Climate Change Lip Service

Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby Omnitheo » Nov 7th, 2017, 12:53 pm

Lazy and uneducated? What do you base this on? Looks like he went to BCIT.
It’s easy to make unfounded comments while hidden behind a veil of anonymity, but I would hazard a guess that he both more educated, and less lazy than you.

I’ve had zero issue with him as our mayor. But if you have a problem with it, then feel free to use your vote in the next municipal election in favour of someone else. Or better yet, run yourself. Show us that strong work ethic and education you deride our current mayor for the lack of.
"The Charter of Rights and Freedoms protects all Canadians, every one of us, even when it is uncomfortable."
- Justin Trudeau

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Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby alanjh595 » Nov 7th, 2017, 12:58 pm

AlienSoldier wrote:Can you give some examples of where they directly helped in failing Kelowna? I've seen some great things from the Kelowna government (past and present) but do not recall anything directly that ties them to failing Kelowna or its citizens.


I am sure glad the dodged this bullet.
https://globalnews.ca/news/1670839/kelo ... ng-canals/
Though, this idea may have cleaned out the Leon issues.

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Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby jof123ca » Nov 7th, 2017, 1:02 pm

Whats everyone complaining about. They put in an awesome HOV lane...

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Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby alanjh595 » Nov 7th, 2017, 1:08 pm

jof123ca wrote:Whats everyone complaining about. They put in an awesome HOV lane...


And embellished them with $91,000 worth if special signage to tell everyone that it is between 7AM and 7PM.
https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/1 ... -to-ignore
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Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby WalterWhite » Nov 7th, 2017, 1:38 pm

Omnitheo wrote:False. Ease of access encourages use. Vehicles not currently on the road will appear on new, or expanded roads.

If you have 2 roads, and increase these to 4 roads, you are not creating 4 half filled roads. Shortly after their implementation, you will have 4 roads just as busy as the two.

This is why we need transportation alternatives. Adding and doubling roads doesn’t decrease traffic, it increases it.

Here is a video that partially explains this:



This is why I simply don't buy into this line of thinking. At 1:40 of the video, the analyst comments that many people won't travel, or choose public transportation to avoid congested roads, and that adding lanes then takes these people and puts them back on the road creating additional congestion. Fine - except our public transit it still far behind what it should be - which is why many drive rather than use public transit. Therefore, I agree in that much needs to be done with regard to public transport locally, and stated as much in my OP. Ramp meters would probably work wonders for reducing bridge congestion, however the number of lights on both sides of the lake at controlled intersections directly affecting flow to and from the highway corridor would result in what we already have - further backlogs on all streets entering/intersecting the highway corridor.

Another example of what I have issue with, was previously brought up regarding the development of the south slopes areas. Hundreds if not thousands of homes have been added to this area in recent years, with thousands more in the planning. Where is/are the infrastructure improvements to aid traffic to and from this area? Lakeshore was touted as requiring designation to a major arterial road requiring 4 laning over 30 years ago. What's been accomplished since then? Some nice trees and sidewalks with a nice new round-a-bout from Collett to Dehart. None of which is any advantage whatsoever to reducing congestion, but certainly makes the 15-30 minute bumper-to-bumper morning and afternoon crawl through these couple of blocks a tad more scenic. Why wasn't the recent bridge replacement at Lakeshore and Mission Creek built to accommodate 4 lanes? Sure, they've installed pretty light standards and a rollerblade/cycling path from Rotary to Gyro beaches - what does that do for traffic flow? It's simply contributed to reducing current traffic levels to a crawl in peak periods and removed any future ability to accommodate the massive increases in traffic originating in the south slopes area.

Public transit runs buses approximately every half hour from Southridge area heading into town, with a multitude of stops along the way, resulting in an at best scenario from Arborview Rd. in Southridge to Queensway bus loop of approx. 50 minutes. No wonder most people simply drive their cars. Why no rapid transport routes with minimal stops to and from dense locations such as south slopes to Landmark Square during peak commute times? How about express buses with minimal stops enroute form designated areas to UBCO?

Gordon Drive when it was initially implemented was to reduce the current traffic issues of the time - that was approximately 30 years ago also - yet nothing has been done to alleviate the fact it bottlenecks since day one at Old Meadows because it's reduced to two lanes through a heavily residential and school area with no ability to extend the four laning into the area creating the traffic volume, being south slopes/Crawford. Brilliant.

