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Climate Change Lip Service

Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby spooker » Nov 7th, 2017, 8:08 pm

WalterWhite wrote:I wouldn’t have near as much an issue with him directly if he even remotely attempted to practice what he preaches. However this exact topic was discussed previously (haven’t had a chance to look for the specific topic thread) but it was mentioned his wife works for Interior Health if memory serves correct. Both therefore have jobs where utilizing public transit would be perfect. Their jobs are always in the same location. Their hours of employment make public transit an easy fit. Yet neither has ever made an example of heeding their own advice. Basran’s credibility would have made significant ground, had he made these comments while on his daily commute to city hall on public transit, which I’m lead to believe is readily available near his area of residence. Do he and his wife, or other co-workers even carpool? Highly doubtful as he would surely make use of that fact to prove his commitment if he did. Simply put, walk the walk if you’re going to talk the talk - be a real leader in the community, rather than just paying it “lip service”.


In the article that this thread starting from Basran actually said he moved (I infer "closer to the hospital") so that his wife does not need to drive and when the weather is good and he does not have offsite responsibilities he'll ride his bike to City Hall.

voice of reason wrote:riding a bike is a great idea if it works for you .if you can ride out from your apartment and go over to your office without paying for gas then good for you. what if you are a regular guy with a job that requires you to bring tools .what if your job site is never in the same place for more than a few days or weeks? riding the bus and riding a bike work for some people and doesnt work for others.your never going to catch a bunch of drywallers on the bus with buckets of mud and stilts trying to reduce congestion on our roads.this stuff works for city folks with jobs where they sit behind a desk all day.it doesnt work for others.if i could spend a couple hundred bucks on a bike and get to work for free forever that would be nice but it just doesnt fit in to my life. if i want to stop and get 100 bucks worth of groceries on my way home what am i supposed to do with them? haul a trailer behind me? colin basaran is a jackass.he wants to lure people to the okanagan but doesnt want to make kelowna able to accommodate more people.he thinks we can all live in towers in the downtown core and walk to work.the guy is out of touch with reality


A couple of points in response, 1) in better weather I regularly go to Costco, buy $200 worth of stuff and haul it back in the cargo trailer behind my bicycle, and 2) when I was pouring foundations (many many years ago) I would take a bus to the work site (that changed every week pretty much) where I would meet my foreman who drove the company truck and had all the tools, and 3) no one is saying there is a "one size fits all" solution, but for too many they don't even try to explore alternatives
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Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. -- Plato

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Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby WalterWhite » Nov 7th, 2017, 9:10 pm

spooker wrote:
WalterWhite wrote:I wouldn’t have near as much an issue with him directly if he even remotely attempted to practice what he preaches. However this exact topic was discussed previously (haven’t had a chance to look for the specific topic thread) but it was mentioned his wife works for Interior Health if memory serves correct. Both therefore have jobs where utilizing public transit would be perfect. Their jobs are always in the same location. Their hours of employment make public transit an easy fit. Yet neither has ever made an example of heeding their own advice. Basran’s credibility would have made significant ground, had he made these comments while on his daily commute to city hall on public transit, which I’m lead to believe is readily available near his area of residence. Do he and his wife, or other co-workers even carpool? Highly doubtful as he would surely make use of that fact to prove his commitment if he did. Simply put, walk the walk if you’re going to talk the talk - be a real leader in the community, rather than just paying it “lip service”.


In the article that this thread starting from Basran actually said he moved (I infer "closer to the hospital") so that his wife does not need to drive and when the weather is good and he does not have offsite responsibilities he'll ride his bike to City Hall.

voice of reason wrote:riding a bike is a great idea if it works for you .if you can ride out from your apartment and go over to your office without paying for gas then good for you. what if you are a regular guy with a job that requires you to bring tools .what if your job site is never in the same place for more than a few days or weeks? riding the bus and riding a bike work for some people and doesnt work for others.your never going to catch a bunch of drywallers on the bus with buckets of mud and stilts trying to reduce congestion on our roads.this stuff works for city folks with jobs where they sit behind a desk all day.it doesnt work for others.if i could spend a couple hundred bucks on a bike and get to work for free forever that would be nice but it just doesnt fit in to my life. if i want to stop and get 100 bucks worth of groceries on my way home what am i supposed to do with them? haul a trailer behind me? colin basaran is a jackass.he wants to lure people to the okanagan but doesnt want to make kelowna able to accommodate more people.he thinks we can all live in towers in the downtown core and walk to work.the guy is out of touch with reality


