Corps of Commisionaires nit picking

Corps of Commisionaires nit picking

Postby westbankkid » Dec 14th, 2017, 12:22 pm

I see the commisionaire hiarchy are running scared re: jail guards. Challenging the Union because the notice was emailed and not faxed. Pay them a decent wage. I hate Unions but I hope the Union wins their case. We should know today.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/2 ... ail-strike

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Re: Corps of Commisionaires nit picking

Postby soupy » Dec 14th, 2017, 2:37 pm

That is quite sad that they have to delay the strike based on email instead of fax.
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Re: Corps of Commisionaires nit picking

Postby forumdoug » Dec 15th, 2017, 9:47 am

This would set a bad precedent if CUPE is allowed to create de facto highly paid civil servants via the "back door" if starting wages are bumped up in to the low to mid $20 per hour range. Their idea of what a "living wage" in Kelowna is overly inflated as it makes a lot of assumptions, such as the cost of housing whilst not taking into account housing outside of the city or a myriad rental accommodation options. Moreover, they always inflate these things! :(

These jail guards are not "jail guards," per se, but rather monitors from a control room who monitor prisoner statuses, presumably, via CCTV and also deliver meals through, presumably, some sort of delivery slot in the door. They are not jail guards like BC Corrections or you see on those shows like Lockup or Lockdown (or whatever, pick your reality TV show!).

They do perform escorts, but only as a supportive second or third person. All escorts are handled by RCMP members, per their job description.

Do they deserve a shift premium for graveyard shifts? Yes. Do they deserve company matching group RRSP contributions? That'd be my preference. What should their starting wage be for non-graveyard shifts? $14-17.50 per hour, no more and no less.

To pay them too much defeats the purpose of cost savings for taxpayers and also puts Commissionaires BC at a distinct financial disadvantage when their contract comes up for renewal and, let's say, Securiguard or acquisitive Paladin Security make runs at it. Moreover, I have to ask, if we paid them a starting wage of $26+ per hour plus benefits, at that rate, why not just bring in additional RCMP members? Surely at that rate you're getting close to a rookie RCMP member's salary. ;)

Sending the 72-hour strike notice via e-mail shows the complete incompetence of the union either for: (a) not knowing the correct procedure or (b) not supporting their union local reps & board by advising of correct procedures. Glad the LRB rescinded it. :)

Cheers,
Doug

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Re: Corps of Commisionaires nit picking

Postby FreeRights » Dec 15th, 2017, 12:17 pm

forumdoug wrote:This would set a bad precedent if CUPE is allowed to create de facto highly paid civil servants via the "back door" if starting wages are bumped up in to the low to mid $20 per hour range. Their idea of what a "living wage" in Kelowna is overly inflated as it makes a lot of assumptions, such as the cost of housing whilst not taking into account housing outside of the city or a myriad rental accommodation options. Moreover, they always inflate these things! :(

These jail guards are not "jail guards," per se, but rather monitors from a control room who monitor prisoner statuses, presumably, via CCTV and also deliver meals through, presumably, some sort of delivery slot in the door. They are not jail guards like BC Corrections or you see on those shows like Lockup or Lockdown (or whatever, pick your reality TV show!).

They do perform escorts, but only as a supportive second or third person. All escorts are handled by RCMP members, per their job description.

Do they deserve a shift premium for graveyard shifts? Yes. Do they deserve company matching group RRSP contributions? That'd be my preference. What should their starting wage be for non-graveyard shifts? $14-17.50 per hour, no more and no less.

To pay them too much defeats the purpose of cost savings for taxpayers and also puts Commissionaires BC at a distinct financial disadvantage when their contract comes up for renewal and, let's say, Securiguard or acquisitive Paladin Security make runs at it. Moreover, I have to ask, if we paid them a starting wage of $26+ per hour plus benefits, at that rate, why not just bring in additional RCMP members? Surely at that rate you're getting close to a rookie RCMP member's salary. ;)

Sending the 72-hour strike notice via e-mail shows the complete incompetence of the union either for: (a) not knowing the correct procedure or (b) not supporting their union local reps & board by advising of correct procedures. Glad the LRB rescinded it. :)

Cheers,
Doug

Well said.

It's challenging to be in that industry (contract security) while also being unionized. This case is a good example - security companies bill out their services on an hourly rate, and within that hourly rate, the employee's pay (plus all other fees that become the burden rate) deducted, is what the company makes. Now granted this is a government contract, so I'd guess the billing rate is $26/hr or thereabouts, but I don't think unions have business trying to influence a company's profit/loss. Defending an employee's workplace rights is one thing, but trying to force themselves into the business side is something else.

The other thing that irks me - and we also saw it with the BCTF - is essentially these unions speaking negatively toward the corporations that they work for. Whether what they say is true or not, these conversations are meant for a boardroom or a court room to settle - not on media front pages.
Come quickly Jesus, we're barely holding on.

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Re: Corps of Commisionaires nit picking

Postby khutchi » Dec 15th, 2017, 1:15 pm

forumdoug wrote:if starting wages are bumped up in to the low to mid $20 per hour range.


But they are not asking for this. They want a $2/hour wage increase.

FreeRights wrote: I don't think unions have business trying to influence a company's profit/loss. Defending an employee's workplace rights is one thing, but trying to force themselves into the business side is something else. .


