$1,000/year for water in West Kelowna?

Re: $1,000/year for water in West Kelowna?

Postby noremac » Feb 7th, 2018, 11:15 am

Can someone, please, point the way the Tender Documents. There is nothing on the City of West Kelowna website and the only thing it has to offer is "coming soon" and a thank you to the Government for the Grant. It was mentioned earlier that a RFQ had been issued but, I can not find it on the City site. Thanks in advance.
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Re: $1,000/year for water in West Kelowna?

Postby Rider59 » Feb 7th, 2018, 2:32 pm

noremac wrote:Can someone, please, point the way the Tender Documents. There is nothing on the City of West Kelowna website and the only thing it has to offer is "coming soon" and a thank you to the Government for the Grant. It was mentioned earlier that a RFQ had been issued but, I can not find it on the City site. Thanks in advance.


Probably a 'select bidders' RFQ to qualified contractors with experience in this type of construction only.

One usually has to purchase tender docs on public projects this size, usually directly from the consultant. You won't find them for free on a website.
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Re: $1,000/year for water in West Kelowna?

Postby noremac » Feb 7th, 2018, 3:40 pm

I saw the request for a Project Manager on BC Bids, but I haven't seen an award or any kind of other request for the project. I just figured if they were planning on breaking ground in April, something must have been put out there or, has been accepted. I haven't seen a finalized drawing for the project either, so I'm wondering if it's already delayed?
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Re: $1,000/year for water in West Kelowna?

Postby Rider59 » Feb 7th, 2018, 3:58 pm

Are you looking for the predesign, tender or 'approved for construction' drawings? Try finding out which engineering firm designed it and contact them to purchase a set. Usually runs around $300/set.
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Re: $1,000/year for water in West Kelowna?

Postby Symbonite » Feb 7th, 2018, 4:14 pm

Well its probably said before...but I guess its time to drink beer....or now with the Ban of wine...support the wine industry time to drink wine!
**Disclaimer: The above statement is in my OPINION only.
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Re: $1,000/year for water in West Kelowna?

Postby dodgerdodge » Apr 23rd, 2018, 7:08 pm

Ok so it seems that my water rate increase is in excess of 100% now. I was indeed paying flat rate at $55.55 per quarter but new bill today shows $115.00 and that's only half of what it will apparently be in 4 years. I understand that improvements need to be funded but 110% increase since last quarter? Has any other utility or similar increased by those margins without complaint?
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Re: $1,000/year for water in West Kelowna?

Postby Jim Dixon » Apr 24th, 2018, 4:07 pm

UhHuhYeahSure wrote:Am I reading this right?

https://www.castanet.net/news/West-Kelo ... s-approved

I read that I will be paying a flat rate of $227 per quarter in 2021.

.........


I think you read it right, but I believe the existing information is wrong (incomplete). Once the 'Old Boys' club reinstate the existing leader of the Westside Kremlin, and minions, we will see more fees tacked on that they have not yet shown.

It's an election year and His Warship will no doubt be spreading more money in hopes of buying our votes. The Apathacans and sheople will flock to the poles and vote based on promises, not records and we will again be paying the piper. Have you not noticed the increases in the political Ducks and Kids style of verbal vomit from some of the Mayors do'ers? I've yet to find the federal governments water quality "policy" Doug is blaming the need for upgrades on. The crying 'wolf' over water quality is supposed to scare us, or heard us into the corrals of "get me clean water - I'll pay anything!" Follow that up with the continuing saga of the Doug Mahal, and resurgence or resurrection of a emergency/hospital/care (call it what you want) centre on land (AKA unsightly property) already bought by the taxpayer (AKA IHA) for starters, and after they are elected to do it all again, they will with bigger taxes coming down the pike.

$1,000 a year more for water is nothing compared to the increased costs of policing, fire protection services, city/civic hall/centre (AKA Doug Mahal), school (separate tax masters) not to mention the biggest costs of all to hit us soon (after the election) = ROADS, garbage, recycling, parks, and land rescue services for beachfront property.... (add about a 3.6% increase over and above the draconian water rate increases).

BTW, if you dear reader are missing your pet, friends, family, check local potholes.

Our council should be the poster-child for the most dysfunctional council in North America. The Mayor's priorities are all over the map as witnessed when development is anything and can be anywhere of any design - just pay the extra fees.

You read it right 'UhHuhYeahSure', in reality, it's the digital version of a mugging for profit.

