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Traffic fines should not go to the city

Re: Traffic fines should not go to the city

Postby monroe » Dec 15th, 2017, 8:24 am

The whole thing comes off awkward but shes only stating the obvious. This is a revenue stream govt relies on. Speeding and other offences that draw fines will never go away. They cant.

The h3ll with Photo radar but its cheaper than bringing on more human captial to police. ... i believe Gayle is only thinking Bang-for-Buck.

Someone posted an article detailing police presence per capita. I think kelowna was one of the lowest.

Im not sure whether the decision to bring on more rcmp is local or federal or what but if i needed to draw in more busienss, hiring more "sales associates" would be one way to get there ... :D
Last edited by monroe on Dec 15th, 2017, 8:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Traffic fines should not go to the city

Postby Jflem1983 » Dec 15th, 2017, 8:27 am

Just think of the old blue hairs driving 39 up springfield. With photo radar it will be even harder to get around them.
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Re: Traffic fines should not go to the city

Postby LivinginKelowna » Dec 15th, 2017, 8:47 am

Photo Radar is a cash cow, nothing more.

It does nothing to change the immediate actions of those behind the wheel, it doesn't catch drunks or stoners. It sure as heck doesn't stop the person doing 20, 30 or 50 over the limit in town. I don't even think that there is a way other than monetary to penalize the driver. They do not get demerit points and therefor cannot lose their license if they are a repeat offender.

want to make a positive change, make it harder to get a license and if you lose it, make it substantially harder to get it back.

Perhaps it is time to employ people to just drive around and watch for infractions that are dangerous to the public. You make a turn without a signal light, or run a red or a stop sign or cut someone off, you get followed for 5-10 minutes. If within that 10 minutes you continue to exhibit these poor driving habits, you go for a test, a very hard test. Fail, no driving for you.

Create a system where people are rewarded for good driving habits, setup cameras around town that send out notices of adhering to the speed limit, using signal lights to turn corners, change lanes, then adjust the insurance rates for those that are being responsible members of the community.

Algorithms with modern cameras can easily be setup to accomplish these things

if people don't want big brother watching over them 24/7, then they need to start to police themselves

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Re: Traffic fines should not go to the city

Postby monroe » Dec 15th, 2017, 9:13 am

LivinginKelowna wrote:want to make a positive change, make it harder to get a license and if you lose it, make it substantially harder to get it back
.

You had me.

LivinginKelowna wrote:Perhaps it is time to employ people to just drive around and watch for infractions that are dangerous to the public. You make a turn without a signal light, or run a red or a stop sign or cut someone off, you get followed for 5-10 minutes. If within that 10 minutes you continue to exhibit these poor driving habits, you go for a test, a very hard test. Fail, no driving for you.


You lost me.


A system of people ratting each other out will never work. Cost and credibility are two of a few reasons ... not to mention, im sure no one wants to live in that kind of world.
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Re: Traffic fines should not go to the city

Postby CapitalB » Dec 15th, 2017, 9:27 am

LivinginKelowna wrote:Photo Radar is a cash cow, nothing more.

It does nothing to change the immediate actions of those behind the wheel, it doesn't catch drunks or stoners. It sure as heck doesn't stop the person doing 20, 30 or 50 over the limit in town. I don't even think that there is a way other than monetary to penalize the driver. They do not get demerit points and therefor cannot lose their license if they are a repeat offender.

want to make a positive change, make it harder to get a license and if you lose it, make it substantially harder to get it back.

Perhaps it is time to employ people to just drive around and watch for infractions that are dangerous to the public. You make a turn without a signal light, or run a red or a stop sign or cut someone off, you get followed for 5-10 minutes. If within that 10 minutes you continue to exhibit these poor driving habits, you go for a test, a very hard test. Fail, no driving for you.

Create a system where people are rewarded for good driving habits, setup cameras around town that send out notices of adhering to the speed limit, using signal lights to turn corners, change lanes, then adjust the insurance rates for those that are being responsible members of the community.

