Target is functional zero

Re: Target is functional zero

Postby techrtr » Jan 24th, 2018, 9:51 am

Mtn Biker wrote:
dirtybiker wrote:Yet again, another colossal waste of monies that would have been spent just as well
pouring booze down the gullets of street people and pizzed up against a wall.

At least more people would have had a share of the coin.
Now, one solitary person takes it back from whence she came by saying
what everyone already knew.

Nice scam !


The lack of empathy in many of the comments on this subject is disturbing and is a bigger part of the problem than most narrow minded folks could ever admit to. What that means is, they are part of the problem. Quit being part of the problem.


I don't think it so much a lack of empathy as it is people just getting sick and tired of people screwing up their lives and then the rest of us having to take care of them.

I hate my job and my life but I get up every day, drag myself off to work, spend every cent I earn on taxes and to support my family even though they hate me. The last thing I want to do is work to support a bunch of people who made the decision to abuse drugs and are now living on the street, esp. when they throw their disease infected syringes all over the place. You think you had to worry about that during the 80's? Not in Kelowna, so what happened?

I do have sympathy for people who are mentally ill however, and were kicked out of treatment programs by previous governments.

Improve treatment programs, get tough on drug crimes, and stop making it so comfortable for people to live on the streets e.g. allowing them to set up tent cities in public parks. That's ridiculous. We don't hold people accountable for what they do anymore and we make it easier for them to continue their behaviours. Why not live in a tent in city park and abuse drugs all day? You can get three hot meals a day, drugs are readily available, and if you get busted for stealing people's stuff, nothing will happen to you. You can panhandle and never pay a penny in taxes and there are plenty of rubes out there handing it out because it makes them feel like they're a good human being for helping someone who's less fortunate.

I wonder how many of those guys standing on the boulevards actually have a nice little apartment somewhere and have discovered that it's way easier and more profitable to panhandle for a few hours a day than working at Tim Horton's and paying taxes like the rest of us.

The only people I really care about are kids who live in extreme poverty or who have deadbeat parents who don't take care of them. Everyone else can just bugger off - they had their chance and they messed up. Not my problem.

Catsumi likes this post.
techrtr
Übergod
 
Posts: 1012
Likes: 81 posts
Liked in: 975 posts
Joined: Jul 5th, 2005, 7:47 am

Re: Target is functional zero

Postby Mtn Biker » Jan 24th, 2018, 10:21 am

techrtr wrote:I don't think it so much a lack of empathy as it is people just getting sick and tired of people screwing up their lives and then the rest of us having to take care of them.

I hate my job and my life but I get up every day, drag myself off to work, spend every cent I earn on taxes and to support my family even though they hate me. The last thing I want to do is work to support a bunch of people who made the decision to abuse drugs and are now living on the street, esp. when they throw their disease infected syringes all over the place. You think you had to worry about that during the 80's? Not in Kelowna, so what happened?

I do have sympathy for people who are mentally ill however, and were kicked out of treatment programs by previous governments.

Improve treatment programs, get tough on drug crimes, and stop making it so comfortable for people to live on the streets e.g. allowing them to set up tent cities in public parks. That's ridiculous. We don't hold people accountable for what they do anymore and we make it easier for them to continue their behaviours. Why not live in a tent in city park and abuse drugs all day? You can get three hot meals a day, drugs are readily available, and if you get busted for stealing people's stuff, nothing will happen to you. You can panhandle and never pay a penny in taxes and there are plenty of rubes out there handing it out because it makes them feel like they're a good human being for helping someone who's less fortunate.

I wonder how many of those guys standing on the boulevards actually have a nice little apartment somewhere and have discovered that it's way easier and more profitable to panhandle for a few hours a day than working at Tim Horton's and paying taxes like the rest of us.

The only people I really care about are kids who live in extreme poverty or who have deadbeat parents who don't take care of them. Everyone else can just bugger off - they had their chance and they messed up. Not my problem.


Thanks you just reinforced my position. Each and every point in this comment points to exactly what I said. A lack of empathy and understanding about the reality of the situation. I suggest instead of "wondering" why someone is where they are, maybe ask them sometime. I have, and I was surprised and you will be as well by the answers you will get. It is true some are there by their own choice. Because a life on the street is in fact, safer for some than a life at home. How pathetic is that. Again, I suggest you volunteer at a drop in center, or spend some time speaking with homeless people; the reasons and circumstances of why, cover a wide range of social issues and reasoning. But heck, let's kick them when they're down, it's the neighborly thing to do. Not.
Mtn Biker
Generalissimo Postalot
 
Posts: 894
Likes: 16 posts
Liked in: 329 posts
Joined: Apr 11th, 2008, 1:22 pm

Re: Target is functional zero

Postby techrtr » Jan 24th, 2018, 11:02 am

So, does the Nigerian fraudster trying to rip me off so he can support his family deserve my sympathy too?

I know a lot about the human condition and yes, I have talked to street people.

There have always been losers and there always will be. I'm sure that 4000 years ago there were losers in First Nations villages - people who were lazy, preferred to steal rather than work to gather their own food supply, couldn't take care of their family. They were eventually banished and forced to live on the fringes until finally they perished.

We hand out OD kits like they're juice boxes. Some people are being revived multiple times a week. Do these people ever get off drugs or do they eventually die in spite of our best efforts? Can you legally force them into treatment programs and detain them until they're done?

