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Free homes for the homeless....

Re: Free homes for the homeless....

Postby MAPearce » Dec 2nd, 2017, 12:25 pm

At leadt mr barker had knackers to put his name to his inhuman rant unlike others on here .


I call *bleep* .... It's more humane to kick someone in the pants and give them the straight goods about how having a job and good habits than it is to say "there , there"... and give them something...

Provide opportunity , yes . But hand out freebies , NO .
I payed attention in High school....But not to what they were trying to teach me..

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Re: Free homes for the homeless....

Postby the truth » Dec 2nd, 2017, 12:26 pm

alanjh595 wrote:I wonder if these free homes are going to come with free sewer, water, electricity, furniture, fridge, stove, cable/internet, laundry, etc..........?


is it not really all my and tax payers stuff, we are paying for it after all
"The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." -George Orwell
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Re: Free homes for the homeless....

Postby the truth » Dec 2nd, 2017, 12:27 pm

MAPearce wrote:
At leadt mr barker had knackers to put his name to his inhuman rant unlike others on here .


I call *bleep* .... It's more humane to kick someone in the pants and give them the straight goods about how having a job and good habits than it is to say "there , there"... and give them something...

Provide opportunity , yes . But hand out freebies , NO .

yup :smt045
"The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it." -George Orwell
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Re: Free homes for the homeless....

Postby maryjane48 » Dec 2nd, 2017, 12:31 pm

Got to love when the govt does the right thing :130:
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Re: Free homes for the homeless....

Postby Bpeep » Dec 2nd, 2017, 12:33 pm

JayByrd wrote:
Bman wrote:Give them jobs and shelter.
Even if the assigned task is basket weaving.
Make the shelter conditional to them continuing to be employed and clean of illegal drugs.
If they refuse to work at an assigned task that's conducive to their physical and mental abilities, turn them loose and don't assist them.

Society is slowly being given up to the lowest common denominator. It's long past time to stop the foolishness and wanton waste of tax funded resources.


The part you don't get here as that most homeless persons are PRETTY MESSED UP. They can't live like you and I do. Some may have been able to function that way once, but not anymore. They can't do a job for eight or six or four hours. They can't show up on time. They can't be responsible. They can't take orders. They can't follow rules. Understand that, and you understand why they are where they are. Understand that, and you understand why offering help on your terms won't work.

I realize what you suggested is the very most help you'd be willing to give, and I understand that. And I'm not saying there's a better answer, because I'm not sure there is one. But if you think "turn them loose and don't assist them" will make the homeless just disappear, you don't understand the issue well.

Society has a lot of ways for people to help themselves. Some people are simply too broken to take advantage of them. For those, we have agencies that don't try to fix them. They offer compassion and try to ease suffering. Not because the homeless have done something to earn it, but because these agencies feel that all humans deserve that. You're free to disagree with that sentiment, Lord knows many here do.


You ignored where I said an assigned task that's conducive to their mental and physical abilities.
Everyone can do something.
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Re: Free homes for the homeless....

Postby JayByrd » Dec 2nd, 2017, 12:55 pm

Bman wrote:
You ignored where I said an assigned task that's conducive to their mental and physical abilities.
Everyone can do something.


Sounds great. Until one day they don't show up. Or they show up high. Or they get into a squabble with the person next to them and now no one's getting anything done.

Then what? They'll still be out there, doing what they did before. The only thing that will change, is you'll be able to shrug and say they had their chance. Is that all you want out of this?
God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in his shoes
'cause then you really might know what it's like to sing the blues.

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Re: Free homes for the homeless....

Postby Bpeep » Dec 2nd, 2017, 1:03 pm

I think the most restriction to the homeless issues is the far left dogma that we see more and more of.

If they refuse to abide, release them from their free amenities.
Even the world's biggest moron will soon figure out the no work no eat rules.
Theres no reason why people need to be harder to train than a chipmunk.
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Re: Free homes for the homeless....

Postby JayByrd » Dec 2nd, 2017, 1:24 pm

Bman wrote:I think the most restriction to the homeless issues is the far left dogma that we see more and more of.


Most people who end up on the streets are there because of substance or untreated (and sometimes undiagnosed) mental health issues. And most of those are rooted in a messed-up childhood. Broken people raising broken people. What does that have to do with far left dogma?

Far right dogma insists that the homeless are mostly lazy, and they sleep on the streets because it's easier than getting a job and paying for a home. That in most cases, kicking them in the butt and telling them to straighten up and fly right is really what's needed. It's just lip service though, and all it does is make rightists feel better about themselves. "I've done my part (by paying taxes) so whatever happens to them isn't my problem."

