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What to do ?

What to do ?

Postby dogspoiler » Nov 30th, 2017, 12:59 pm

When the residents of a town spend their own time to participate in the creation of an Official Community Plan, make zoning plans, population density plans, and building height restrictions in concert with the town council. What should they expect ?

I would expect the Mayor, Council, And town staff to adhere to the plans and wishes of the residents.

I would not expect these people to disregard all of these plans and grant an out of town developer every zoning and bylaw change he requested for a building that radically differs from the planned and acceptable development.

The problems with this development have not been addressed in a proper and conscientious manner, but the council has approved it.

What to do ?
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Re: What to do ?

Postby Bpeep » Nov 30th, 2017, 1:19 pm

Why would they ever start listening to those who vote them in.
The whole local community was against that apartment for recovering addicts on mccurdy and rutlad rds but the cok pushed that thru.
Govt has their own agenda.
They care not at all about what the public thinks, unless an election is near.
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Re: What to do ?

Postby dirtybiker » Nov 30th, 2017, 1:46 pm

I have spent so much time researching, pondering, and down right brain -wracking
to be as well informed, looking from all sides, pro's and con's.

Been to Council Meetings, stood and had my say on several different projects.

Only once did it seem that anyone REALLY listened.

Likely because that once, the room was not stacked with professional presenters
plugging on behalf of the project.

I pretty much all but give up trying to be heard, by them, in person.

I suspect that is what they are after, the general public tiring and giving up.

Then they can carry on as they please.
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Re: What to do ?

Postby kgcayenne » Nov 30th, 2017, 2:15 pm

Is it all about the money? It would be interesting to know what the difference in DCC CEC charges would be between a 3 storey proposal and the current 5 storey.

OCPs are wastes of money; they're lip service, and that is it. It's fairly obvious now that developers in the Okanagan control the bumpkins on council of the various Cities, not the people.
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Re: What to do ?

Postby TMBOkanagan » Nov 30th, 2017, 3:10 pm

Is there a specific situation we are talking about?
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Re: What to do ?

Postby kgcayenne » Nov 30th, 2017, 3:15 pm

peachtree%20render.jpg


This is a 5 storey development on Beach Avenue that has had variances granted (height & setbacks) despite community opposition.

https://www.castanet.net/news/West-Kelo ... evelopment
A group calling itself the Friends of Beach Avenue has filed a civil suit in Kamloops Supreme Court against the District of Peachland and a Lower Mainland developer.
At issue is a proposed five-storey, mixed-use retail, commercial and residential complex at the corner of Beach Avenue and 4th Street in Peachland.
The group says the development contravenes Peachland's Official Community Plan, Neighbourhood Plan and Downtown Plan, which all state Beach Avenue development should be restricted to three storeys.
It's asking the courts to instruct the district and the developer to comply with the OCP.
Peachland council recently approved the development.
A spokesman for the developer says the project is "literally a turning point" for the future of Peachland's core commercial area.
It would include retail shops on the main floor, second-floor office space, with 10 to 12 large family units designed for "year-round living."
Randy Brophy, who moved to Peachland two years ago and built a home just blocks from the proposed development, says he feels betrayed by the municipality.
Brophy says he feels the community has not been heard in its opposition, saying a public hearing on the matter was held during the midst of this year's record flood, when people most affected were not able to attend, and a petition with more than 500 signatures was ignored.
He adds OCP documents dating back to 2002 and updated seven years ago, state Beach Avenue developments should be restricted to three storeys.
He says a lawyer who represented Penticton residents in their fight against a controversial Skaha Marina development agreed to take their case.
"without knowledge, he multiplies mere words."
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Re: What to do ?

Postby Even Steven » Nov 30th, 2017, 3:27 pm

Community plans are not set in stone and change depending on community needs...
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Re: What to do ?

Postby kgcayenne » Nov 30th, 2017, 3:32 pm

by 'community needs' do you mean 'developer wants'?

What NEED do two extra storeys and zero setbacks fulfil?
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Re: What to do ?

Postby Even Steven » Nov 30th, 2017, 3:36 pm

kgcayenne wrote:by 'community needs' do you mean 'developer wants'?


Developers most of the time want way more than council gives. So, whatever design they came up with - that's the result of the city staff working with them to bring it as close as possible to the community plan. City council have a big picture of city development to think about. And if this particular development fits the vision for the city, and community plan will be adjusted and people will get on with their lives.
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Re: What to do ?

Postby kgcayenne » Nov 30th, 2017, 3:45 pm

I notice my question went unanswered.

mmmmhmmmmmmm (puts on bitchwings) < x >
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Re: What to do ?

Postby spooker » Nov 30th, 2017, 3:56 pm

Went before council this summer with a similar argument against the ELLA proposal and the street scaping design that was in the development permit ... broke the OCP, P&CMP, and DP ... just wanted the attachment removed from the permit ... nope, didn't happen ... it seemed like a couple of councilors understood, but it was deemed not important ...

I'm hoping that Ellis doesn't become the :cuss: shown in the plan ... Bernard is already dangerous enough ...
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Re: What to do ?

Postby dirtybiker » Nov 30th, 2017, 3:57 pm

They full fill every sq. mm of available land.

Likely full fill plenty of coffers too.

Full Fill the sky-line, and full fill the streets since they full filled the land as to
not have any on site, off street parking for all those businesses, offices and
dwellings.
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Re: What to do ?

Postby Even Steven » Nov 30th, 2017, 4:38 pm

kgcayenne wrote:I notice my question went unanswered.


I think you're just intolerant of anyone's opinion that doesn't match yours. I tried to explain to you how things work, but it fell on deaf ears.

Oh well.
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Re: What to do ?

Postby lightspeed » Nov 30th, 2017, 6:03 pm

kgcayenne wrote:Is it all about the money? It would be interesting to know what the difference in DCC CEC charges would be between a 3 storey proposal and the current 5 storey.

OCPs are wastes of money; they're lip service, and that is it. It's fairly obvious now that developers in the Okanagan control the bumpkins on council of the various Cities, not the people.



Kelowna Council ignores the OCP. Lake Country ignores the OCP. Peachland ignores the OCP.

Just what is the point. Districts and Cities oppress their residents and taxpayers pretty much constantly with no accountability.
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Re: What to do ?

Postby LANDM » Nov 30th, 2017, 6:15 pm

kgcayenne wrote:Is it all about the money? It would be interesting to know what the difference in DCC CEC charges would be between a 3 storey proposal and the current 5 storey.

OCPs are wastes of money; they're lip service, and that is it. It's fairly obvious now that developers in the Okanagan control the bumpkins on council of the various Cities, not the people.


Ok, I’ll bite on answering your questions.
Yes. It is generally all about the money because these are business ventures.
The difference in DCC's would be simply the number of additional units multiplied by the multi family DCC per unit amount for that location.
OCP's never have and never should be thought of as being cast in stone and unchangeable. They are prepared for decades in the future and updated occasionally (at regular intervals). They are generalized and cannot capture every nuance about possibilities that could make more sense in the future.
Anyone can apply for a variance to or a change in the OCP. This is done regularly and it would be stupid if a municipality said that they would not consider a change in a generalized document that may not have been updated for a number of years.
It is not obvious at all that developers control council, nor is it obvious that council is comprised only of bumpkins. Everyone is entitled to run for council (subject to obvious restrictions) and it is a pretty thankless job.
It is also up to staff to fully comment on requests for variances and changes. It will never be solely determined by council.

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