None of which is directly Basran's fault, as I stated previously these issues have existed long before his visions of self-grandeur materialized. However, stepping back up on his soapbox and blaming constituents for being "disconnected" and "out of touch" with direct relation to climate change regarding traffic congestion is the real uneducated and ignorant line of thinking when nothing has been done to change the alternatives available - or more importantly the lack thereof. It's a complete and total cop out on Basran's part deflecting blame on city residents commuting habits, rather than the city's planning and development branches for not doing more to solve the current issues by improving public transit options, and yes - planning better infrastructure before green-lighting massive developments in pocket areas of the city. This isn't just my bellyaching - the city's own public surveys which are what the initial news item was about proclaims the same thing - it's the number one issue with residents - local traffic/transportation is in much need of improvement.

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Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby WalterWhite » Nov 7th, 2017, 1:40 pm

alanjh595 wrote:
AlienSoldier wrote:Can you give some examples of where they directly helped in failing Kelowna? I've seen some great things from the Kelowna government (past and present) but do not recall anything directly that ties them to failing Kelowna or its citizens.


I am sure glad the dodged this bullet.
https://globalnews.ca/news/1670839/kelo ... ng-canals/
Though, this idea may have cleaned out the Leon issues.


Lol - without a doubt one of the most bizarre platforms ever "floated" by a civic political group (Venice, Italy notwithstanding).

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Kelownians don't really get traffic problems

Postby khutchi » Nov 7th, 2017, 2:24 pm

https://www.wired.com/2014/06/wuwt-traf ... ed-demand/

"As a kid, I used to ask my parents why they couldn’t just build more lanes on the freeway. Maybe transform them all into double-decker highways with cars zooming on the upper and lower levels. Except, as it turns out, that wouldn’t work. Because if there’s anything that traffic engineers have discovered in the last few decades it’s that you can’t build your way out of congestion. It’s the roads themselves that cause traffic ."

Right. This is called induced demand. It's a fancy economics term to describe when an increase the supply of something (like roads) makes people want that thing even more. The best example is roads. As soon as you relieve congestion by adding more lanes, driving becomes more accessible and the lanes always fill up. It's much like trying to solve obesity by loosening your belt an extra notch.

I thought all this was common knowledge like why the sky is blue and why there are no more dinosaurs but i guess not because, just yesterday, Ipsos shared the results of "Kelowna citizenship survey" with city council in which 300 Kelowna residents were surveyed on their priorities for our community. Transportation and Social issues were top two by far. No surprise there.

But what blew me away was in the transportation section, 41% of respondents ranked "improving Traffic flow by adding vehicle lanes" as there #1 priority, 55% as there second! And yes this was the exact language.

Improving public transit got 19%.

Page 30 : https://kelownapublishing.escribemeetin ... entId=9297

Unbelievable. Kelowna thinks about traffic the way a toddler does. I never thought I would have to feel the need to post but here it is ...

Fellow citizens... there is only one surefire, time proved and tested way of making traffic worse long term. Build more roads. At the very best it relieves congestion for a couple of years. Sometimes, like when enterprise had its expansion a while ago, the roads filled up to capacity on Day 1!

If some agent from Ipsos calls you (paid generously by the CoK's budget i might add) and offers this as an option for solving traffic. Just Hang up.

By offering this option as an viable solution to traffic flow, Ipsos has contributed more to this outdated myth that traffic is an infrastructure/government problem and not a social/choice of transit method issue. So glad my property tax is paying for that.
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Re: Kelowians don't really get Traffic problems

Postby lightspeed » Nov 7th, 2017, 2:28 pm

So are $200 bikes made in China the answer?

It would be so bad if Kelowna wasn't already about 15 years behind in road infrastructure. Just bringing it up to current demand would be a start. I don't expect freeways like LA but my God this city is just amateurish in traffic management.

