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Can not hire fast enough

Re: Can not hire fast enough

Postby Jflem1983 » Nov 22nd, 2017, 12:24 pm

Jonrox wrote:Here's the issue most people don't understand... markets control pricing and customers don't care what a company's costs are. They only care that they're getting good enough value for their money to make a purchase.

If a company's costs rise, the customer doesn't actually care because they're actually only concerned with the selling price. If a company is able to raise their prices and still get the order, it simply means they were previously charging too little.

So when people say they should just pay employees a higher wage, it's not nearly that simple because they likely can't raise their prices and still get the orders (again, if they can it only means they were previously not charging enough). So if increased wages make the orders unprofitable or squeeze margins too thin, then it doesn't make sense to take the order.

It's not KF's responsibility to ensure housing and related expenses are affordable in Kelowna. They pay wages that allow them to to take orders and be profitable. They're not a charity.



I fully agree with all that . Its also not kelowna residents problem if these jobs go unfilled or pack up and leave town .
Now they want to take our guns away . That would be just fine. Take em away from the criminals first . Ill gladly give u mine. "Charlie Daniels"

You have got to stand for something . Or you will fall for anything "Aaron Tippin"

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Re: Can not hire fast enough

Postby Jflem1983 » Nov 22nd, 2017, 12:28 pm

If KF were in any other market in Canada. They would likely have to pay more . The reason they are as big as they are . I believe is due to low wages in the area . Making their business a bit more competitive than maybe the same shop would be in Vancouver or Calgary
Now they want to take our guns away . That would be just fine. Take em away from the criminals first . Ill gladly give u mine. "Charlie Daniels"

You have got to stand for something . Or you will fall for anything "Aaron Tippin"

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Re: Can not hire fast enough

Postby gman313 » Nov 22nd, 2017, 12:36 pm

Jflem1983 wrote:If KF were in any other market in Canada. They would likely have to pay more . The reason they are as big as they are . I believe is due to low wages in the area . Making their business a bit more competitive than maybe the same shop would be in Vancouver or Calgary


The Materials Management, AME and Support function wages are identical in YVR, YLW, YHM AND YYZ. Southport, MB is the exception as that is it's own contract with it's own pay scale, slightly lower than the to her

The wages are very similar to Cascade Aeropsace, almost identical, trust me they talk.

your point is incorrect

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Re: Can not hire fast enough

Postby gman313 » Nov 22nd, 2017, 12:43 pm

Here is Cascades previous CA - very comparable to KF

http://www.bcbargaining.ca/content/679/ ... eement.pdf
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Re: Can not hire fast enough

Postby GordonH » Nov 22nd, 2017, 12:53 pm

At one time KF practice was to hire then after 90 days layoffs. Just so they did not have to pay any benefits.
Of course once potential employees catch onto what's happening, it becomes harder & harder to find employees.
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Re: Can not hire fast enough

Postby gman313 » Nov 22nd, 2017, 1:09 pm

GordonH wrote:At one time KF practice was to hire then after 90 days layoffs. Just so they did not have to pay any benefits.
Of course once potential employees catch onto what's happening, it becomes harder & harder to find employees.


when? - didn't happen once when I was there
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Re: Can not hire fast enough

Postby youjustcomplain » Nov 22nd, 2017, 1:42 pm

Jflem1983 wrote:Fair points no doubt. How do u defend the starvation wages?


Having read through the thread, and reading the job description for a $13/hr starting wage, I feel this pay is absolutely fair. Quite possibly higher than they should need to pay.

25 years ago I was earning $6.50 per hour and as a single guy, I shared an apartment with a friend for $700 per month. ($350 was my share). Gas was in the 60 cents per litre range. I can't remember the price of food, but I'd bet it's inflated at roughly the same rate as the gas which is now double the price and rent which is roughly double aswell. When I look at the pay I earned, it's exactly half which is what I'd expect for the job in todays market. Sweeping floors and handing out parts isn't a job that demands a high pay. It's not starvation wage. But the person for the job won't be someone with a $700,000 mortgage and three kids in a 6 bedroom mansion in the upper mission. No, the person for that job is a college student, someone with a mortgage already paid off just looking for extra cash, or someone without many other marketable skills, (and I don't mean that to be condescending).

That said, if they can't fill the position, there is a reason. I don't know what it is, but increasing the starting wage will increase the demand and solve the supply issue they're having. If the wages have to increase to the point where the company can no longer afford to stay in Kelowna, then I suggest they leave town for somewhere they can pay cheaper wages. This would put a lot of Kelowna residents out of work, so I'd not suggest this be a good solution, but it would have to be considered.

Lastly, yes, KFC has gone through layoffs. Anyone who takes a job there has to be prepared to lose that job as the business demands require. Perhaps they've lost good staff due to layoffs and those staff may not be willing to return. But none of these things make it "starvation wages". If you can't work that that wage, then don't.
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Re: Can not hire fast enough

Postby gman313 » Nov 22nd, 2017, 1:45 pm

youjustcomplain wrote:
Jflem1983 wrote:Fair points no doubt. How do u defend the starvation wages?


Having read through the thread, and reading the job description for a $13/hr starting wage, I feel this pay is absolutely fair. Quite possibly higher than they should need to pay.