I don't believe providing basic shelter for the homeless population will really do much to change anyone's lifestyle, or put them on a better path. While it will reduce some suffering, which I'm generally in favour of, I worry it will be an administrative nightmare. I have a hard time squawking about my precious tax dollars though, when there are people sleeping under a tarp literally within sight of my home. If that's leftist dogma then I'll just have to live with it.
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Re: Free homes for the homeless....

Postby JayByrd » Dec 2nd, 2017, 1:29 pm

Bman wrote:
If they refuse to abide, release them from their free amenities.


Problem solved.

Even the world's biggest moron will soon figure out the no work no eat rules.
Theres no reason why people need to be harder to train than a chipmunk.


Oppositional defiance disorder, PTSD, FAS, schizophrenia, substance addiction, are all pretty good reasons. Perhaps you have experience dealing with dually-diagnosed persons that I don't know about, but I think there's a lot here you're overlooking. Actually unravelling the reasons why people ended up on the street gets pretty complicated. That's why no one's come up with a way to fix 'em.
God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in his shoes
'cause then you really might know what it's like to sing the blues.

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Re: Free homes for the homeless....

Postby alanjh595 » Dec 2nd, 2017, 1:41 pm

How about giving them jobs like sweeping the roads and sidewalks in their own neighbourhood? Snow removal, garbage pick-up, empty garbage collection bins, deliver the help wanted ads to all the other residents.
How about those that really want to work and help themselves up, sit out on the curb along Enterprise at 7AM with their lunch and safety vest on, and be ready to be picked up by a contractor that needs day labour to clean up construction sites?
Since these people are getting free everything supplied to them by us taxpayers, have their welfare checks deducted for the rent portion that is allowed?
Maybe set up a can recycling depot on-site and issue food vouchers in exchange for the recyclable cans and bottles that are returned?
Perhaps set-up an electronics waste recovery station where they can earn credits for time served to deconstruct and sort old computer parts before recycling?
AND as Bman suggested, some could stay in their house and weave baskets that could be sold through hardware and garden shops as flower baskets.
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Re: Free homes for the homeless....

Postby WalterWhite » Dec 2nd, 2017, 2:08 pm

Not all homeless are suffering from drug addictions/mental health issues. Many are more than capable of performing manual labour. Hell, if you can push a shopping cart loaded to the gunwales with your worldly possessions, then you can push a wheel barrow full of dirt or concrete.

The problem it seems is weeding the two apart from each other. Handing otherwise able bodied layabouts the required necessities of life without any means of giving a sense of value simply promotes self-entitled laziness. Look at a child brought up in the same environment, where everything required for life is handed to them without having to earn it - you'll have a spoiled little brat on your hands before you know it.

Why are we treating grown adults the same way, and then surprised at the outcome?
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Re: Free homes for the homeless....

Postby Piecemaker » Dec 2nd, 2017, 2:16 pm

alanjh595 wrote:How about giving them jobs like sweeping the roads and sidewalks in their own neighbourhood?
I actually saw a man who appeared to be homeless sweeping the sidewalk and street area near the Gospel Mission this week.
Snow removal, garbage pick-up, empty garbage collection bins, deliver the help wanted ads to all the other residents.
This work is done by city crews who would not like their jobs taken away.
How about those that really want to work and help themselves up, sit out on the curb along Enterprise at 7AM with their lunch and safety vest on, and be ready to be picked up by a contractor that needs day labour to clean up construction sites?
There are safety and financial rules and regulations for this, which is why contractors use businesses that provide day labour. Many of the homeless are not physically well or healthy. There are homeless individuals who work at day labour jobs.
Since these people are getting free everything supplied to them by us taxpayers, have their welfare checks deducted for the rent portion that is allowed? Those receiving Income Assistance don't get the part of their monthly cheque that is allotted for housing, if they don't have a residence. If they have housing, than the rent allotment is added to their cheque for them to pay their rent or paid directly to their landlord. Many of the homeless do not receive any income assistance because they either aren't eligible or cannot complete monthly reports and supply other paperwork required.
Maybe set up a can recycling depot on-site and issue food vouchers in exchange for the recyclable cans and bottles that are returned? There are already depots that give money for returns.
Perhaps set-up an electronics waste recovery station where they can earn credits for time served to deconstruct and sort old computer parts before recycling?
AND as Bman suggested, some could stay in their house and weave baskets that could be sold through hardware and garden shops as flower baskets.


Once a homeless person has a safe home, there are a myriad of other issues to sort through. Physical and mental health needs, addiction, life skills and job preparation and so on. Some of the homeless are pretty broken and messed up souls.
However, I do agree that each person should be able to improve their lot in life with support and contribute some how. Even if it is merely taking care of themselves. Some steps of success lead to bigger steps.
It's possible to do all the right things and still get a bad result.
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Re: Free homes for the homeless....

