47063
45615

Climate Change Lip Service

Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby Bman » Nov 7th, 2017, 7:12 am

Anonymous123 wrote:
lesliepaul wrote:11 months to go and here's hoping this complete moron of a mayor is gone. Hey "Bobble-Head" Basran.............when are you going to stand in front of the "Sails" this time to let all of Kelowna know your plans to run for your best pay cheque ever..........uhhhhh..........I mean mayor again.


Best paycheque? The Mayor gets about $91,500.00 per year. City manager gets over $250,000.00.

Don't go leading yourself to believe that's all he gets tho.
His vote on council can be very valuable.
Is the world getting stupider, or is it just getting easier for stupid people to have their thoughts heard?
User avatar
Bman
Mindquad
 
Posts: 27273
Likes: 10437 posts
Liked in: 8119 posts
Joined: Mar 1st, 2008, 10:05 am
Location: Surrey-By-The-Lake

Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby Anonymous123 » Nov 7th, 2017, 7:31 am

lesliepaul wrote:11 months to go and here's hoping this complete moron of a mayor is gone. Hey "Bobble-Head" Basran.............when are you going to stand in front of the "Sails" this time to let all of Kelowna know your plans to run for your best pay cheque ever..........uhhhhh..........I mean mayor again.


Anonymous123 wrote:Best paycheque? The Mayor gets about $91,500.00 per year. City manager gets over $250,000.00.

Bman wrote:Don't go leading yourself to believe that's all he gets tho.
His vote on council can be very valuable.


I get that, I've been tracking the Farm Market situation for a while, but we are talking paycheque here.
We See
We Judge
User avatar
Anonymous123
Grand Pooh-bah
 
Posts: 2043
Likes: 1385 posts
Liked in: 917 posts
Joined: Feb 8th, 2013, 4:02 pm
Location: The fine line between reality and fantasy

Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby WalterWhite » Nov 7th, 2017, 7:51 am

StraitTalk wrote:If there's anywhere that the people Colin is talking about will show up, it's castanet - and don't I know it.. posts like this are why I come here in the first place!

You can call it lip service if you disagree but the man is taking a pretty serious risk by taking this stance. That's called leadership by the way. It's not his fault the traffic problem is where it is and no single mayor is going to fix it.

Did it ever occur to you and the Kool-Aid drinking staff at you disposal, that vehicles able to get from point A to B in the least amount of time results in efficient vehicle use actually reducing the amount of emissions?


Really solid, enlightening stuff there. Better get that bombshell down to the boys in planning right away.

What's better for the environment - a vehicle that takes 15 minutes travelling at a reasonably constant speed relative to the speed limit, or a vehicle taking 4-5 times longer to reach the same destination because of constant stoppages and delays resulting in extended time idling? Multiply it by the tens of thousands of vehicles on Kelowna streets every day.


I really like how you tee'd that up for yourself. What Colin said, almost literally, was that he is amazed at the amount of people that will complain about traffic with no regard for the effect additional traffic has, and the benefits of building less roads and investing in alternatives. He's calling people out for their double standards and ignorance on the issue of climate change.

Your post made me physically ill. It seems you are so hell-bent on hating this man that you came here to post quite possibly some of the weakest, uneducated drivel I've read in ages.

lightspeed wrote:The anti car envirofascists drive me nuts. Beardy minimum wage goofs cycling around town in sandals planning the future of society in a car free, endless free granola paradise.


Nope I lied, this guy takes it.


Leadership??? Hahahahaha! Sorry I put you off your Cheerios this morning Mr. Perfect. Maybe after you’re finished worshipping the porcelain god you can offer alternative commentary rather than repeating the same drivel Basran took such a “serious risk in taking this stance” on. What a pile of horse droppings. “Build less roads and invest in alternatives”. I don’t think it’s my drivel that’s making you ill - you’ve clearly drank too much of Basran’s Kool-Aid.
Last edited by WalterWhite on Nov 7th, 2017, 9:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

lightspeed likes this post.
WalterWhite
Übergod
 
Posts: 1160
Likes: 904 posts
Liked in: 1244 posts
Joined: Jan 31st, 2017, 3:56 pm

Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby techrtr » Nov 7th, 2017, 8:38 am

Is Basran stupid? He's frustrated that residents want better roads and traffic flow in spite of the extreme weather events that the valley has been experiencing of late. Yet, the city keeps allowing these high density development projects all over the place that are obviously going to cause traffic problems. What does he think, everyone in Kelowna is retired and rarely has to go anywhere or has the time to spend two hours taking the bus 4 kilometers?
Last edited by techrtr on Nov 7th, 2017, 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

2 people like this post.
techrtr
Generalissimo Postalot
 
Posts: 758
Likes: 56 posts
Liked in: 650 posts
Joined: Jul 5th, 2005, 6:47 am

Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby lightspeed » Nov 7th, 2017, 8:43 am

techrtr wrote:Is Basran stupid? He's frustrated that residents want better roads and traffic flow in spite of the extreme weather events that the valley has been experiencing of late. Yet, the city keeps allowing these high density development projects all over the place that are obviously going cause traffic problems. What does he think, everyone in Kelowna is retired and rarely has to go anywhere or has the time to spend two hours taking the bus 4 kilometers?


