Ban the bike!

[60-YEARS-in-Ktown]

What are motorists bringing to the table ? The cars may be built safer, but they have no choice but to buy what exists.
Cyclists are on far better bikes than when the basic rules were written , they are far more capable.
There is Better saftey gear out there for cyclists, should you choose to wear it, so yes..some are bringing that to the table.
The dooring thing ....many cars are harder to see into from the cyclists viewpoint..and drivers seems less inclined to pay attention and or be electronically distracted while stopped adding to the problem.
Did anyone in the 70,s ever sit in their cars fiddling with their electronic handheld devices before exiting their cars..?

[dirtybiker]

Very solid and true points, as previously pointed out, and now again.
Yes, vehicles are tougher to see into with window tinting and wraps of every description.
Also true about the oversized headrests that makes it nigh on impossible to see a head in the seat.
The electronic thing also rings true.

But none of this should be lost on anyone.

It just screams of the greater demand on the part of cyclists to be even more vigilant
in their pursuit of self preservation.

Even when the cyclist is in the right, dead right is no way to be.

[spooker]

It just screams of the greater demand on the part of cyclists to be even more vigilant
in their pursuit of self preservation.

Even when the cyclist is in the right, dead right is no way to be.

Because drivers aren't held responsible for making certain they aren't going do something that will affect another road user cyclists should just rachet up their paranoia factor ... yep, that's the world I want to live in ...

When I ride Bernard from Gordon to Richter I can either be in the middle of the lane or I can be off to right, closer to the parked cars. Due to the fact that I cannot be certain that someone isn't sitting in their vehicle answering that last text message they were sent I should be riding at least 1.5m away from the parked cars, this pretty much puts me in the middle of the lane. When I ride in the middle of the lane I have cars crowding me and I can only imagine the cussing either vocalised or not behind the steering wheel.

Where would you prefer me to ride?

I use this to illustrate the short-end of the stick that cyclists get ... we don't want to be "dead right" (that's a really tired and overused argument that means nothing anyway) ... we want to have a safe environment to get around ... why does choosing something like cycling mean automatically that you're at the mercy of other people who aren't paying attention? it's no wonder that cycling isn't seen as a reasonable choice for so many people, they look at the safety factor, get scared, and get back into their cars ... we keep paying thousands of dollars per year to companies (car manufaturers, petrol producers, insurance providers) because we don't create alternatives that have a chance of succeeding ...

[dirtybiker]

Why ride Bernard ?

Why not one of the quieter parallel streets that would have a lesser degree of
vehicle/cycle interaction.

I ride, my Family rides.
There are right and wrong places to ride.

Just because it's legal, doesn't mean it's right, or safe.

Take some responsibility for yourself.

[Urban Cowboy]

You know spooker many many who are now up in years, did a significant amount of bike riding in years gone by, and I'd count myself among those.

Why do I mention that you wonder? Well my point is that thanks to common sense, constant situational awareness, and a strong survival desire, I'm still here, as are many others of my generation, and we didn't have it nearly as good as you do right now.

I had no bicycle lanes, heck in many instances I didn't even have a decent road shoulder, what there was often being gravel, and unless I had a desire to be mowed down by a gravel truck, or other big rig, I used that shoulder often to give them right of way.

If I'm not mistaken I believe the regulations even state that's how bicycle riders are to conduct themselves, yet when I drive around these parts, I rarely note any riders conducting themselves as though they know these rules.

There's no counting how many times I see riders two or even three abreast, and even when you know full well that they can hear a vehicle approaching from behind, they make no effort to get out of the way, but rather behave as though they own the road.

At this point, I can't help but have this feeling that bike riders wouldn't be happy no matter how much conditions improve.

I chalk this up to a faulty mindset, and unwillingness to accept their place in the pecking order of transportation options.

[dirtybiker]

At this point, I can't help but have this feeling that bike riders wouldn't be happy no matter how much conditions improve.

I chalk this up to a faulty mindset, and unwillingness to accept their place in the pecking order of transportation options.

^^^^^

Eloquently put....

[spooker]

Why ride Bernard ?

Why not one of the quieter parallel streets that would have a lesser degree of
vehicle/cycle interaction.

I ride, my Family rides.
There are right and wrong places to ride.

Just because it's legal, doesn't mean it's right, or safe.

Take some responsibility for yourself.

You're making the point that riding a bike is a second-class activity ... as a cyclist I'm required to ride farther out of my way to stay safe ... I'm asking why? ... I'm trying to solve the congestion drivers complain about ... I'm trying to make sure I don't overuse the medical services ... since the SOV is now the greatest contributor of CO2, greater than power plants, I'd like to think there's something good about riding a bike ... and I'm keeping myself happy so I don't "rage" dealing with other road users ...

