Just like fast food workers

Just like fast food workers

Postby the truth » Oct 5th, 2017, 9:07 pm

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#208483 i expect nothing less from most kelowna businesses always looking to f :swear: over there employees , then these businesses will come on the news saying they need a temporary foreigin worker program to fill there positions because no one in this town wants to work

bs
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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby stuphoto » Oct 6th, 2017, 1:46 am

glad that I am not the only one tired of the employeers attitudes around here.

There is a good chance I will be returning to Alberta for year round full time work because of this sort of thing next year.

The sad thing is, as a professional driver I would not only be earning 35+ % more but I would be given more time off to spend at home.
The reason why, because my employer ( I still work for him every winter, so he is still my employeer ) knows that a happy worker is a good worker.

I wish they would learn that around here.

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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby the truth » Oct 6th, 2017, 8:41 am

they never will in this town for most not all it's about max profit and f :cuss: the employee
Last edited by the truth on Oct 8th, 2017, 7:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby my5cents » Oct 6th, 2017, 9:40 am

Another question should be directed at the city of Kelowna.

What criteria to they place on the salaries for the jail guards ?

The Corp of Commissionaires bids for the contract and wins, then increases their profits by paying low wages.

Perhaps the contract should have minimum wages and working conditions attached to the criteria for bidders, or instead of contracting out, make the job a civic job. Since it is.

The article states that the Commissionaires doing guard duty get paid $16 an hour. The article goes on to say that the amount the Kelowna guards are paid is in the neighborhood of $15 less an hour than comparable city jail staff.

It wouldn't be very hard to calculate, the number of staff required per shift by the contract plus a percentage for employee benefits times the days in a year, and see how much is available for wages. If that amount can't be realized by the guards at $30/$31 an hour, the city knows the guards aren't being paid well.

Gotta love contracting out. The City <with a blank look> "gee we didn't know".
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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby gman313 » Oct 6th, 2017, 9:49 am

my5cents wrote:Another question should be directed at the city of Kelowna.

What criteria to they place on the salaries for the jail guards ?

The Corp of Commissionaires bids for the contract and wins, then increases their profits by paying low wages.

Perhaps the contract should have minimum wages and working conditions attached to the criteria for bidders, or instead of contracting out, make the job a civic job. Since it is.

The article states that the Commissionaires doing guard duty get paid $16 an hour. The article goes on to say that the amount the Kelowna guards are paid is in the neighborhood of $15 less an hour than comparable city jail staff.

It wouldn't be very hard to calculate, the number of staff required per shift by the contract plus a percentage for employee benefits times the days in a year, and see how much is available for wages. If that amount can't be realized by the guards at $30/$31 an hour, the city knows the guards aren't being paid well.

Gotta love contracting out. The City <with a blank look> "gee we didn't know".


Challenge is most bids posted on BC Bid and municipal websites all put huge weight into cost. Wages on most contracts are a significant percentage of overall cost.

So, the obvious question then becomes, how do we change public contracts to strike a balance between being cost effective and paying fair, liveable wages to workers? And oh ya, probably without tax increase because everyone will whine about that.
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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby youjustcomplain » Oct 6th, 2017, 11:25 am

the truth wrote:they never will in this town for most not all it's about max profit and f :cuss: they employee


Do you think paying employee's a poor wage is unique to this town? You're wrong if you do. I've lived in 6 different cities and had crappy jobs in each of them, including Kelowna. That said, I work in Kelowna now for two different employers and I'm paid well and one and very fairly at the other. I can't complain.

As far as I'm concerned though, if an entry level position isn't paid very well, there will be a high turnover rate of staff. This costs the business. If they're ok with that, and they can continue to attract staff, then what is the problem? As soon as they can't attract staff, things will change. It will mean the wages are too low, or the work too hard, or something that will need to change. If they go with TFW, it's because locals won't do the job and that could be due to a lack of workers, or maybe workers who just don't want the jobs for the pay offered. So be it. Bring in the TFW. And don't complain that you can't find a job, because there are jobs out there; they just don't pay all that well.

(I started my reply to you "the truth", but then I started ranting... sorry, only the first part was a reply to you.)
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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby my5cents » Oct 6th, 2017, 11:36 am

gman313 wrote:Challenge is most bids posted on BC Bid and municipal websites all put huge weight into cost. Wages on most contracts are a significant percentage of overall cost.

So, the obvious question then becomes, how do we change public contracts to strike a balance between being cost effective and paying fair, liveable wages to workers? And oh ya, probably without tax increase because everyone will whine about that.

Yes costs are important. But, it's not hard to figure out annually how many person shifts it will take to fill the guard positions, considering the criteria of the contract.

I guess the question is, was the bid in line with other bidders and the Corp of Commissionaires are taking way too much for profit, or was the bid so low that a conscientious city would have/should have rejected the low bid because the bid would have indicated a poverty wage that would cost the city in the end with staffing problems.

