BC Housing for Homeless for Kelowna okay'ed! Did you agree?

[alanjh595]

As usual i agree with some of your post. Where i differ . I think its better to get people off the street. I support forced rehab and work camps. Some people call that facist. I say. Ok fine. Its facist. Lets try it

If you knew what rehabilitation is, you'd know you can't force people to do it.

People won't accept rehab until they hit rock bottom.
BUT......you can raise the bottom to where they will voluntarily accept help.
Make life extremely difficult for them to continue down their chosen path. Provide a path that is more attractive for them to choose.

[bob vernon]

It's different if the housing is built by evil, leftist NDPs instead of compassionate Liberals.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/1 ... vale-opens

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/2 ... eless-vets

[tantor]

Well after reading comments on this forum I have to chime in. To those on their soap box speaking of compassion or greed of businesses. I happen to work at one of those businesses as do the other 25 people that work there. They have bills and families as most of us do. I am one of those who cleans up the discarded needles daily. Who at least a few times a month has received death threats and has had to go fisticuffs with a drugged out psycho's. Vehicles on our property are broken into regularly and our patrons are harassed and solicited almost daily. Garbage's are rummaged through and refuse is left scattered on our lot. Yes we lock the bins and yet they will use implements to bend the lid enough to get at their treasure. The owner took a business loan in the millions to try to make a go of running a business and employing a bunch of local people. This mortgage will be running for at least 10-20 years. Now move in the homeless. The property which is not yet owned will depreciate immediately, business will surely drop and patrons will seek a safer and more secure alternative. Compassion? I was approached a couple of weeks ago after picking up refuse with the owners young child who wanted to help (too cute of a preschooler) by a young homeless women distraught saying she lost something. After some prying I got it out of her that what she lost was a large bag of meth! We have patrons with young children daily! Such outstanding people! You Mr/Mrs compassion live in a bubble utopia where reality does not exist. Let's penalize new business owners and endanger some children or hard working citizens such as myself so that you can claim ownership of the moral high ground while taking zero of the risk or danger associated with doing so. Bravo. Truly a shining beacon to us all.

[the truth]

and what is are mayor doing to fix this issue---nothing-----

[JayByrd]

People won't accept rehab until they hit rock bottom.
BUT......you can raise the bottom to where they will voluntarily accept help.
Make life extremely difficult for them to continue down their chosen path. Provide a path that is more attractive for them to choose.

Extremely difficult...you mean like, living on the streets? Begging, committing petty crimes or selling their bodies to support their addiction? If that's not extremely difficult, then what is? Do you have something even worse in mind?

The life of recovery and becoming a good little capitalist with a job and a roof over your head is already more attractive. Those who are able to take that path, do so. The ones who are too broken to live that way, are the ones you see on the streets.

[Jflem1983]

People won't accept rehab until they hit rock bottom.
BUT......you can raise the bottom to where they will voluntarily accept help.
Make life extremely difficult for them to continue down their chosen path. Provide a path that is more attractive for them to choose.

Extremely difficult...you mean like, living on the streets? Begging, committing petty crimes or selling their bodies to support their addiction? If that's not extremely difficult, then what is? Do you have something even worse in mind?

The life of recovery and becoming a good little capitalist with a job and a roof over your head is already more attractive. Those who are able to take that path, do so. The ones who are too broken to live that way, are the ones you see on the streets.

I dunno. I see lots of ways things could be made difficult. For example. Groups of citizens could do neighborhood clean ups. Lots of people out with flashlights picking up trash. Police could actually arrest the zombies. Judges could jail them. After dealing with the same person a second time they could be taken out of town to walk it off . If that didnt work. Or if they returned and still were an issue. Well there is prison . I was a zombie once. I think if more were done to make it harder to be a low life there would be far less low life

[alanjh595]

People won't accept rehab until they hit rock bottom.
BUT......you can raise the bottom to where they will voluntarily accept help.
Make life extremely difficult for them to continue down their chosen path. Provide a path that is more attractive for them to choose.

Extremely difficult...you mean like, living on the streets? Begging, committing petty crimes or selling their bodies to support their addiction? If that's not extremely difficult, then what is? Do you have something even worse in mind?

The life of recovery and becoming a good little capitalist with a job and a roof over your head is already more attractive. Those who are able to take that path, do so. The ones who are too broken to live that way, are the ones you see on the streets.

