's Guide and Route Maps, so, basically, Harvey Ave/Highway 97, Gordon Drive, Highway 33, Glenmore Drive, Springfield Rd, Enterprise Way (likely out as it's already over-used and too congested) or Dickson Ave/Sutherland Ave. Pandosy St./Lakeshore Rd. are other possibilities. The closer to a "central core," either downtown, midtown (i.e., Orchard Park/Landmark/Spall Road areas) or uptown (i.e., South Pandosy), the better, so Rutland would be less desired. Central Glenmore, in or around Glenmore & Summit would be OK but out by or past Valley & Glenmore, not so much. Dilworth is out of the question as no frequent/rapid transit service; there's barely any local transit service. Out past UBCO is too far away.

And, I don't think KGM would be opposed to such a move. I think it'd make a lot of sense and I'm sure they'd agree! :)

This is just one possible area. Other area(s) I've considered include:
  • former Ponderosa Motel site, currently overgrown with weeds and boarded up (advantage(s): already has pedestrian overpass, close to many amenities and Rapid Bus Transit Line; disadvantage(s): could be the site of either a future supportive housing/treatment centre or additional affordable housing for a particular demographic)
  • have the City of Kelowna or BC Housing approach the Jim Pattison Broadcast Group with a full & fair offer for the property at Cook & Lakeshore that currently house its broadcast studios & administrative offices (i.e., Q103 and Power 104), which it could either move to leased premises elsewhere within the copious numbers of office and retail spaces cropping up or buy their own new property with the proceeds (advantage(s): close to #1 and #8 Frequent Transit Routes; disadvantage(s): none)
  • have BC Housing, since the City of West Kelowna likely would not nor could it likely afford to as it's nearly bankrupt without a much-needed and badly overdue property tax increase and/or significant job cuts to its administrative and senior management staff, approach the fairly new owners of the often empty Super 8 Motel to convert the motel in to short-term studio, 1- and 2-bedroom accommodations and then a second building, to be constructed and financed by KGM, built adjacent to it on vacant weed-infested, fallow land (advantage(s): close to Boucherie Mountain Transit Exchange and Rapid Bus Transit Line, plenty of wide open space and lower land acquisition costs); disadvantage(s) no grocery store nearby within walking distance, likely would require pedestrian overpass but that'd also benefit all residents of West Kelowna/Peachland). The KGM would then rename itself the Central Okanagan Gospel Mission Society and it would likely want to retain its Rutland thrift store.

Cheers,
Doug
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Re: Gospel Mission location - again.

Postby the truth » Oct 7th, 2017, 8:44 am

i agree with the ponderosa motel location,move kgm their or even freedoms door that they are putting in rutland
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Re: Gospel Mission location - again.

Postby forumdoug » Oct 7th, 2017, 9:04 am

the truth wrote:i agree with the ponderosa motel location,move kgm their or even freedoms door that they are putting in rutland


Freedom's Door is a separate facility and the McCurdy Road and Rutland Road North location is, while not my first choice, still an equally great location that will revitalize the area. I'm just surprised the Knights of Columbus wanted to sell it but I guess they're going to be getting a small unit within the main floor for their club's hall, which makes sense and frees them of facility management headaches. :)

Why not the Super 8 Motel site in West Kelowna? It's continuing to run up likely operating losses, after having been freed of debts by a previous bankruptcy under previous management. :)

Cheers,
Doug
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Re: Gospel Mission location - again.

Postby WalterWhite » Oct 7th, 2017, 9:48 am

Lots of great ideas/suggestions - but who pays for it? Private enterprise won't touch the issue with a ten foot pole as there's practically zero ROI. No municipalities, nor the province or feds has funds to put towards the issue - and no one wants to pay more taxes to fund housing and care for a segment of society that's been looked down on since the dawn of haves vs. have nots. Look 40 minutes north to Vernon and the gong show going on there with newly permitted homeless camps now creating (big surprise) further conflict with the public, bylaw and law enforcement:

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#208600

The areas encompassing the KGM as mentioned earlier were front and center in the city's plans to revitalize the downtown - what happened to those plans - and what was the anticipated manner the KGM was to be dealt with then?

Maybe it's time to put pressure on the many church groups in Kelowna to come together and fund such a program - lord knows they certainly seem to have the money to do so - pun intended. Property for the endeavor could be treated the same way as the rest of the church properties and be tax-free. The main basis of the KGM is to provide support and help to better their fellow man(woman) with a heavy emphasis on religion.

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Re: Gospel Mission location - again.

Postby the truth » Oct 7th, 2017, 9:53 am

forumdoug wrote:
the truth wrote:i agree with the ponderosa motel location,move kgm their or even freedoms door that they are putting in rutland


Freedom's Door is a separate facility and the McCurdy Road and Rutland Road North location is, while not my first choice, still an equally great location that will revitalize the area. I'm just surprised the Knights of Columbus wanted to sell it but I guess they're going to be getting a small unit within the main floor for their club's hall, which makes sense and frees them of facility management headaches. :)

Why not the Super 8 Motel site in West Kelowna? It's continuing to run up likely operating losses, after having been freed of debts by a previous bankruptcy under previous management. :)

Cheers,
Doug


are you saying freedoms door in going to revitalize that area of rutland --how-- :135:
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Re: Gospel Mission location - again.

Postby WalterWhite » Oct 7th, 2017, 10:00 am

Bman hits the nail on the head in the Freedom's Door thread:

posting.php?mode=quote&f=23&p=2246093

Bman wrote:Smithwicks intent in this is profit.
It's a great gig.
Free donated land and 9 million dollars of donated money to build a building with 50 tiny apartments in it.
180 grand a door for tiny suites that likely won't be much more than 400 sq ft each.
450 bucks a square foot.
50 units. Almost guaranteed 100% occupancy.
On your tax dollar.
Didn't cost him a cent.

I wonder when the charity leases him a new Bentley.

And it's all tax free.

That 9 million was more than enough to grease a few palms and make sure it happens.

If people started opening their eyes they'll see that there's really good money in societies no mind people having addictions.


So - why can't they do the same for the homeless?

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Re: Gospel Mission location - again.

Postby forumdoug » Oct 7th, 2017, 10:32 am

the truth wrote:are you saying freedoms door in going to revitalize that area of rutland --how-- :135:


Yes, that's exactly what I am saying. To answer the second question, that's easy. It's a new residential, in-patient treatment facility ("wet" facilities are better, in my opinion but any will do!) and buffering, landscaping, curbing, sidewalks, fencing and indoor & outdoor common areas will be added. It will help to restore those residents' sense of confidence and purpose! Example: Cardington Arms on St. Paul St. :)

Cheers,
Doug
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