Flood Review

Re: Flood Review

Postby the truth » Jan 2nd, 2018, 8:13 am

safe bet ,they ,the people in charge of this will f it up just like they did last year
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Re: Flood Review

Postby Urban Cowboy » Jan 2nd, 2018, 10:46 am

LTD wrote:as long as there isn't an incompetent boob at the controls you shouldn't have to worry


Always easy to be an armchair expert, but try to remember the part of the equation where the guy has specific information he looks at to make his decisions, as well as guidelines he must adhere to, particularly where fish are concerned.

He was on target actually up until the point where huge unexpected amounts of snow fell late in the year, and that happened to coincide with a time frame where he wasn't allowed to release water beyond a certain amount due to the fish requirements, so at that point he was in that infamous damned if you do, and damned if you don't position.

I highly doubt anyone else would have been able to do any better under the circumstances, he just happens to be the public face people chose to direct their wrath toward.
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Re: Flood Review

Postby Jflem1983 » Jan 2nd, 2018, 10:47 am

Old Techie wrote:
LTD wrote:as long as there isn't an incompetent boob at the controls you shouldn't have to worry


Always easy to be an armchair expert, but try to remember the part of the equation where the guy has specific information he looks at to make his decisions, as well as guidelines he must adhere to, particularly where fish are concerned.

He was on target actually up until the point where huge unexpected amounts of snow fell late in the year, and that happened to coincide with a time frame where he wasn't allowed to release water beyond a certain amount due to the fish requirements, so at that point he was in that infamous damned if you do, and damned if you don't position.

I highly doubt anyone else would have been able to do any better under the circumstances, he just happens to be the public face people chose to direct their wrath toward.



I bet if we tarred and feathered him .. he would do better :biggrin:
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Re: Flood Review

Postby Urban Cowboy » Jan 2nd, 2018, 10:50 am

^^ I sort of feel sorry for the guy given that all the years he's been doing his job perfectly, nary a thank you to be heard, but enter a year of weird weather, and circumstances beyond his control, and watch out for all the barbs and arrows. :200:
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Re: Flood Review

Postby Jflem1983 » Jan 2nd, 2018, 10:55 am

Old Techie wrote:^^ I sort of feel sorry for the guy given that all the years he's been doing his job perfectly, nary a thank you to be heard, but enter a year of weird weather, and circumstances beyond his control, and watch out for all the barbs and arrows. :200:



I think the actual dam is in Washington state. The local guy only has so much control. Its south of us where they can open it up
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Re: Flood Review

Postby Glacier » Jan 2nd, 2018, 11:22 am

Jflem1983 wrote:
Old Techie wrote:^^ I sort of feel sorry for the guy given that all the years he's been doing his job perfectly, nary a thank you to be heard, but enter a year of weird weather, and circumstances beyond his control, and watch out for all the barbs and arrows. :200:



I think the actual dam is in Washington state. The local guy only has so much control. Its south of us where they can open it up

Nothing could be further from the truth. The Americans have the Similkameen river flowing in at the border, which is much larger than the Okanagan, so they don't care one rip rip about the Okanagan flows in BC.

The reason Okanagan Lake is dammed is because there was a major drought in 1929, which left many farmers high and dry in the south Okanagan. The purpose of the dams in the Okanagan are not to prevent flooding, but to make sure there is enough water in the system if a major drought hits.

There is NOTHING the operator did wrong nor is there anything he could have done to prevent the flooding. Snowpack levels where below normal all winter long, and it was only the May 1st snowpack that was well above normal, and that was only a few days before the major flooding hit. If the operator had a crystal ball (which he doesn't) and he were able to see the rains that were about the strike, he could have opened up the flood gates somewhat, but not that much --- because fish, but the flooding would have still happened just as it did.

Mother Nature fooled us humans.
Last edited by Glacier on Jan 2nd, 2018, 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Flood Review

Postby LTD » Jan 2nd, 2018, 11:32 am

Old Techie wrote:
LTD wrote:as long as there isn't an incompetent boob at the controls you shouldn't have to worry


Always easy to be an armchair expert, but try to remember the part of the equation where the guy has specific information he looks at to make his decisions, as well as guidelines he must adhere to, particularly where fish are concerned.

He was on target actually up until the point where huge unexpected amounts of snow fell late in the year, and that happened to coincide with a time frame where he wasn't allowed to release water beyond a certain amount due to the fish requirements, so at that point he was in that infamous damned if you do, and damned if you don't position.