Maybe that's what we need to do. Stop mollycoddling people and get tough with them.

Catsumi likes this post.
techrtr
Übergod
 
Posts: 1012
Likes: 81 posts
Liked in: 975 posts
Joined: Jul 5th, 2005, 7:47 am

Re: Target is functional zero

Postby dirtybiker » Jan 24th, 2018, 11:04 am

Love that; mtn bkr.
once again print gets taken out of context.
Nowhere (in this thread) have I slammed the street people.

I was, in fact, slamming the scam artist that bilked our council out of a great deal
of money, just to basically say, in highly educated banter and professional
presentation. "Yup, you got a toughie there, you'll never fully fix the issue."

Any person with an average IQ and a grade 10 education could have said that.
Just not as eloquently as she did.

Little clearer now ?

The waste of funds to this overeducated leech could have been better served paid to the actual
programs for the people on the ground.
"Don't 'p' down my neck then tell me it's raining!"

Catsumi likes this post.
dirtybiker
Guru
 
Posts: 6372
Likes: 5462 posts
Liked in: 2791 posts
Joined: Mar 8th, 2008, 7:00 pm
Location: Central OK

Re: Target is functional zero

Postby CapitalB » Jan 24th, 2018, 11:13 am

techrtr wrote:So, does the Nigerian fraudster trying to rip me off so he can support his family deserve my sympathy too?

I know a lot about the human condition and yes, I have talked to street people.

There have always been losers and there always will be. I'm sure that 4000 years ago there were losers in First Nations villages - people who were lazy, preferred to steal rather than work to gather their own food supply, couldn't take care of their family. They were eventually banished and forced to live on the fringes until finally they perished.

We hand out OD kits like they're juice boxes. Some people are being revived multiple times a week. Do these people ever get off drugs or do they eventually die in spite of our best efforts? Can you legally force them into treatment programs and detain them until they're done?

Maybe that's what we need to do. Stop mollycoddling people and get tough with them.


See the trouble is its literally impossible to filter the people that actually legitimately need help out of the group of eligible people. Either you help everyone that needs it and accept that your helping scum sometimes or you help no one and accept that your basically allowing legitimately needful people to die because they are in the same income demographic as the scum.

Any system put in place to differentiate these people can and will be subverted by the scum. If you really wanted to do it you would have to closely monitor every aspect of each persons life for a sizable amount of time, that would be so complicated and so expensive that it doesn't even make sense as an option.

So which choice is easier to live with, sink the poor to punish the scum or help the scum to save the poor?
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.

2 people like this post.
User avatar
CapitalB
Generalissimo Postalot
 
Posts: 801
Likes: 365 posts
Liked in: 505 posts
Joined: Nov 14th, 2017, 12:27 pm

Re: Target is functional zero

Postby techrtr » Jan 24th, 2018, 11:48 am

I don't think it's that complicated. People are living on the street because A. they're mentally ill B. they're addicts and can't take of themselves C. they want to be there.

I don't think that there are many people who are so destitute that they can't put a roof over their heads. There are jobs (or scams) out there and there is affordable housing. There is also welfare if you have a permanent address.

Get treatment for mentally ill people. Put drug addicts into rehab and dealers in jail. When someone completes rehab, give them a place to live in a transition house until they're ready to get a job and live on their own. Or, give addicts all the drugs they want, but don't help them if they OD. Build affordable housing for the working poor. There's nothing much that you can do with people who want to live on the streets.

Catsumi likes this post.
techrtr
Übergod
 
Posts: 1012
Likes: 81 posts
Liked in: 975 posts
Joined: Jul 5th, 2005, 7:47 am

Re: Target is functional zero

Postby CapitalB » Jan 24th, 2018, 12:07 pm

techrtr wrote:I don't think it's that complicated. People are living on the street because A. they're mentally ill B. they're addicts and can't take of themselves C. they want to be there.

I don't think that there are many people who are so destitute that they can't put a roof over their heads. There are jobs (or scams) out there and there is affordable housing. There is also welfare if you have a permanent address.

Get treatment for mentally ill people. Put drug addicts into rehab and dealers in jail. When someone completes rehab, give them a place to live in a transition house until they're ready to get a job and live on their own. Or, give addicts all the drugs they want, but don't help them if they OD. Build affordable housing for the working poor. There's nothing much that you can do with people who want to live on the streets.


Your drastically over simplifying people into those three categories, people never fit into neat little boxes. You also have this crazy idea that some people want to be there. Nobody is deliberately homeless, nobody gets there on purpose, no child is growing up dreaming of becoming a homeless meth addicted *bleep*.

See most homeless people are combinations of mentally ill, psychologically broken, physically disabled, or guilty of making poor choices in their youth. Even when they do want out its not as easy to get out as you seem to think.

The rest of what you said regarding a better way to deal with these problems is pretty good though, I generally agree that would be a better system. It doesn't seem to discriminate against the types of people seeking help, just provides options for them to seek help. Awesome.
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.
User avatar
CapitalB
Generalissimo Postalot
 
Posts: 801
Likes: 365 posts
Liked in: 505 posts
Joined: Nov 14th, 2017, 12:27 pm

Previous

Return to Central Okanagan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot], comScore [Crawler] and 5 guests