Just saying...
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Re: $1,000/year for water in West Kelowna?

Postby Snowbound » Apr 25th, 2018, 12:54 pm

I'm in the Powers Creek water system and my bill for this quarter was $138 flat rate.

Interesting that the meter reading has not changed for the whole quarter. Maybe they aren't reading the meters anymore...or it is stuck.

The oldest bill I have on file is 2012 and the flat rate was $57 back then. Plus consumption though.
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Re: $1,000/year for water in West Kelowna?

Postby UhHuhYeahSure » May 2nd, 2018, 5:55 pm

gman313 wrote:
if you really don't use much you can install your own system and purchase the water elsewhere or treat it yourself.


Sure. I install my own well then phone up the city and say I don't have to pay you any more and they say "Of course not. Enjoy you own system".

Uh huh yeah sure.
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Re: $1,000/year for water in West Kelowna?

Postby UhHuhYeahSure » May 2nd, 2018, 6:15 pm

Jim Dixon wrote: The crying 'wolf' over water quality is supposed to scare us, or heard us into the corrals of "get me clean water - I'll pay anything!"

The fear of Walkerton in 2000 is likely a factor. The $1 billion dollar class action lawsuit posted by grandstanding lawyers isn't something our comfy politians want to lose sleep over. Money is no object when it comes to their good sleep. Especially when it is our money they are spending. Need more? Just take it.

There is nothing wrong with our water that $50 million dollars won't fix now is there? And there is nothing wrong with hitting up everyone, water gluttons and water misers, to pay for it along with everything else these folks can dream up to spend it on.
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Re: $1,000/year for water in West Kelowna?

Postby seewood » May 3rd, 2018, 9:07 am

A few points regarding water that I have picked up at conferences and water committees.
Water for the most part is free, it is the infrastructure to get treated water to your taps is what costs money.
Two ways to pay for the infrastructure: flat rate and metered. Flat rate is easier as the local government will know what expenses are entailed for a year, divide that amount by the number of connections and you have your yearly flat rate. If ag is on city water, that is taken into account as well. Thing with flat rate is perceived fairness where a senior couple on a fixed income in a condo unit will pay the same for water as a mega house with 3 families living in it.
OK, so meter the water to have people that use water to pay for a more equitable share. Problem is it might take a year or so to get that charge right as people may reduce consumption and the overall revenue is not enough to pay for the infrastructure upkeep. So more adjustments are made. A jurisdiction might run a metered system as a flat rate for a few years to try and get the numbers right the first time. If they misjudge, we all know what the electorate will gob off about...
Upgrade the water treatment plant: Usually a surcharge until the capital cost is recovered. A jurisdiction might give the property owner the option to pay an one time fee to reduce the overall amount paid with interest over the years. Naramata was like that 12 years ago.
I saw Walkerton was mentioned in a previous post. Yes, the goal posts have moved regarding drinking water quality across Canada.
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Re: $1,000/year for water in West Kelowna?

Postby Jim Dixon » May 3rd, 2018, 10:53 am

seewood wrote:............ it is the infrastructure to get treated water to your taps is what costs money.
......


At the rate the City is raising taxes, fees, penalties etcetera, perhaps it is time that we hire new council that can find ways of managing finances better than they have so far.

The alleged very poor turbidity and the numerous boil water advisories that Lakeview has suffered the last year is seen by many as overkill, a con job, and a means to raise rates to build an infrastructure for the homes yet to be built. Lakeview Irrigation District managed the system quite well, and with abundant reserves. Where did the reserves go? What has our city done that we suddenly need to pay 10 times more for the so-called free water? Poor management is the likely answer.

If water management were a business, we'd have all new managers in short order. Unfortunately, we can't fire a dysfunctional and draconian council whose ideas, concerns, and opinions only matter if they agree with the mayor.

This fall election, remember the councilors voting history and what they have, or haven't done and not vote on promises of "I'm here for you", or "working for you", or the rest of the rhetoric, gobbledygook and befuddlement. Would YOU hire someone based on what they promise they'll do, or do you hire based on their job history, education, experience, knowledge and background?

IMHO, the boil water advisories are nothing more than scare tactics.
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Re: $1,000/year for water in West Kelowna?

Postby seewood » May 3rd, 2018, 11:20 am

[quote="Jim Dixon"]IMHO, the boil water advisories are nothing more than scare tactics.