I disagree . It is the unions business to influence P/L because that's the only thing that businesses respond to or understand. If they don't try to wedge themselves into business they would simply be relying on the altruism and kind-heartedness of employers. If this was the approach unions had taken throughout history, they truly would be useless entities.

The commissionaires deserve more for what they do and this is understood by almost every other municipality in BC. No one is asking for $26/hour. Not sure where this number comes from .

Offering notice by email may demonstrate incompetence by the union (except it really doesn't, its 2017!). Challenging because of the method or transmission is a gross reason to delay the strike. Will surely backfire on them. Good for their lawyers though
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Re: Corps of Commisionaires nit picking

Postby FreeRights » Dec 15th, 2017, 1:48 pm

khutchi wrote:Offering notice by email may demonstrate incompetence by the union (except it really doesn't, its 2017!). Challenging because of the method or transmission is a gross reason to delay the strike. Will surely backfire on them. Good for their lawyers though

It may be 2017, but surely their own collective bargaining agreement would clearly outline the process to notify for strike action.

I don't know, I'm not even sure how a union should have access to privileged information like billable rates and financial reports (because contract revenues apply to one another).
Come quickly Jesus, we're barely holding on.

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Re: Corps of Commisionaires nit picking

Postby forumdoug » Dec 16th, 2017, 12:37 pm

khutchi wrote:But they are not asking for this. They want a $2/hour wage increase.


Thank you...and their starting salary is? I'd say "split the difference" and give them $1.00 over a 3 year minimum contract. In exchange for that, language in terms of termination as a result of the loss of the security contract should be either maintained or weakened. :)

FreeRights wrote: I don't think unions have business trying to influence a company's profit/loss. Defending an employee's workplace rights is one thing, but trying to force themselves into the business side is something else. .


Completely agree! In a non-unionized workplace, I would be given, at a minimum, a verbal reprimand and, at worst, some sort of written reprimand, possibly with a "thou shall not do this again or face termination" note attached to it. :(

If they want to speak out like this, then legislation should be strengthened to permit employees to chastise their employer in their off-hours without fear or reprisal. :)

Cheers,
Doug

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Re: Corps of Commisionaires nit picking

Postby forumdoug » Dec 16th, 2017, 12:43 pm

khutchi wrote:I disagree . It is the unions business to influence P/L because that's the only thing that businesses respond to or understand. If they don't try to wedge themselves into business they would simply be relying on the altruism and kind-heartedness of employers. If this was the approach unions had taken throughout history, they truly would be useless entities.

The commissionaires deserve more for what they do and this is understood by almost every other municipality in BC. No one is asking for $26/hour. Not sure where this number comes from .

Offering notice by email may demonstrate incompetence by the union (except it really doesn't, its 2017!). Challenging because of the method or transmission is a gross reason to delay the strike. Will surely backfire on them. Good for their lawyers though

Umm.. they kinda are, based upon the newspaper and digital advertisements that compare jail guard salaries in other B.C. local government jurisdictions. Whether explicit or implied, that's certainly what they'd like. And, that's just greedy. :)

And, unions kinda are useless nowadays - they're fighting for relevance now that most of the main, big fights have been won - and I thank them for that! If they really had altruistic, as you say, intentions, they'd be operating by donation as charitable entities for union- and non-union workplaces and advocating for things like shift differentials for graveyard shifts, an end to "short notice" required call-in shifts, an end to split same-day shifts and increased free arbitration proceedings against current and former employers without the need to initiate costly legal action, for all workplaces and workers instead of incredibly self-serving things like trying to protect gold-plated DB pensions and retiree health & dental benefits no one else gets! :(

Cheers,
Doug

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Re: Corps of Commisionaires nit picking

Postby entertained » Dec 16th, 2017, 8:27 pm

well Doug...I did this job for 8 years prior to the commissionaires. You are partly right but I did encounter violent situations almost every shift. I would never do that job for what they are being paid. There is a lot more to the job then what you explained. I think I was paid 22-24 per hour and some nights that wasn't enough. I think the best way to resolve this is to let the higher ranked decision makers do it for a week and then they would have a :up: right to an opinion. What do you think Doug?

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Re: Corps of Commisionaires nit picking

Postby forumdoug » Dec 18th, 2017, 9:24 am

entertained wrote:well Doug...I did this job for 8 years prior to the commissionaires. You are partly right but I did encounter violent situations almost every shift. I would never do that job for what they are being paid. There is a lot more to the job then what you explained. I think I was paid 22-24 per hour and some nights that wasn't enough. I think the best way to resolve this is to let the higher ranked decision makers do it for a week and then they would have a :up: right to an opinion. What do you think Doug?


When public transit service is increased to offer, at a minimum, 60 minute service on any route and on any day & time, in the Central Okanagan and the span of service increased to offer Monday-Thursday 4 am-1 am service, Friday & Saturday 4 am to 2 am service and Sundays & Statutory Holidays 6 am to 12 pm service, transit drivers get a much need boost to wages + end to temporary/contract part-time positions and additional sidewalks, bicycle paths and pedestrian infrastructure are added, then, and only then, can we look at boosting contracted jail guard service wage rates. :)

Cheers,
Doug
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