Algorithms with modern cameras can easily be setup to accomplish these things

if people don't want big brother watching over them 24/7, then they need to start to police themselves


Ultimately we're hurtling towards a mostly automated transportation system in the next ten to fifteen years anyway so anything that happens will be more or less of a stopgap measure until then.
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.
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Re: Traffic fines should not go to the city

Postby LivinginKelowna » Dec 15th, 2017, 9:35 am

monroe wrote:
LivinginKelowna wrote:want to make a positive change, make it harder to get a license and if you lose it, make it substantially harder to get it back
.

You had me.

LivinginKelowna wrote:Perhaps it is time to employ people to just drive around and watch for infractions that are dangerous to the public. You make a turn without a signal light, or run a red or a stop sign or cut someone off, you get followed for 5-10 minutes. If within that 10 minutes you continue to exhibit these poor driving habits, you go for a test, a very hard test. Fail, no driving for you.


You lost me.


A system of people ratting each other out will never work. Cost and credibility are two of a few reasons ... not to mention, im sure no one wants to live in that kind of world.


I am getting to the point that I do not see an alternate solution. Far to many people do not care about being responsible members of society any more.

If taking away their licences is the only way to get dangerous people off of the road, and the only way to get that accomplished is to have more patrolling, then I think that is the solution.

Everyday I am cut off by someone who thinks that their destination is more important than my safety, everyday I see an abundance of people still texting, talking, surfing on their cell phones.

People in general now are so much more ME ME ME, that there is no thought of the greater good anymore.

I am more than open to seeing other options, please provide some different solutions for combating the escalation of poor driving that we are seeing now.

I do not want more government intervention in my life, in fact I desire the opposite, but when people are not willing to police themselves, I fail to see options

*EDIT*
And the people doing the following would employees of the government, not regular citizens. Dash cams all the way and then there is no doubting

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Re: Traffic fines should not go to the city

Postby monroe » Dec 15th, 2017, 10:00 am

MrBrocksEgo wrote:Ultimately we're hurtling towards a mostly automated transportation system in the next ten to fifteen years anyway so anything that happens will be more or less of a stopgap measure until then.


I remeber, back in the late 80's, early 90's, the discovery network had a show called Beyond 2000. I think, besides cell phones and the internet, everything they predicted was bunk.

Maybe commercial transport/delivery and similar like taxis with automate - but people love thier cars too much to give up control.

... and even if it did/does happen its certainly not going to happen inside 10-15 yrs.
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Re: Traffic fines should not go to the city

Postby CapitalB » Dec 15th, 2017, 10:15 am

monroe wrote:
MrBrocksEgo wrote:Ultimately we're hurtling towards a mostly automated transportation system in the next ten to fifteen years anyway so anything that happens will be more or less of a stopgap measure until then.


I remeber, back in the late 80's, early 90's, the discovery network had a show called Beyond 2000. I think, besides cell phones and the internet, everything they predicted was bunk.

Maybe commercial transport/delivery and similar like taxis with automate - but people love thier cars too much to give up control.

... and even if it did/does happen its certainly not going to happen inside 10-15 yrs.


Most new semi's already have 'enhanced auto pilot' in them, china has self driving buses speed capped at 25, most auto manufacturers are releasing enhanced auto pilot cars in the next two years, tonnes of companies are working on fully autonomous vehicles. Obviously the whole consumer transportation network won't roll over immediately but personal use will drop off heavily after public transportation goes autonomous.

I mean I love driving and I'm going to own a normal vehicle forever, at some point though it'll become just my road trip pleasure driving camping vehicle. Everyone in the industry expects to have some combination of automated uber, taxi's, buses, and or whatever inside the early twenty twenties and I will be totally happy to just summon a robot car to take me to the grocery store.
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Re: Traffic fines should not go to the city

Postby monroe » Dec 15th, 2017, 10:17 am

LivinginKelowna wrote:I am getting to the point that I do not see an alternate solution. Far to many people do not care about being responsible members of society any more.

If taking away their licences is the only way to get dangerous people off of the road, and the only way to get that accomplished is to have more patrolling, then I think that is the solution.

Everyday I am cut off by someone who thinks that their destination is more important than my safety, everyday I see an abundance of people still texting, talking, surfing on their cell phones.