Part of the problem is the dynamic that so many people are retired, many seem to garner their income from nefarious means, there are thousands more students at UBCO and as a result, we have so much more traffic on the roads all day long. People aimlessly ambling around with nothing much more to do than to find useless vacuous things to keep them occupied day long. We don't get "normal" commuting traffic patterns.
"Why does everyone in Kelowna act like they're in Hollywood"

A hermit; a recluse; one of the Okanagan "hill people"
User avatar
lightspeed
Grand Pooh-bah
 
Posts: 2260
Likes: 3535 posts
Liked in: 1644 posts
Joined: Jan 13th, 2016, 9:58 am
Location: Vulgaria

Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby Old Techie » Nov 7th, 2017, 9:35 am

Biggest part of the problem is City of Kelowna planners and bureaucrats lack the intelligence to not put the cart before the horse so to speak.

They've allowed and approved development all over the south slopes in the Kettle Valley area, yet ignored the already existing need to allow for current traffic volume to move efficiently, and continue to rubber stamp building permits.

Instead of addressing the situation they implement stupid measures such as the traffic circle at Colleen Road, as if that's going to somehow magically change anything.

There is a long term plan to put a bridge across the canyon up there which would allow for another north south artery which is desperately needed, but it is a long term plan, whereas it should have been one of the first things done before they even opened up the area to so much building, or before in their infinite wisdom they decided to spend money on extending Gordon Drive, up a steep hill no less, so that they could channel traffic through what was once a quiet little residential neighborhood that people now fear for their children's lives in.

Then again what can you expect from a gang of inept twits that at one point I recall felt it was perfectly acceptable to schedule construction on Gordon, Richter, and Benvoulin at the same time. It's almost as if someone needs to constantly remind them about the layout of city streets, and how many there are running in a north/south or east/west direction.
"Fools multiply when wise men are silent!" - Nelson Mandela

3 people like this post.
User avatar
Old Techie
Grand Pooh-bah
 
Posts: 2172
Likes: 1777 posts
Liked in: 2949 posts
Joined: Apr 27th, 2013, 2:47 pm

Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby AlienSoldier » Nov 7th, 2017, 9:48 am

I hate to say it buy the Mayor is right. Just watch as the new highway lanes are filled up within a year or two of being built. Its a common theme that plays out across North America. You build out the highways, people move farther away requiring more vehicles and thus the highway gets gridlocked. You see it in every major city.

The Mayor could lead by example however. He could develop a transportation plan, create "green zones" so that buildings don't expand ever outwards. Connect bike lanes across Kelowna and even toll the bridge if need be.

People's habits can be changed, but a monetary factor helps adjust it. A good example of this is the plastic bag tax in most cities. Stores saw bag use drop by 70% once the 5 cents were added.

7 people like this post.
AlienSoldier
 
Posts: 35
Likes: 2 posts
Liked in: 25 posts
Joined: Oct 30th, 2017, 10:53 am

Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby Old Techie » Nov 7th, 2017, 10:00 am

AlienSoldier wrote:I hate to say it buy the Mayor is right. Just watch as the new highway lanes are filled up within a year or two of being built. Its a common theme that plays out across North America. You build out the highways, people move farther away requiring more vehicles and thus the highway gets gridlocked. You see it in every major city.

The Mayor could lead by example however. He could develop a transportation plan, create "green zones" so that buildings don't expand ever outwards. Connect bike lanes across Kelowna and even toll the bridge if need be.

People's habits can be changed, but a monetary factor helps adjust it. A good example of this is the plastic bag tax in most cities. Stores saw bag use drop by 70% once the 5 cents were added.


If you want people to embrace alternatives then they have to have reliable alternative transportation, and that's something this town simply does not have.

Sure bus service has improved along the Hwy 97 corridor, but Kelowna is a very spread out community and there are many areas where the service is terrible thus people resort to using their cars.