You know spooker many many who are now up in years, did a significant amount of bike riding in years gone by, and I'd count myself among those.

Why do I mention that you wonder? Well my point is that thanks to common sense, constant situational awareness, and a strong survival desire, I'm still here, as are many others of my generation, and we didn't have it nearly as good as you do right now.

I remember what it was like back when I started riding almost 50 years ago ... and yes, I'm still out there riding everywhere as I did back then ... but I also see the changes in traffic and wonder where the heck we went wrong, it's not even close to being as friendly as it was back then ... no, what we dealt with as cyclists back then is not comparable to what we have today ... the environment we had back then was better than what we have now ...

At this point, I can't help but have this feeling that bike riders wouldn't be happy no matter how much conditions improve.

I chalk this up to a faulty mindset, and unwillingness to accept their place in the pecking order of transportation options.

Great to know you subscribe to the "might makes right" crowd ... as a cyclist I'm legally told where I am in the pecking order -- "a person operating a cycle on a highway has the same rights and duties as a driver of a vehicle." -- but then the way roads are built tells me to stay the hell away, and drivers are always glad to remind me ... you wonder why cyclists seem crazy? we're just trying to get from point A to point B and everything tells us to get back in our car ...

[Tootsie]

[quote
You're making the point that riding a bike is a second-class activity nobody said that
... as a cyclist I'm required to ride farther out of my way to stay safe ... I'm asking why? Ummm to stay safe maybe ? I'm trying to solve the congestion drivers complain about ... I'm trying to make sure I don't overuse the medical services Well you will if you continue to use the busiest roads and get hit, with other side roads as options...

I think bike riders need to realize that they need to bend a bit and maybe taking the busiest roads, just because you CAN, may not be the best option. Even as a kid we were taught that. Don't take unneccessary risks on your bike. As a previous poster suggested,there are usually side paralled streets you you can deek off to & ride safely on. Might made your ride a couple of minutes longer but better to get there in one piece - no? Glenmore would NOT be one of those. Why those idiots cyclists continue that death wish on that stretch of road north of the dump astounds me. There are plenty of other roads to cycle on. Why choose that one?

[spooker]

Please try and use the quote feature properly ... makes it easier for others to read ...

You're making the point that riding a bike is a second-class activity

nobody said that

I can't use streets that provide a straight route between my location and my destination ... that's what is being said ... sure reminds me of "sit in the back of the bus" attitudes ... I pay for the roads just as much as anyone else, but because people are either not paying attention or have an angry reaction to me it's "suggested" that I get out of the way ...

Glenmore would NOT be one of those. Why those idiots cyclists continue that death wish on that stretch of road north of the dump astounds me. There are plenty of other roads to cycle on. Why choose that one?

There are two options to get from Kelowna to Winfield ...

1) Highway 97
2) Glenmore Rd

There are cyclists in both camps, feeling that one is more safe than the other ... unfortunately neither can be considered "safe" (I've used both) ... it'll be great to get the Rail Trail and have a real option ...

Heck ... I've ridden from Kelowna to Peachland and while the section of the highway after the mill where the connector splits off is filled with plenty of cars whizzing by at 120kph it is possible to get through safely without disrupting traffic or leaving a streak in my shorts ...

[Urban Cowboy]

Great to know you subscribe to the "might makes right" crowd ... as a cyclist I'm legally told where I am in the pecking order --

I don't subscribe to anything other than recognizing we are all somewhere in the pecking order, and it's best if we recognize and accept it.

For example bicycle trumps pedestrian, car trumps bicycle, full sized sedan trumps smart car, SUV trumps car, F350 trumps SUV, car, bicycle, and pedestrian, trucks/big rigs trump everything smaller than them, and finally train trumps everything. See there's quite a few positions in the pecking order.

"a person operating a cycle on a highway has the same rights and duties as a driver of a vehicle." -- but then the way roads are built tells me to stay the hell away, and drivers are always glad to remind me ... you wonder why cyclists seem crazy? we're just trying to get from point A to point B and everything tells us to get back in our car ...

Sorry but the roads these days are built quite a bit better than they were fifty years ago, thus I don't quite follow your "the way roads are built" remark.

As for the same rights and duties as a driver of a vehicle, yes I agree, but I sure hope you aren't suggesting that bike riders abide by those rules? I see plenty of sketchy drivers out and about each day, yet for the number of bikes on the road, the ratio of disregard for the rules is astronomical.

I don't see cars approaching a red light, then scooting up the sidewalk and shooting across the road to go around the light, instead of waiting like the rest of us, or better yet dismounting and walking their bike across the intersection as they are supposed to do if they are using the pedestrian paths.