A couple of points in response, 1) in better weather I regularly go to Costco, buy $200 worth of stuff and haul it back in the cargo trailer behind my bicycle, and 2) when I was pouring foundations (many many years ago) I would take a bus to the work site (that changed every week pretty much) where I would meet my foreman who drove the company truck and had all the tools, and 3) no one is saying there is a "one size fits all" solution, but for too many they don't even try to explore alternatives


Thank you for pointing that out - I stand 100% corrected on that information I completely overlooked.
ETA: - I will counter this however with a comment I just read in the comments attached to the original story (they're a great read btw) in saying, how fortunate he and his family are they can afford to move to an area making their travels to and from work and home more convenient - many, if not most, simply do not have the ability/luxury.
Last edited by WalterWhite on Nov 7th, 2017, 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby voice of reason » Nov 7th, 2017, 9:12 pm

we dont even hire people who take the bus anymore because they cant get to work on time and cant work late. one of the first questions we ask people is do you have a car? how are you going to get here?we have had too many bus riders over the years who "have to show up at quarter after cuz of the bus" .
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Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby voice of reason » Nov 7th, 2017, 9:14 pm

when i see a guy with a hard hat and hi vis clothing at the bus stop the first thing i think of is that guy got an impaired charge not that guy is doing his part for the environment

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Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby StraitTalk » Nov 7th, 2017, 9:59 pm

voice of reason wrote:when i see a guy with a hard hat and hi vis clothing at the bus stop the first thing i think of is that guy got an impaired charge not that guy is doing his part for the environment


Are you as big of a bigot as that statement made you sound? I know Canadians are more inclined to drive but, really... those are the two options? Impaired driver or environmentalist? :135:
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Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby spooker » Nov 8th, 2017, 6:25 am

WalterWhite wrote:Thank you for pointing that out - I stand 100% corrected on that information I completely overlooked.
ETA: - I will counter this however with a comment I just read in the comments attached to the original story (they're a great read btw) in saying, how fortunate he and his family are they can afford to move to an area making their travels to and from work and home more convenient - many, if not most, simply do not have the ability/luxury.


Sadly, in this life everything costs ... either we pay it up front by where we live or we pay it on the back-end by how much it costs to get around ... who knows what anyone has for means ... I know plenty of people who don't have a lot who are living in the 70's apartments along Pandosy and can easily walk downtown ...

Too often we're making the "easy" choices from pressure or limited information ...
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Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something. -- Plato
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Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby northglenmore2012 » Nov 8th, 2017, 7:35 am

Wow, the multiple responses to the Mayors comments in regards to the frustrations the citizens of Kelowna are experiencing with the traffic situation is great. The problem as I see is that's there's not one person on city council that would know the difference between a culvert and a catch basin let alone how to build a road and or a efficient intersection. I think we're pointing the finger in the wrong direction. We hire supposedly "professionals" to address the infrastructure issues at HUGE wages. Are they doing their jobs, well from the feedback on this forum, many people think not.

I would suggest putting the heat on Ron Mattiussi, City Manager. Alan Newcomb, Infrastructure Division Director, Infrastucture Senior Engineer, Ron Westlake. How about Joel Shaw, Infrastucture Engineering Manager and not to forget the Integrated Transportation Department Manager, Rafael Vularreal. Its not like these employees are new to Kelowna, they're like fixtures at the Hall. If the people aren't satisfied with the road situation, I think this group should take more than a little of the responsibility of the situation. Time to put them out to pasture...........maybe.
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Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby techrtr » Nov 8th, 2017, 7:46 am

AlienSoldier wrote:I hate to say it buy the Mayor is right. Just watch as the new highway lanes are filled up within a year or two of being built. Its a common theme that plays out across North America. You build out the highways, people move farther away requiring more vehicles and thus the highway gets gridlocked. You see it in every major city.

The Mayor could lead by example however. He could develop a transportation plan, create "green zones" so that buildings don't expand ever outwards. Connect bike lanes across Kelowna and even toll the bridge if need be.

People's habits can be changed, but a monetary factor helps adjust it. A good example of this is the plastic bag tax in most cities. Stores saw bag use drop by 70% once the 5 cents were added.


That might be true to a point but the fact is, Kelowna is one of the most rapidly growing cities in Canada. If no road improvements were made here they would rapidly get completely clogged with traffic because the people moving into the new developments going up everywhere aren't going to ride their bikes to the store or to work.

12 years or so ago, there was a four way stop at the intersection of DeHard and Gordon. It was sufficient. Then they started building all of those developments up in the South Slopes. Now at certain times of day, driving along Gordon Drive is a real PITA. The increased traffic has nothing to do with better roads, it has everything to do with massive development.