There have been times that service was tried in certain residential areas, but I don't think it was given enough time to be viewed as an alternative so decision makers stopped the routes due to lack of ridership. I believe part of the problem also though was that when service is provided on any route, they must take into consideration the needs of the potential users, particularly insofar as service hours goes, as well as days.
"Fools multiply when wise men are silent!" - Nelson Mandela

2 people like this post.
User avatar
Old Techie
Grand Pooh-bah
 
Posts: 2172
Likes: 1777 posts
Liked in: 2949 posts
Joined: Apr 27th, 2013, 2:47 pm

Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby AlienSoldier » Nov 7th, 2017, 10:13 am

Old Techie wrote:
AlienSoldier wrote:I hate to say it buy the Mayor is right. Just watch as the new highway lanes are filled up within a year or two of being built. Its a common theme that plays out across North America. You build out the highways, people move farther away requiring more vehicles and thus the highway gets gridlocked. You see it in every major city.

The Mayor could lead by example however. He could develop a transportation plan, create "green zones" so that buildings don't expand ever outwards. Connect bike lanes across Kelowna and even toll the bridge if need be.

People's habits can be changed, but a monetary factor helps adjust it. A good example of this is the plastic bag tax in most cities. Stores saw bag use drop by 70% once the 5 cents were added.


If you want people to embrace alternatives then they have to have reliable alternative transportation, and that's something this town simply does not have.

Sure bus service has improved along the Hwy 97 corridor, but Kelowna is a very spread out community and there are many areas where the service is terrible thus people resort to using their cars.

There have been times that service was tried in certain residential areas, but I don't think it was given enough time to be viewed as an alternative so decision makers stopped the routes due to lack of ridership. I believe part of the problem also though was that when service is provided on any route, they must take into consideration the needs of the potential users, particularly insofar as service hours goes, as well as days.


I agree, you need to develop to give citizens alternative options. This is the responsibility of the City Planners and Council. I've done this for many major city centers personally and can say that it is fantastic once it is done, but initial buy in from Citizens is always a problem. No one wants to put the money up front or wants an increase in their tax today, to save money in 2 or 4 years if possible.

Like I said in another thread. The City needs light rail service down its main corridor and across the lake. From those hubs you can expand out bus service and wheel trans service. That should help to reduce traffic on the bridge and also in the core area's of Kelowna. Its net benefit is not requiring another bridge for possibly another 25 years if enough people move over to transit.

2 people like this post.
AlienSoldier
 
Posts: 35
Likes: 2 posts
Liked in: 25 posts
Joined: Oct 30th, 2017, 10:53 am

Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby Omnitheo » Nov 7th, 2017, 10:40 am

AlienSoldier wrote:I hate to say it buy the Mayor is right. Just watch as the new highway lanes are filled up within a year or two of being built. Its a common theme that plays out across North America. You build out the highways, people move farther away requiring more vehicles and thus the highway gets gridlocked. You see it in every major city.

The Mayor could lead by example however. He could develop a transportation plan, create "green zones" so that buildings don't expand ever outwards. Connect bike lanes across Kelowna and even toll the bridge if need be.

People's habits can be changed, but a monetary factor helps adjust it. A good example of this is the plastic bag tax in most cities. Stores saw bag use drop by 70% once the 5 cents were added.


Absolutely true. The more lanes you add, the more traffic increases. It may seem counter-intuitive, but this is actually an observable law of urban planning. As new routes are added, traffic will increase to take advantage of it. When it’s easier for someone to drive across town to work, they are more likely to seek work across town. Or drive across town to shop. Look at the toll bridges in Vancouver for example, once the tolls were removed, traffic increased along them now that it is easier for them to do so.

I’ll add a video later that gives some examples of this effect, and ways to avoid it.
"The Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects all Canadians, every one of us, even when it is uncomfortable."
- Justin Trudeau

2 people like this post.
User avatar
Omnitheo
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3294
Likes: 4725 posts
Liked in: 2186 posts
Joined: Jul 19th, 2011, 9:10 am

Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby WalterWhite » Nov 7th, 2017, 11:10 am

Omnitheo wrote:
AlienSoldier wrote:I hate to say it buy the Mayor is right. Just watch as the new highway lanes are filled up within a year or two of being built. Its a common theme that plays out across North America. You build out the highways, people move farther away requiring more vehicles and thus the highway gets gridlocked. You see it in every major city.

The Mayor could lead by example however. He could develop a transportation plan, create "green zones" so that buildings don't expand ever outwards. Connect bike lanes across Kelowna and even toll the bridge if need be.

People's habits can be changed, but a monetary factor helps adjust it. A good example of this is the plastic bag tax in most cities. Stores saw bag use drop by 70% once the 5 cents were added.


Absolutely true. The more lanes you add, the more traffic increases. It may seem counter-intuitive, but this is actually an observable law of urban planning. As new routes are added, traffic will increase to take advantage of it. When it’s easier for someone to drive across town to work, they are more likely to seek work across town. Or drive across town to shop. Look at the toll bridges in Vancouver for example, once the tolls were removed, traffic increased along them now that it is easier for them to do so.

