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Just like fast food workers

Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby forumdoug » Oct 8th, 2017, 5:05 pm

exFarmerS wrote:I always intensely dislike this type of personal attack, Doug. Mossman is a full time union president on leave from his day job. If we broke down his pay vs hours worked, I suspect he makes a lot less an hour than you (when you're working). Not everyone with a decent paying job and benefits is ripping you off or deserves your disdain.


Whatever. It wasn't a "personal attack," as you suggest, but merely stating facts. I appreciate the correction that he is on leave from his regular position with the City while serving as union president so he's not drawing two salaries, though I have to ask, is his monthly pension benefit continuing to accrue while on leave? At any rate, regardless if a union president draws one or two salaries, the fact remains: it's an incredibly self-serving position full of institutional bias for the workers the union represents. :)

Cheers,
Doug

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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby al56kelman » Oct 8th, 2017, 5:23 pm

I wonder if the BC Sheriffs make more than jail guards working for the commissioners? And if that's the case, I'll suggest to all the jail guard workers, go apply to be a sheriff and let the commissioners staff the jail cells with fast food workers.
https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#208661

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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby stuphoto » Oct 8th, 2017, 5:47 pm

al56kelman wrote:I wonder if the BC Sheriffs make more than jail guards working for the commissioners? And if that's the case, I'll suggest to all the jail guard workers, go apply to be a sheriff and let the commissioners staff the jail cells with fast food workers.
https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#208661

I can see it now.
Image

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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby ferri » Oct 8th, 2017, 6:29 pm

:135: :topic:
“When someone is nasty or treats you poorly, don't take it personally. It says nothing about you, but a lot about them.” ― Michael Josephson

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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby my5cents » Oct 8th, 2017, 7:25 pm

al56kelman wrote:I wonder if the BC Sheriffs make more than jail guards working for the commissioners? And if that's the case, I'll suggest to all the jail guard workers, go apply to be a sheriff and let the commissioners staff the jail cells with fast food workers.

I'm pretty sure the initial qualification to become a Sheriff is more than that to become a Commissionaire, just like the qualifications to become a police officer is more than a Sheriff.

Sheriffs make in the $30 range and yes there is a big shortage.

Good old contracting out. The hospitals wouldn't dare pay their laundry staff a poverty wage, but contract that job out and who cares how little, and with what little benefits the workers get.

The City of Kelowna wouldn't dare pay their jail guard staff a poverty wage, but contract the job out and who cares.

"Great" way to keep your hands clean and retain deniability.

Coupled with the feces wage, I wonder what, if any, benefits the Commissionaires get ?
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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby Rider59 » Oct 9th, 2017, 5:16 am

my5cents wrote:I'm pretty sure the initial qualification to become a Sheriff is more than that to become a Commissionaire, just like the qualifications to become a police officer is more than a Sheriff.

Sheriffs make in the $30 range and yes there is a big shortage.

Good old contracting out. The hospitals wouldn't dare pay their laundry staff a poverty wage, but contract that job out and who cares how little, and with what little benefits the workers get.

The City of Kelowna wouldn't dare pay their jail guard staff a poverty wage, but contract the job out and who cares.

"Great" way to keep your hands clean and retain deniability.

Coupled with the feces wage, I wonder what, if any, benefits the Commissionaires get ?


Pretty sure that wages and benefits are spelled out in the job offer. No one forces anyone to take/keep these jobs.

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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby my5cents » Oct 9th, 2017, 8:21 am

I earlier mentioned that Sheriffs earn around 30 bucks an hour and that there is a shortage. Eby just stated the reason for the shortage is the low wages for Sheriffs.

Says a lot about the Commissionaire wages doesn’t it ?

Yes, Rider58 (I reduced your wage) they don’t have to take the job. I know, let’s cut all wages and see how little we can get away with paying these desperate schmoes.
Last edited by my5cents on Oct 9th, 2017, 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby MAPearce » Oct 9th, 2017, 8:27 am

maryjane48 wrote:that was my whole point . to shed light on the fact all work should be paid at the least a living wage . but some on here like to pick and choose . :130: my work is done in this thread . some of you consdier yourself maryjane enlightened


How much dope does it take to be "maryjane enlightened" ?

Glad you figured out that "spell check " thing tho..
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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby MAPearce » Oct 9th, 2017, 8:31 am

I'm pretty sure the initial qualification to become a Sheriff is more than that to become a Commissionaire, just like the qualifications to become a police officer is more than a Sheriff.