Then raise the bottom even further at the same time offer them a way out. Show them the exit by getting just one to be brave enough to take the same path. That 1st success will tell 10 others of how much better their life could be if they take the same path.
The hard-core won't ever accept the path others that have never needed to take. They will never trust those of us that have not been in the same situation they are in currently.
They have given up on society and more importantly, given up on themselves. They didn't get there overnight and they won't get out overnight. To make their life easier will not help them to decide for themselves, to change.

[JayByrd]

The hard-core won't ever accept the path others that have never needed to take. They will never trust those of us that have not been in the same situation they are in currently.
They have given up on society and more importantly, given up on themselves. They didn't get there overnight and they won't get out overnight. To make their life easier will not help them to decide for themselves, to change.

I agree fully. But agencies that assist those at the bottom, aren't trying to cure them. They're just trying to reduce suffering and keep people alive. They do their best to connect people to resources if they want to use them, and they offer some hope to those who still seek it. But the worst of the worst is what you see on Leon every day. The ones who turn away from hope and second chances because they only know one way to live.

There was a well-known local homeless man who was able to get himself sorted, though I'm not certain if he had substance issues. He spoke at the opening of the New Gate Apartments.

[Prestige Mike]

I think the NIMBY attitude will always be a challenge to deal with. There are legitimate concerns about homeless populations moving into your peaceful and prosperous neighborhood.

That said, the research seems to show that a Housing First strategy does work.

Housing First reduces unnecessary emergency visits, leads to improved mental health outcomes, stabilizes and reduces addiction symptoms, and reduces client involvement with police and the criminal justice system. (http://www.homelesshub.ca/sites/default ... Canada.pdf)

[alanjh595]

I think the NIMBY attitude will always be a challenge to deal with. There are legitimate concerns about homeless populations moving into your peaceful and prosperous neighborhood.

On these points we agree. I have to side with the NIMBYs.
They have paid for their home in the location that they chose because there was no such homeless populations there at the time. For reasons beyond their control that changed and had devalued their investment, safety and security. Sometimes without notice. THAT is not fair.


That said, the research seems to show that a Housing First strategy does work.
That may be true, but at what cost to others? Why should the needs of the homeless be made more important and at the cost of those that were struggling to pay for the roof over their own heads, most with children.

Housing First reduces unnecessary emergency visits, leads to improved mental health outcomes, stabilizes and reduces addiction symptoms, and reduces client involvement with police and the criminal justice system. (http://www.homelesshub.ca/sites/default ... Canada.pdf)

Okay, fine, I can see the benefits of this type of program, but why does it have to negatively affect homeowners that are next door?
Why does the low person on the ladder deserve better than the one above? The one above IS trying to help the lower one up, why should they be have to pay?
WHY can't these people NEED to be integrated into neighbourhoods that don't want them there? You know that they will be watched like a hawk on a mouse. They will be watched under a microscope and I am sure that they will feel the pressure.

Isn't better to give the homeless/druggies access to the services they need/want, without being watched by those that want to watch and wait for them fail?

[AlienSoldier]

Many major cities have shelters in neighbourhoods which helps to support reduction in ghettos, give people a chance to live a more healthy life and benefit from higher social services that are based around middle and uppper income households. Most cities also have realized that this does not reduce their property values as many of these shelters have requirements for those staying there and also an increase in services and in surveillance from police.

[alanjh595]

What Kelowna is offering does NOT meet any of the aforementioned criteria.

[nbald]

Canada should take care of ALL citizens. Rather than build apartments to house the homeless, build it into our social system. Make sure everyone has a place to live, food and health care. No need to group them in as bad people. Lets take care of our own.

[nbald]

If you can work, if you can walk, if you can talk there is no reason for you to be homeless, unless you have mental health issues. You do what it takes to keep a roof over your head, that is how I was raised, do what it takes by any means to keep a full belly and a roof over your head.

You're right, but remember that "what it took" when you were raised is a full time job. Now with housing prices in Kelowna and Vancouver, one full time job at even above minimum wage is often not enough.

So really, people now are expected often to do far more than you were raised to for a roof over their heads and food.

Lots of people who can't walk or talk still work. What the hell are you talking about?

[Postie307]

The man who seems to be a spokesman for the homeless and calls himself Rickie Karaszi is the same Richard Karaszi who physically and mentally abused his senior mother for years. Made her give him money and eventually beat her up so bad she nearly died and was in hospital for quite some time. He has been homeless for 19 months because of decisions he made not because the system failed him.