It's one thing for an employer to pay poverty wages and then suffer the consequences of employee turn over and lack of quality, directly verses a city contracting out a duty and being victimized by the same turn overs and poor employee quality.

Many contracts are not given to the lowest bidder when the bid appears to be too low to complete the job properly.
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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby WalterWhite » Oct 6th, 2017, 4:02 pm

Union rep says Kelowna is paying almost 50% less than other comparable cities such as Kamloops. Would be curious to see if that's true, and if so - how can there be such a difference in wage costs for doing what should be pretty much the same job? I do have to agree with the union rep, that it's rather ironic for the Commissionaires to be lobbying to have the guards declared an essential service when they're being paid minimum wage.
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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby my5cents » Oct 6th, 2017, 4:25 pm

WalterWhite wrote:Union rep says Kelowna is paying almost 50% less than other comparable cities such as Kamloops. Would be curious to see if that's true, and if so - how can there be such a difference in wage costs for doing what should be pretty much the same job? I do have to agree with the union rep, that it's rather ironic for the Commissionaires to be lobbying to have the guards declared an essential service when they're being paid minimum wage.


Considering ambulance paramedics were turned down as an essential service.
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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby just popping in » Oct 6th, 2017, 4:39 pm

City was "hands off" on the transit dispute also, however, finally "stepped" in.
This is a different situation because it doesn't affect the general public so, unfortunately, (IMO) they will be "hands off".
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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby my5cents » Oct 6th, 2017, 4:43 pm

just popping in wrote:City was "hands off" on the transit dispute also, however, finally "stepped" in.
This is a different situation because it doesn't affect the general public so, unfortunately, (IMO) they will be "hands off".

If in error someone dangerous gets out of their jail, that sorta would affect the general public.
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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby just popping in » Oct 6th, 2017, 4:49 pm

my5cents wrote:If in error someone dangerous gets out of their jail, that sorta would affect the general public.


Escape from the brand spanking new RCMP facilities?
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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby Mark5 » Oct 6th, 2017, 8:06 pm

The Commissionaires at one time consisted mostly of former military service personnel or ex police. People who had government pensions and wanted to work to make extra money. So receiving a smaller wage was not that important to them as someone who did not get a pension. While I do believe they still do hire ex military, not everyone who works there is ex military or police, as far as I know.
Most security companies do not pay that well. Management takes the lions share of the contract money and pay their guards low wages.
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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby stuphoto » Oct 7th, 2017, 7:28 am

I was speaking to a guard from Grand Forks several years ago and was told that In some smaller cities they call in the guards when their needed, rather than having them on full time.
Keeping that in mind, it may be tough to calculate how much profit the Commisionairies are actually making. Even if they have staff watching the cells 24 / 7 they may still need extra guards at times.

The prisoners breaking out of a new jail is pretty much the least of their concern.
The guards are more there to stop the fights and contact the medics if someones drunk teenager stops breathing while sobering up.
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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby forumdoug » Oct 7th, 2017, 10:15 am

I don't think $15-19 per hour is "a poor wage" especially given the work required, nor do I appreciate Mr. Mossman's negative connotation that he is making about "fast food workers." Why do they not deserve $15-19 per hour? Spoken like a true self-serving local union boss, collecting a salary or stipend plus expense reimbursements on top of his generous salary and benefits package from his "day job" with the City of Kelowna. :(

One has to remember the Commissionaires employees are among the highest paid of the private security contractors if that $15-19 per hour pay scale is to be confirmed when you combine company-matching group RRSP and/or defined contribution pension plan contributions and health & dental plan benefits. I thought it was foolish when they voted to unionize as private security contracts are among the most precarious. Let's say they're successful in the wage and benefit increases; what's stopping Securiguard or Paladin from under-cutting them at contract renewal time? Further, because of that, Commissionaires would never agree to mandatory 6- to 12-month severance packages, either. So, at best, all employees would get is 8 weeks paid severance (the limit to the mandatory minimum severance amount in B.C.), EI eligibility and the option to apply for a job with the new jail guard contractor. Worse stil, severance agreements might claw back some of that severance if a new job is found within a certain period of time. :(

Plus, have you looked at their job descriptions? At most, they appear to monitor things from a control room with surveillance camera monitors and the like and then serve prepared meals (does Hungry Hound still have that contract?) through a slot in, I'm guessing, a heavy reinforced steel door? If prisoner escorts are required, the job descriptions clearly state that it would be under the supervision of and jointly with an RCMP member. :(

I think they should ask for a modest wage increase, i.e. $0.25 per hour in each year with top-ups in line with future minimum wage increases, and a "shift premium" of at least $2.00 per hour for graveyard shifts but that's about it.

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