Yeup.... Gotta wonder how many hours Commisionaires spent at the Justice Institute studying ..
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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby my5cents » Oct 9th, 2017, 8:54 am

MAPearce wrote:Yeup.... Gotta wonder how many hours Commisionaires spent at the Justice Institute studying ..


That, I is a very good question.

My knee jerk reaction is zero, but I would think there would be some requirement.

If they are required to go there for training, no doubt one of the lowest paid in the Institite, and I’m including the cleaning staff.
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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby forumdoug » Oct 9th, 2017, 9:59 am

ferri wrote::135: :topic:


Great point, ferri, but I have to admit I chuckled at "cowboy Spongepants". ;)

Cheers,
Doug
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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby forumdoug » Oct 9th, 2017, 10:02 am

my5cents wrote:That, I is a very good question.

My knee jerk reaction is zero, but I would think there would be some requirement.

If they are required to go there for training, no doubt one of the lowest paid in the Institite, and I’m including the cleaning staff.


Knee jerk reactions are often, though not always, correct. In this case, yours is accurate. :)

They take a company-sponsored, company-provided training course for 1-2 days. It's basically a glorified OFA Level 1 first aid attendant with some training in conflict resolution, as I understand it. :)

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Doug
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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby MAPearce » Oct 9th, 2017, 10:19 am

my5cents wrote:
MAPearce wrote:Yeup.... Gotta wonder how many hours Commisionaires spent at the Justice Institute studying ..


That, I is a very good question.

My knee jerk reaction is zero, but I would think there would be some requirement.

If they are required to go there for training, no doubt one of the lowest paid in the Institite, and I’m including the cleaning staff.


I don't think there is any requirement for "Rent a Cops" other than that "Basic Security Training " course..

At least Fast food workers have "food safe" and the respective corporate training...
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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby my5cents » Oct 9th, 2017, 11:46 am

Obviously there is nothing that can be done, it's impossible..... well until something horrible happens, a guard or prisoner is hurt or a prisoner escapes and hurts a citizen.

Then we'll see action...
City of Kelowna : "What ! they didn't have full training at the JI !!! ??? We had no idea !"

I can see how they wouldn't have a clue about how untrained/qualified the Commissionaires are, seeing that they are earning the huge wage of $15 and hour.

Granted these under paid Commissionaires are employed in Kelowna, but you'd think they'd be looking at, if not Sheriff jobs locally, there's a brand new prison in Oliver.
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Re: Just like fast food workers

Postby forumdoug » Oct 9th, 2017, 11:54 am

my5cents wrote:Obviously there is nothing that can be done, it's impossible..... well until something horrible happens, a guard or prisoner is hurt or a prisoner escapes and hurts a citizen.

Then we'll see action...
City of Kelowna : "What ! they didn't have full training at the JI !!! ??? We had no idea !"

I can see how they wouldn't have a clue about how untrained/qualified the Commissionaires are, seeing that they are earning the huge wage of $15 and hour.

Granted these under paid Commissionaires are employed in Kelowna, but you'd think they'd be looking at, if not Sheriff jobs locally, there's a brand new prison in Oliver.


Agreed, this job is meant to be a "stepping stone job," with frequent turnover, hence the lower pay scale. Moreover, escorting prisoners to and from cell block area within the Kelowna RCMP detachment, as I understand Commissionaires' job descriptions that are publicly available, is done alongside a trained RCMP member. So, really, I don't see why this job should require any higher skills, educational requirements and, accordingly, pay than any other private security company job? Now, should all private security companies pay more? Probably, yes, but market forces will dictate that and simply increasing pay and benefits wildly will make Commissionaires uncompetitive at contract renewal time (and maybe it's time for a different company to have the contract; change is good, much like maybe it's time Securiguard or Paladin Security take over the Kelowna Parking contract from Impark for awhile) and likely be outbid. That's why I think it was foolish for the employees to unionize in a highly competitive environment. They've just basically given up part of their salaries to union dues. :(

Working with the BC Sheriff's Service or with BC Corrections would be natural "next steps," as would joining the Kelowna RCMP or municipal or transit police department outside of Kelowna for any Commissionaires employee. Commissionaires does employ retired police officers but again, here the retired police or military officer is likely looking for a "side job" to supplement their pension benefits from the police service or military. :)

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Doug
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