People in general now are so much more ME ME ME, that there is no thought of the greater good anymore.

I am more than open to seeing other options, please provide some different solutions for combating the escalation of poor driving that we are seeing now.

I do not want more government intervention in my life, in fact I desire the opposite, but when people are not willing to police themselves, I fail to see options

*EDIT*
And the people doing the following would employees of the government, not regular citizens. Dash cams all the way and then there is no doubting


I agree with you in that there is a growing lack of respect on the roads today - but as soon as the govt starts incentivising a system where neighbors are ratting on neighbors, youve got a problem.

I think the closest thing we've got to that is crimestoppers.

Community policing is also alive and well but under utilized.
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Re: Traffic fines should not go to the city

Postby my5cents » Dec 15th, 2017, 10:20 am

monroe wrote:
LivinginKelowna wrote:Perhaps it is time to employ people to just drive around and watch for infractions that are dangerous to the public. You make a turn without a signal light, or run a red or a stop sign or cut someone off, you get followed for 5-10 minutes. If within that 10 minutes you continue to exhibit these poor driving habits, you go for a test, a very hard test. Fail, no driving for you.


You lost me.

A system of people ratting each other out will never work. Cost and credibility are two of a few reasons ... not to mention, im sure no one wants to live in that kind of world.


What ? What are you talking about ? We hire people to monitor traffic right now, they're called police. "Ratting each other"

LivinginKelowna has a good idea just not put together.

You want traffic rule compliance? Get rid of "onesies" (police observing one violation, issue one ticket). We've all seen the motorist that has no regard for traffic laws and or other motorists.

What we do now is review drivers who get multiple tickets. Since these drivers are not monitored, just apprehended at the moment they are observed committing a single violation, it takes time if at all that they have demonstrate that thay need a review.

Target the problem driver. How ? Covert monitoring, plainjane video police vehicles with multi video cameras.
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Re: Traffic fines should not go to the city

Postby fz6adventure » Dec 15th, 2017, 10:34 am

my5cents wrote: Covert monitoring, plainjane video police vehicles with multi video cameras.


Right .....covert dragnet monitoring - everyone is guilty until proven otherwise? Not quite what the Charter of Rights and Freedoms had in mind in sections 7, 8 and 11.
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Re: Traffic fines should not go to the city

Postby my5cents » Dec 15th, 2017, 10:53 am

fz6adventure wrote:Right .....covert dragnet monitoring - everyone is guilty until proven otherwise? Not quite what the Charter of Rights and Freedoms had in mind in sections 7, 8 and 11.


Where did you get guilty til proven inocent ?

Gathereing evidence with the use of video somehow leaps to guilty until proven inocent ?

You're thinking of the current IRP.

All I proposed was to gather evidence of continuing actions instead of stopping the vehicle after one violation.

?
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Re: Traffic fines should not go to the city

Postby fz6adventure » Dec 15th, 2017, 10:56 am

my5cents wrote:
fz6adventure wrote:Right .....covert dragnet monitoring - everyone is guilty until proven otherwise? Not quite what the Charter of Rights and Freedoms had in mind in sections 7, 8 and 11.


Where did you get guilty til proven inocent ?

Gathereing evidence with the use of video somehow leaps to guilty until proven inocent ?

You're thinking of the current IRP.

All I proposed was to gather evidence of continuing actions instead of stopping the vehicle after one violation.

?


Okay ..... how about Section 8 of the Charter, freedom from unreasonable search and seizure.
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Re: Traffic fines should not go to the city

Postby my5cents » Dec 15th, 2017, 11:04 am

fz6adventure wrote:Okay ..... how about Section 8 of the Charter, freedom from unreasonable search and seizure.

I don't know about you but generally I dont do much driving in my bedroom.

We are talking about video on a public street in plain public view, what are you talking about ?

Are you just trying to derail this conversation ?
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Re: Traffic fines should not go to the city

Postby the truth » Dec 15th, 2017, 11:21 am

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#214115 get it done mr basran do something good for this city for a change :smt045

and for you winer's, no this is not a cash grab , if your not speeding you will not get a ticket in the mail ,that simple
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