I’ll add a video later that gives some examples of this effect, and ways to avoid it.


True, but what’s being overlooked is these vehicles increasing numbers on a given route aren’t magically appearing out of thin air and increasing the overall numbers on all roads - they’re already there. Commuters will however naturally gravitate to access routes that are most efficient in reaching their destination and avoiding more congested routes unable to handle volumes that provide reasonable flow of traffic.
WalterWhite
Übergod
 
Posts: 1160
Likes: 904 posts
Liked in: 1244 posts
Joined: Jan 31st, 2017, 3:56 pm

Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby Omnitheo » Nov 7th, 2017, 11:40 am

False. Ease of access encourages use. Vehicles not currently on the road will appear on new, or expanded roads.

If you have 2 roads, and increase these to 4 roads, you are not creating 4 half filled roads. Shortly after their implementation, you will have 4 roads just as busy as the two.

This is why we need transportation alternatives. Adding and doubling roads doesn’t decrease traffic, it increases it.

Here is a video that partially explains this:

"The Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects all Canadians, every one of us, even when it is uncomfortable."
- Justin Trudeau

khutchi likes this post.
User avatar
Omnitheo
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3294
Likes: 4725 posts
Liked in: 2186 posts
Joined: Jul 19th, 2011, 9:10 am

Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby StraitTalk » Nov 7th, 2017, 11:43 am

WalterWhite wrote:True, but what’s being overlooked is these vehicles increasing numbers on a given route aren’t magically appearing out of thin air and increasing the overall numbers on all roads - they’re already there. Commuters will however naturally gravitate to access routes that are most efficient in reaching their destination and avoiding more congested routes unable to handle volumes that provide reasonable flow of traffic.


As New York learned early in the 20th century, building more roadways does not solve traffic problems.

3 people like this post.
User avatar
StraitTalk
Lord of the Board
 
Posts: 3547
Likes: 66 posts
Liked in: 266 posts
Joined: May 12th, 2009, 3:54 pm

Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby lesliepaul » Nov 7th, 2017, 12:06 pm

Anonymous123 wrote:
lesliepaul wrote:11 months to go and here's hoping this complete moron of a mayor is gone. Hey "Bobble-Head" Basran.............when are you going to stand in front of the "Sails" this time to let all of Kelowna know your plans to run for your best pay cheque ever..........uhhhhh..........I mean mayor again.


Best paycheque? The Mayor gets about $91,500.00 per year. City manager gets over $250,000.00.


For Basran it IS the most he has made in his life at any job.............he is LAZY and UNEDUCATED and what better job than to be a mouth-piece in low level politics. And yes, City Manager Ron Mattusi is overpaid and continues to get increasingly overpaid year after year. Kelowna will continue down this same path as long as people at city hall are not held accountable for poor decision making and squandering OUR money to satisfy "friends of the mayor". Just look at this city council, three years in and you very rarely hear a word from any of them. Most on council are too busy with their own lives and personal agendas to give a :cuss: about the issues Kelowna has.

I would like to think SOME on our city council are worthy of their positions but at this time a complete evisceration of all of them is required..........many on there have past their "best before date" and the others are too numbingly stupid without a care in the world.

2 people like this post.
lesliepaul
Generalissimo Postalot
 
Posts: 951
Likes: 4 posts
Liked in: 746 posts
Joined: Aug 7th, 2011, 12:56 pm

Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby AlienSoldier » Nov 7th, 2017, 12:48 pm

lesliepaul wrote:
For Basran it IS the most he has made in his life at any job.............he is LAZY and UNEDUCATED and what better job than to be a mouth-piece in low level politics. And yes, City Manager Ron Mattusi is overpaid and continues to get increasingly overpaid year after year. Kelowna will continue down this same path as long as people at city hall are not held accountable for poor decision making and squandering OUR money to satisfy "friends of the mayor". Just look at this city council, three years in and you very rarely hear a word from any of them. Most on council are too busy with their own lives and personal agendas to give a :cuss: about the issues Kelowna has.

I would like to think SOME on our city council are worthy of their positions but at this time a complete evisceration of all of them is required..........many on there have past their "best before date" and the others are too numbingly stupid without a care in the world.


Can you give some examples of where they directly helped in failing Kelowna? I've seen some great things from the Kelowna government (past and present) but do not recall anything directly that ties them to failing Kelowna or its citizens.
AlienSoldier
 
Posts: 35
Likes: 2 posts
Liked in: 25 posts
Joined: Oct 30th, 2017, 10:53 am

PreviousNext

Return to Central Okanagan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: hockey_glenn, jungandre, MAPearce, myforsaleadds, Noisy Boater and 19 guests