I have a vehicle sitting uninsured on my driveway. Better roads aren't going to make me run out and insure it and put it back on the road - dramatically lower insurance rates might though.

About transit in Kelowna, I tried to take the bus to work. It once took me two hours to get from Springfield Rd. (Home Hardware area) to the Lower Mission. I gave up on transit after that. I probably could have walked home faster.

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Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby AlienSoldier » Nov 8th, 2017, 8:48 am

techrtr wrote:
AlienSoldier wrote:I hate to say it buy the Mayor is right. Just watch as the new highway lanes are filled up within a year or two of being built. Its a common theme that plays out across North America. You build out the highways, people move farther away requiring more vehicles and thus the highway gets gridlocked. You see it in every major city.

The Mayor could lead by example however. He could develop a transportation plan, create "green zones" so that buildings don't expand ever outwards. Connect bike lanes across Kelowna and even toll the bridge if need be.

People's habits can be changed, but a monetary factor helps adjust it. A good example of this is the plastic bag tax in most cities. Stores saw bag use drop by 70% once the 5 cents were added.


That might be true to a point but the fact is, Kelowna is one of the most rapidly growing cities in Canada. If no road improvements were made here they would rapidly get completely clogged with traffic because the people moving into the new developments going up everywhere aren't going to ride their bikes to the store or to work.

12 years or so ago, there was a four way stop at the intersection of DeHard and Gordon. It was sufficient. Then they started building all of those developments up in the South Slopes. Now at certain times of day, driving along Gordon Drive is a real PITA. The increased traffic has nothing to do with better roads, it has everything to do with massive development.

I have a vehicle sitting uninsured on my driveway. Better roads aren't going to make me run out and insure it and put it back on the road - dramatically lower insurance rates might though.

About transit in Kelowna, I tried to take the bus to work. It once took me two hours to get from Springfield Rd. (Home Hardware area) to the Lower Mission. I gave up on transit after that. I probably could have walked home faster.


You are proving my point with your last statement. Transit needs to be built to be a viable option, the more roads you build the more people move here the more vehicles on the road is not an option for the future. If you want to try double decker highways, look at Toronto's Gardiner, it's still clogged, 16 lane highways, same thing with the 401 at most times of the day. Yet the GO Train and TTC and SkyTrain move millions of people efficiently everyday with few issues.

Its time to think outside of vehicles, and thinking Kelowna is a small town. Its not, you need to think now regarding transit before you have no other option and are so built up that its bloody expensive to put it in the ground.

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Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby techrtr » Nov 8th, 2017, 9:06 am

I don't think transit is that easy to fix. People have been complaining about it for years. We're not big enough to have a transit system like Vancouver or Victoria (not enough riders). So, a lot of people refuse to take the bus because it's such a PITA and the service is so spotty. Kind of a chicken and egg situation.

I hate to badmouth the people running the city, but I really have to wonder sometimes what their qualifications are. Are they locals who know or are related to the right people? Do they have the right credentials? Does the city recruit managers with tons of experience from larger centers?

One would think that a transit system would be relatively easy to fix - there are lots of cities out there that have done it. Maybe given the size of Kelowna, the transit system is as good as it can be.
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Re: Climate Change Lip Service

Postby AlienSoldier » Nov 8th, 2017, 9:34 am

techrtr wrote:I don't think transit is that easy to fix. People have been complaining about it for years. We're not big enough to have a transit system like Vancouver or Victoria (not enough riders). So, a lot of people refuse to take the bus because it's such a PITA and the service is so spotty. Kind of a chicken and egg situation.

I hate to badmouth the people running the city, but I really have to wonder sometimes what their qualifications are. Are they locals who know or are related to the right people? Do they have the right credentials? Does the city recruit managers with tons of experience from larger centers?

One would think that a transit system would be relatively easy to fix - there are lots of cities out there that have done it. Maybe given the size of Kelowna, the transit system is as good as it can be.


Similar size cities such as Waterloo, multiple ones in the States and Europe are investing in that area. It takes commitment and drive (this is where Basran needs to show by leading and driving this) and a lot of money. Most places make 3 or 4 way agreements such as City, Province and Federal in Canada and then on top of that they utilize the fuel tax to compensate for the increase until the line is up and running. Once it is running then you can make 70% of your expenses back from users and 30% is funded by the City and Province, unless you own the land around the line and lease that out to make back the difference.

We have to put our money on the table to get this done, not just complain and hope it disappears. Every trip to Kelowna I notice the traffic get worse, then the level of irritation in people increases and it feels more like a City twice as large because the systems are being strained to the max and people are feeling it.
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