Ever consider that maybe part of the problem, is drivers get tired of seeing bicyclists behaving as though they are entitled, and thus toss a little disrespect their way?

[Queen K]

Every time I read Rwede's "Ban the bike" title, images of a civil police force chasing down gangs of cycling teenagers who are in open civil disobediance for using their bikes on the roads. Illegal bikes being confiscated and melted down as examples to those who still harbour illegal contraband with rubber wheels, hanging in attics until such time Rwede lifts his edict. Or cyclists traveling dark at night, no night lights or reflective gear to give them away to authorities. I see fines being increased for every misdemeanor for being caught tearing up the roads, failing to contribute to road taxes for building and repairs and needing to pay for the "Ban the Bike" program. Of course it's called the euphemistic "Save the Roads." Cyclists are sent to re-education programs showing them what their lungs look like after breathing in vehicle fumes and they're forced to look at images of "dooring" victims. Bike shops are now treated like Pot shop, oh wait, pot is now legal Medical pot shops now can get licenses while cycle shops are shut down and forced to operate out of garages with secret codes and word of mouth advertising. Because bicycles are now banned, the border guards are now looking for anything "bike related" to stop at the border and some "Prince of Bikes" is jailed in the USA for repeated offenses.

Civil disobedience is not marching against unjust laws, it's cycling against them! Cyclists United!

All this until Rwede lifts his "Ban the Bike" edict and allows bikes back into a civil society.

[spooker]

For example bicycle trumps pedestrian, car trumps bicycle, full sized sedan trumps smart car, SUV trumps car, F350 trumps SUV, car, bicycle, and pedestrian, trucks/big rigs trump everything smaller than them, and finally train trumps everything. See there's quite a few positions in the pecking order.

And commercial truck drivers are taught to watch out for smaller vehicles ... whenever I'm working with cyclists I try to impart our responsibility for pedestrians ... the higher levels have a responsibility towards those "lower in the pecking order" ... "with great power comes great responsibility" -- Uncle Ben

Ever consider that maybe part of the problem, is drivers get tired of seeing bicyclists behaving as though they are entitled, and thus toss a little disrespect their way?

Whenever some trots out the "entitled" label I have to laugh ... people in cars have just as much "entitled" behaviour if not more ... demanding more lanes because they're "inconvenienced" by congestion that they create ... demanding pedestrians and cyclists wear special clothing so they can be spotted easier over the glare from their cellphones ... god forbid someone actually suggest a lower speed limit in places to help the odds of vulnerable road users surviving the "carmageddon" that passes as traffic out there ...

Drivers see what they want to see ... studies have shown that "people" break the rules at the same rate no matter their mode of transportation ... other studies have shown that most of us suffer from "confirmation bias" which distorts the number of people we see breaking the rules ...

Does a driver speed because they fear for their safety? Do drivers run the yellow/red light because they're certain to get rear-ended by the car behind? Yet, the main reason I hear from cyclists who ride on the sidewalk are that they don't trust drivers ... and while the majority of people in cars are just fine, it's that small percentage that are texting on their phones, that are not paying full attention, that create this fear in a person on a bike ...

[delSol97]

As we introduce more and more anti-idling bylaws to keep our air cleaner, every "new" road construction in this town seems to be promoting congestion. Forgetting about all the new additional lights and any thought of having a 4-lane road ever again, of particular annoyance to me is the removal of right-hand turn lanes in the interest of "biker safety".

When you add in that many of these intersections have "green bike lanes" for a whole 10 feet and no right hand turn on red ... the road between these intersections don't even have a bike path ... some of the decision making is odd at best around here.

[delSol97]

And commercial truck drivers are taught to watch out for smaller vehicles ... whenever I'm working with cyclists I try to impart our responsibility for pedestrians ... the higher levels have a responsibility towards those "lower in the pecking order"

They may be "taught it" but take a drive on the Coquihalla in adverse conditions and you won't see it. The behaviour of commercial truck drivers out there is appalling particularly in poor weather conditions.

They clearly show little respect for the other users of the road out there, and I can only guess that they blast through heavy fog at 120+ and send rocks and slush flying over other vehicles because if there is a pile-up down the road they know they'll survive.

[delSol97]

What are motorists bringing to the table ?

Considering very few people in this society are self-sufficient, a whole lot more than cyclists.

Do your groceries or building supplies supplies get delivered by bicycle?
Do fire-fighters show up on bicycles?
Do paramedics rush your wife going in to labor to the hospital on a bicycle?

I think it's pretty easy to come up with a significantly longer list that "motorists" bring to the table over cyclists.