25 years ago I was earning $6.50 per hour and as a single guy, I shared an apartment with a friend for $700 per month. ($350 was my share). Gas was in the 60 cents per litre range. I can't remember the price of food, but I'd bet it's inflated at roughly the same rate as the gas which is now double the price and rent which is roughly double aswell. When I look at the pay I earned, it's exactly half which is what I'd expect for the job in todays market. Sweeping floors and handing out parts isn't a job that demands a high pay. It's not starvation wage. But the person for the job won't be someone with a $700,000 mortgage and three kids in a 6 bedroom mansion in the upper mission. No, the person for that job is a college student, someone with a mortgage already paid off just looking for extra cash, or someone without many other marketable skills, (and I don't mean that to be condescending).

That said, if they can't fill the position, there is a reason. I don't know what it is, but increasing the starting wage will increase the demand and solve the supply issue they're having. If the wages have to increase to the point where the company can no longer afford to stay in Kelowna, then I suggest they leave town for somewhere they can pay cheaper wages. This would put a lot of Kelowna residents out of work, so I'd not suggest this be a good solution, but it would have to be considered.

Lastly, yes, KFC has gone through layoffs. Anyone who takes a job there has to be prepared to lose that job as the business demands require. Perhaps they've lost good staff due to layoffs and those staff may not be willing to return. But none of these things make it "starvation wages". If you can't work that that wage, then don't.


KFC - Kentucky Fried Chicken. No one there makes $13 I bet
KF - Kelowna Flightcraft (Flightcraft is one word)
KF Aero - new name
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Re: Can not hire fast enough

Postby lesliepaul » Nov 22nd, 2017, 1:49 pm

Jflem1983 wrote:If KF were in any other market in Canada. They would likely have to pay more . The reason they are as big as they are . I believe is due to low wages in the area . Making their business a bit more competitive than maybe the same shop would be in Vancouver or Calgary


Not just KF, but almost every tradesperson who works for someone else around here makes his/her boss a very good profit at their own expense. Make your "pot of gold" elsewhere then come back when you may actually be able to afford this place. Starting from scratch here is getting almost impossible to keep your head above water.............never mind planning retirement.
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Re: Can not hire fast enough

Postby GordonH » Nov 22nd, 2017, 2:39 pm

GordonH wrote:At one time KF practice was to hire then after 90 days layoffs. Just so they did not have to pay any benefits.
Of course once potential employees catch onto what's happening, it becomes harder & harder to find employees.

gman313 wrote:when? - didn't happen once when I was there


during the 90s
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Re: Can not hire fast enough

Postby Keith Duhaime » Nov 22nd, 2017, 2:48 pm

Jflem1983 wrote:Ya i guess thats why no locals care to work there. Cuz they pay so well


You are not making any sense. I personally know locals that work there and make good money. One kid, just 2 years out of his engineering degree is even buying his own place here now. What are you thinking? - That someone too lazy to take advantage of the local opportunities like UBC-O and OC to get an education should somehow automatically get better than $14/hour? As taxpayers that provided them opportunities like UBC-O and OC, on what planet should we support or advocate for more? If someone can't be bothered taking advantage of the opportunities we provide to them, how can you say we owe them anymore?

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Re: Can not hire fast enough

Postby Even Steven » Nov 22nd, 2017, 3:39 pm

Jflem1983 wrote:Minimum wage to work on airplanes.


KF starts everybody way above minimum wage. And as soon as you advance you get raises. They're one of the best employers in the valley.

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Re: Can not hire fast enough

Postby TLJ33 » Nov 23rd, 2017, 6:13 pm

Nobody at KF makes $13/hr. Starting wage for the lowest entry level unskilled job is currently $14/hr with incremental increases at regular intervals and they currently max out at around $20/hr. This is well above most entry level unskilled jobs in the Okanagan.

Rates for skilled positions are generally on par with industry standards and in some cases are higher (precisely one of the main reasons why I relocated here several years ago in fact).

Unfortunately, as far as the aerospace industry goes, Kelowna is quite isolated so unless they are going to offer significantly more than industry standard it is always going to be a challenge to attract skilled aerospace workers here.
Last edited by TLJ33 on Nov 24th, 2017, 12:39 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Can not hire fast enough

Postby slootman » Nov 23rd, 2017, 8:05 pm

If you want to even touch an aircraft and keep it airworthy you need training and education. Those jobs pay more than $14/hr. For anyone looking for a career path, KF Aerospace is an option worth exploring as it's local and a legitimate player. Get an AME in structures then go into a specialty rating if you're so inclined. Instantly employable across Canada. If you're a keener, get into the ops/cargo side of things. Even more doors open. Where in the world do you want to live?

Not everyone understands the career paths available, all in little ol Kelowna.

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Re: Can not hire fast enough

Postby gman313 » Nov 24th, 2017, 10:15 am

slootman wrote:If you want to even touch an aircraft and keep it airworthy you need training and education. Those jobs pay more than $14/hr. For anyone looking for a career path, KF Aerospace is an option worth exploring as it's local and a legitimate player. Get an AME in structures then go into a specialty rating if you're so inclined. Instantly employable across Canada. If you're a keener, get into the ops/cargo side of things. Even more doors open. Where in the world do you want to live?

Not everyone understands the career paths available, all in little ol Kelowna.


funny thing is structures program is only 10 months. The next 2-2.5 years is a PAID apprenticeship with increases every six months. It is a great opportunity.

Mechanics and Avionics is closer to two years then the same apprenticeship same pay increases.

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