Umm, I respectfully disagree. Locals used to drinking the water may become immune to some of the bugs found in the water, however when tourists from a jurisdiction that drink filtered and treated water go and drink local unfiltered, untreated ( other than chlorine) and come down with an intestinal bug, the news cycle will be busy for a while. Really bad for business with the Walkerton debacle being the worst example.

Summerland for example, sources most of their water as "surface" water and initially installed settling ponds before water entered the new treatment plant. Ponds were not big enough so all kinds of issues were happening with the equipment. More ponds were made and all seems ok now. Pull from the lake or a well and the initial filtering is not required.
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Re: $1,000/year for water in West Kelowna?

Postby Jim Dixon » May 4th, 2018, 9:30 am

seewood wrote:
Jim Dixon wrote:IMHO, the boil water advisories are nothing more than scare tactics.

Umm, I respectfully disagree. Locals used to drinking the water may become immune to some of the bugs found in the water, however when tourists from a jurisdiction that drink filtered and treated water go and drink local unfiltered, untreated ( other than chlorine) and come down with an intestinal bug, the news cycle will be busy for a while. Really bad for business with the Walkerton debacle being the worst example.

Summerland for example, sources most of their water as "surface" water and initially installed settling ponds before water entered the new treatment plant. Ponds were not big enough so all kinds of issues were happening with the equipment. More ponds were made and all seems ok now. Pull from the lake or a well and the initial filtering is not required.


I hear you. I appreciate your time in explaining your view, and welcome it. We need to protect the tourists and new homeowners from our so-called turbid waters. If we can save just one stomach cramp from happening... yadda yadda.
We don't want a crypto-scare like Kelowna had. I also recognize the advanced system of rebuilding the ponds. Some hotels in Europe use settling ponds to filter and re-use their waste water as irrigation for their gardens. Such things as Summerlands venture and European technology takes brains and visionaries that think out-of-the-box, and lands to do it. Since West Kelowna filled in most of natures settling ponds in order to plant basements on them, eco-friendly ways are out. All those dreams of what might be the best thing aside, I referred to the present day old-boys scare-tactics used by the higher anarchy of this council.

West Kelowna is riding the very temporary wave of growth and development. Historically, this is always a short-lived temporary band-aide. Just look across Canada. And then, when growth slows and the wave ebbs (Toronto's crash in 89-91), the council of the day will have no choice but to raise taxes to cover the declining and lost DCCs again but with rhetoric we've seen (example) ~Council pealed back the recommended tax increasing to a mere 14% instead of 18%~ and that will be the political verbal vomit of the day (witness Colin Basrans recent befuddling gobbledygook of 3.6% to 2.99%)

We knew more than 14 years ago of the growth-dictated need to provide a lot more water to a lot more homes and businesses and yet council spent thousands of dollars studying a new city hall - disguised as a "civic centre". This isn't all about cleaner, purer water. It's about providing the volume for the huge increase in growth with more to come. If it really is about our water being too dirty now, what brought it on after all these years of normal water? Again, I conclude that this dysfunctional council has it's priorities dictated by developers and hindsight - - - at our expense.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree as to cause and effect :)
BTW - thanks for being civil - it's nice not to be berated for an opinion. j
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Re: $1,000/year for water in West Kelowna?

Postby dodgerdodge » May 4th, 2018, 6:30 pm

Jim Dixon wrote:
At the rate the City is raising taxes, fees, penalties etcetera, perhaps it is time that we hire new council that can find ways of managing finances better than they have so far.

The alleged very poor turbidity and the numerous boil water advisories that Lakeview has suffered the last year is seen by many as overkill, a con job, and a means to raise rates to build an infrastructure for the homes yet to be built. Lakeview Irrigation District managed the system quite well, and with abundant reserves. Where did the reserves go? What has our city done that we suddenly need to pay 10 times more for the so-called free water? Poor management is the likely answer.

If water management were a business, we'd have all new managers in short order. Unfortunately, we can't fire a dysfunctional and draconian council whose ideas, concerns, and opinions only matter if they agree with the mayor.

This fall election, remember the councilors voting history and what they have, or haven't done and not vote on promises of "I'm here for you", or "working for you", or the rest of the rhetoric, gobbledygook and befuddlement. Would YOU hire someone based on what they promise they'll do, or do you hire based on their job history, education, experience, knowledge and background?

IMHO, the boil water advisories are nothing more than scare tactics.


And as if by magic today we get a water advisory but don't worry because it will all be ok in the end.
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