Postby JayByrd » Dec 2nd, 2017, 2:20 pm

alanjh595 wrote:How about giving them jobs like sweeping the roads and sidewalks in their own neighbourhood? Snow removal, garbage pick-up, empty garbage collection bins, deliver the help wanted ads to all the other residents.


Great idea. Do you mind if they only show up once and then never come back? Or if no one shows up at all? Because that's what you'll be looking at.

How about those that really want to work and help themselves up, sit out on the curb along Enterprise at 7AM with their lunch and safety vest on, and be ready to be picked up by a contractor that needs day labour to clean up construction sites?


We already have that. Someone with the wherewithal to do that kind of work might be poor, but probably at least has a roof over their head. They're not laying on the ground in a park, tweaking on meth. You're aiming at the wrong people here.

Since these people are getting free everything supplied to them by us taxpayers, have their welfare checks deducted for the rent portion that is allowed?


I keep hearing about this carefree, luxurious life that the homeless lead. Have you ever seen a street person and wondered where they got all that nice stuff? Me neither. Yes, there are agencies that will provide the basics of survival for little or no money. I don't think much of your precious tax dollars are going toward that though.

Maybe set up a can recycling depot on-site and issue food vouchers in exchange for the recyclable cans and bottles that are returned?


We have recycling depots that pay money for recyclables. There are people (some homeless, some not) who devote a lot of time to looking for refundable items. We get complaints that there are too many street people hanging around the bottle depots.

Perhaps set-up an electronics waste recovery station where they can earn credits for time served to deconstruct and sort old computer parts before recycling?


We already have this too. It's not electronics specifically, but SHARE depot offers this for basic work around their store.

There's nothing wrong with these ideas. No one (even leftist dogmas like myself) has a problem with people working their way out of poverty. And I'm not even saying that those unwilling to work, or who just don't have their poop together enough to even walk in the door, need to be provided with all the comforts of home. That's just not sustainable, and we do run the risk of making a homeless lifestyle attractive.

The homeless are a segment of our community who don't share the same values you and I do. The idea of working for a living, and having a normal, relatively comfortable life, is alien to them. These are mostly individuals who have given up on themselves. The opportunities you mention don't look like hope to them. They look like another set of hoops to jump through, another thing they will inevitably fail at. None of what you suggested will cure that.
God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in his shoes
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Re: Free homes for the homeless....

Postby Ken7 » Dec 2nd, 2017, 2:24 pm

voice of reason wrote:if we are going to give them mobile homes then we should stick them up near nunavut where they wont bother anyone and have no access to drugs and alcohol


I don't know but when you think of what they do get, is it anything more than our families who are third generation WELFARE or more politically correct Social Assistance?

I agree there should be a culling of both and really if you can contribute to society, maybe it is time they say we have work for you. For all of you who think rehabilitation is possible, think of the need to be someone. IF all you do is eat sleep and get high I really think your self esteem is ZERO. That may be why when they actually come off the high they say, wow what am I? Then the need to get high is back!

If you know anything about Maslow and the psychology of the human being these people some of them are missing it and maybe why they are where they are.

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Re: Free homes for the homeless....

Postby alanjh595 » Dec 2nd, 2017, 3:44 pm

Ken7 wrote:
voice of reason wrote:if we are going to give them mobile homes then we should stick them up near nunavut where they wont bother anyone and have no access to drugs and alcohol


I don't know but when you think of what they do get, is it anything more than our families who are third generation WELFARE or more politically correct Social Assistance?

I agree there should be a culling of both and really if you can contribute to society, maybe it is time they say we have work for you. For all of you who think rehabilitation is possible, think of the need to be someone. IF all you do is eat sleep and get high I really think your self esteem is ZERO. That may be why when they actually come off the high they say, wow what am I? Then the need to get high is back!

If you know anything about Maslow and the psychology of the human being these people some of them are missing it and maybe why they are where they are.


Thank you for the lead. I have looked it up and can relate to and understand the principle. The same goes for basic survival techniques when lost in the wilderness, where those of us that are trained for and conscious the importance these aspects are paramount to our ability and likelihood of our survival.
The conundrum then becomes when our inherent NEEDS for survival are removed and replaced by others that provide those basic survival needs out of what they feel is generosity, pity, or sympathy. Humans are interfering with the laws of natural selection. This trait is not exhibited by any other species on this planet.

In the case of druggies, they will give up ALL natural abilities and desires to survive, just to get the next high that has brought them to this point in life.

Maybe it is time to stop trying to fix these people and just let nature run it's course of selection? Time to stop delaying the inevitable and just "let go" of the lifeline.

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