Please don't use existing paucity of car capacity and a couple of decades of poor planning and lack of vision to argue against highway improvements.
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Re: Kelownians don't really get traffic problems

Postby WalterWhite » Nov 7th, 2017, 2:32 pm

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=75390

Agreed, it's not as blanket simple as more roads = reduced congestion - however it's also not as simple as more lanes = increase congestion. It must be coupled with significant alternatives to transportation, the main being increased availability to public transit, in a manner most benefiting ridership. Anyways, this is all already being discussed at the above topic.
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Re: Kelownians don't really get traffic problems

Postby GordonH » Nov 7th, 2017, 2:45 pm

Kelowna traffic problems started the day after the proposed bypass was shutdown by chamber of commerce, grammafreddy made mention of it here in this thread http://forums.castanet.net/viewtopic.ph ... s#p1537864
grammafreddy wrote:Many years ago, my mother used to have a clipping from the Courier that had the route of a new highway that bypassed Kelowna. The highway took off just north of Reid's Corner, up onto the benches, around to East Kelowna and south Kelowna and tagged into Chute Lake Road then down into Penticton, which was widened to six lanes, 3 in each direction. No new bridge. There were off-shoot roads down into various parts of Kelowna for those who wanted to get there but otherwise it created a great truck route and kept Highway 97 through town free for local traffic and people who were actually coming to Kelowna.

As can be predicted, local businesses screamed bloody murder and so it was ditched. It made good sense to me.

Sometimes, its all in a name. Call it a "bypass" and everyone yells. Call it a "truck route" and it becomes more acceptable. Why do we need all the semis going through the middle of town and over the one bridge?


After that happened on the Kelowna side overpasses (Hwy 97/Harvey) should have been installed, on west side underpasses should have been installed. With the ability to increase lane capacity along the highway in the future.

None of this happened, so we are stuck with what we currently have.

Added: if that bypass had been approved the second crossing could have been added connecting it with Connector/97C.
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Re: Kelownians don't really get traffic problems

Postby khutchi » Nov 7th, 2017, 2:51 pm

WalterWhite wrote:https://forums.castanet.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=75390

Anyways, this is all already being discussed at the above topic.


Appreciate the link out. Missed that one.
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Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby khutchi » Nov 7th, 2017, 3:02 pm

AlienSoldier wrote: People's habits can be changed, but a monetary factor helps adjust it. A good example of this is the plastic bag tax in most cities. Stores saw bag use drop by 70% once the 5 cents were added.


Good point. My trip downtown from Glenmore tonight is going cost me the following:

Single Occupancy Vehicle: Fuel (10km)= $0.35 , Insurance: $150/month. $5 per day. @ Average number of trips/day of 4 = $1.25 , Parking: Free
Total: $1.60
Bus Fare : $1.50
Bicycle: No thanks, I don't want to die today.

Guess i'm driving... I won't miss the ten cents
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Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby casey60 » Nov 7th, 2017, 3:31 pm

In all fairness what do we expect from the present mayor? He was a TV news reporter, as I understand a real estate agent, and now mayor who got money donations and the votes from local business people, developers and provincial liberals and federal conservatives members in Kelowna. They are the ones running Kelowna. But imho I think our present mayor is in it over his head. Give him credit for trying tho.
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Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby voice of reason » Nov 7th, 2017, 5:46 pm

riding a bike is a great idea if it works for you .if you can ride out from your apartment and go over to your office without paying for gas then good for you. what if you are a regular guy with a job that requires you to bring tools .what if your job site is never in the same place for more than a few days or weeks? riding the bus and riding a bike work for some people and doesnt work for others.your never going to catch a bunch of drywallers on the bus with buckets of mud and stilts trying to reduce congestion on our roads.this stuff works for city folks with jobs where they sit behind a desk all day.it doesnt work for others.if i could spend a couple hundred bucks on a bike and get to work for free forever that would be nice but it just doesnt fit in to my life. if i want to stop and get 100 bucks worth of groceries on my way home what am i supposed to do with them? haul a trailer behind me? colin basaran is a jackass.he wants to lure people to the okanagan but doesnt want to make kelowna able to accommodate more people.he thinks we can all live in towers in the downtown core and walk to work.the guy is out of touch with reality

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Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby WalterWhite » Nov 7th, 2017, 7:02 pm

I wouldn’t have near as much an issue with him directly if he even remotely attempted to practice what he preaches. However this exact topic was discussed previously (haven’t had a chance to look for the specific topic thread) but it was mentioned his wife works for Interior Health if memory serves correct. Both therefore have jobs where utilizing public transit would be perfect. Their jobs are always in the same location. Their hours of employment make public transit an easy fit. Yet neither has ever made an example of heeding their own advice. Basran’s credibility would have made significant ground, had he made these comments while on his daily commute to city hall on public transit, which I’m lead to believe is readily available near his area of residence. Do he and his wife, or other co-workers even carpool? Highly doubtful as he would surely make use of that fact to prove his commitment if he did. Simply put, walk the walk if you’re going to talk the talk - be a real leader in the community, rather than just paying it “lip service”.

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