I highly doubt anyone else would have been able to do any better under the circumstances, he just happens to be the public face people chose to direct their wrath toward.

leaving the lake close to full pool is not 'on target' mill creek will always back up when the outlet is the same as the lake level and pulling the plug on a full bathtub while filling it with a firehose will never get the result youre looking for, hopefully a lesson was learned about monitoring snow pack

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Re: Flood Review

Postby LTD » Jan 2nd, 2018, 11:36 am

I think the actual dam is in Washington state. The local guy only has so much control. Its south of us where they can open it up[/quote]
Nothing could be further from the truth. The Americans have the Similkameen river flowing in at the border, which is much larger than the Okanagan, so they don't care one rip rip about the Okanagan flows in BC.

The reason Okanagan Lake is dammed is because there was a major drought in 1929, which left many farmers high and dry in the south Okanagan. The purpose of the dams in the Okanagan are not to prevent flooding, but to make sure there is enough water in the system if a major drought hits.

There is NOTHING the operator did wrong nor is there anything he could have done to prevent the flooding. Snowpack levels where below normal all winter long, and it was only the May 1st snowpack that was well above normal, and that was only a few days before the major flooding hit. If the operator had a crystal ball (which he doesn't) and he were able to see the rains that were about the strike, he could have opened up the flood gates somewhat, but not that much --- because fish, the flooding would have still happened just as it did.

Mother Nature fooled us humans.[/quote]

ah yes so what youre saying is five feet of snow just fell overnight on may 1, got it nothing could be done

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Re: Flood Review

Postby dirtybiker » Jan 2nd, 2018, 11:57 am

I'll heavily lean towards Glaciers take, for good reason.

Remember the non-stop snowfall, leading straight into torrential rain
falls, then how hot it got right off the bat.

The Okanagan Water Management did zero wrong.

Forces of nature thumbed her nose at science.
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Re: Flood Review

Postby Fancy » Jan 2nd, 2018, 12:00 pm

LTD wrote:ah yes so what youre saying is five feet of snow just fell overnight on may 1, got it nothing could be done

April 1st indicated a below average snow pack - May 2nd showed an above average snow pack with concerns about flooding if there was a sudden warming with an already saturated soil.
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Re: Flood Review

Postby Glacier » Jan 2nd, 2018, 12:02 pm

LTD wrote:ah yes so what youre saying is five feet of snow just fell overnight on may 1, got it nothing could be done

No, the snowpack assessments are actually quite complex, and thus they're only done every month (and twice per month in May and June). They took measurements on May 1st, and the numbers were crunched and released on May 8th. Lumby was already flooding a day earlier in May 7th, and Kelowna was soon to follow.

Nonstop RECORD SHATTERING snowfall and rainfall (at lower elevations) plus a heatwave = flooding.
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Re: Flood Review

Postby Fancy » Jan 2nd, 2018, 12:05 pm

http://www.obwb.ca/update-5-may-2017/
One site I was looking at during the flooding period.
This is another:
https://wateroffice.ec.gc.ca/search/rea ... nage_area=
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Re: Flood Review

Postby cv23 » Jan 2nd, 2018, 12:13 pm

Glacier wrote:No, the snowpack assessments are actually quite complex, and thus they're only done every month (and twice per month in May and June). They took measurements on May 1st, and the numbers were crunched and released on May 8th. Lumby was already flooding a day earlier in May 7th, and Kelowna was soon to follow.


Clearly doing the snowpack assessment once a month, or even twice a month during the spring, was/is no where near often enough especially since anyone can go to the Big White website and get rough idea of snowpack information for that area 24/7.
http://www.bigwhite.com/geo/kel

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Re: Flood Review

Postby cv23 » Jan 2nd, 2018, 12:15 pm

Glacier wrote:
Nonstop RECORD SHATTERING snowfall and rainfall (at lower elevations) plus a heatwave = flooding.


Especially when conditions by those in control of the lakes gates are only checked every two weeks to a month and a few spawning fish are given more consideration than hundreds of thousands of residents and billions of dollars of property.
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Re: Flood Review

Postby LTD » Jan 2nd, 2018, 12:18 pm

dirtybiker wrote:I'll heavily lean towards Glaciers take, for good reason.

Remember the non-stop snowfall, leading straight into torrential rain
falls, then how hot it got right off the bat.

The Okanagan Water Management did zero wrong.

Forces of nature thumbed her nose at science.

you think it all just fell at once ? there was lots of warning here if you spend any time in the mountains, the lake was also almost full still. I helped a friend shovel sand into barrels on his dock before any of it even started to flood, he saw it coming 40 plus years here and he said hes never seen the lake that high at that time of year go figure. maybe you guys all work for the water management board I dunno but I do know some major mistakes where made that cost the taxpayer a lot of dough to blame it all on mother nature is wrong they got caught with their pants down and we pay for it

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