Downtown cameras

Re: Downtown cameras

Postby Jflem1983 » Feb 8th, 2018, 9:42 am

Rider59 wrote:
Jflem1983 wrote:Wow our council is really pushing the limits.

300 000 dollars to spy on regular people going about the day .

All to prop up the delicate egos on council . This council are working against the people of Kelowna.

Not one crime has ever been prevented by a camera. In fact from my point of view. At least half the time when there is camera footage of a crime. It is always not admissible in court or too blurry to make out who it is. Or the guy is wearing a hat etc. ..

Basically. Evety single person who ever goes downtown will be put under surveillance now . For no reason at all .

Thankfully our new provincial government who i greatly dislike has come out in support of the citizens and against the cameras. Im sure council will fight tooth and nail to keep their little project a go. Delicate egos to protect after all .

I can only hope things improve after Ron Mattasui retires in March. That guy can go ruin some other town



Would you be OK with them spending he money on real police officers with actual eyes on the streets to 'spy on the regular people going about the day'?


Yes i feel that is a more pragmatic solution if u actually want to make downtown feel safer. Boots on the ground
Now they want to take our guns away . That would be just fine. Take em away from the criminals first . Ill gladly give u mine. "Charlie Daniels"

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Re: Downtown cameras

Postby CapitalB » Feb 8th, 2018, 9:44 am

They should spend that money on another project that would use cameras. Smart lights at intersections that detect gaps in traffic and switch lights. That would be useful and wouldn't help them fine people though, cause thats all our city wants, just to nickle and dime us with pay parking and fines.
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.

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Re: Downtown cameras

Postby alanjh595 » Feb 8th, 2018, 9:52 am

During a pilot project in the summer, building services manager Martin Johansen said live monitoring had a "significant impact" on the city's three parkades.

During budget deliberations in December, council approved $30,000 for the monitoring of about 300 city cameras.


It's $30,000 not $300,000. How many police officers can you put on the ground for $30K? Considering that is for 300 cameras, that could be monitored by 1-2 people during peak periods. Didn't Vernon just spend $1.1M for just 2 police officers?
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Re: Downtown cameras

Postby trapp » Feb 8th, 2018, 9:55 am

There are so many cameras in today's world. Almost every large store in town have cameras monitoring customers. Everyone probably is recorded on camera more than 50 times on a routine shopping trip. Just glance up at the ceiling and see for yourself. Entry and exit cameras to businesses are everywhere. Your chances of being in someones cell phone video downtown or at one of the shopping malls is greater than being caught on a City of Kelowna camera. Almost every major intersection has a camera also.

It is the criminal or law and regulation offender element that fuels the need for surveillance.

Like others have indicated if you are not breaking any laws, regulations or bylaws there is nothing to fear, my opinion also.
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Re: Downtown cameras

Postby alanjh595 » Feb 8th, 2018, 10:01 am

AND all of the government cameras will not be able to be used/viewed on the internet. The cel phone/private recordings can be sent to the internet immediately and redistributed to infinite numbers of computers worldwide.
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Re: Downtown cameras

Postby Jonrox » Feb 8th, 2018, 10:15 am

Jflem1983 wrote:It appears the crime is the camera itself actually . This is not the first time Kelowna has been in trouble for this either. Council is all to willing to build a mini auschwitz

A comment like this really downplays and trivializes what actually happened at Auschwitz don't you think?
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Re: Downtown cameras

Postby Jflem1983 » Feb 8th, 2018, 10:16 am

Jonrox wrote:
Jflem1983 wrote:It appears the crime is the camera itself actually . This is not the first time Kelowna has been in trouble for this either. Council is all to willing to build a mini auschwitz

A comment like this really downplays and trivializes what actually happened at Auschwitz don't you think?




Yes it was a poor choice of words for sure
Now they want to take our guns away . That would be just fine. Take em away from the criminals first . Ill gladly give u mine. "Charlie Daniels"

You have got to stand for something . Or you will fall for anything "Aaron Tippin"

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Re: Downtown cameras

Postby fz6adventure » Feb 8th, 2018, 10:52 am

Here is an idea for all the folks and city officials that approve of constant video surveillance of Joe Public. For every camera that is monitoring a public area, a sister camera is put into city offices and boardrooms and streamed over the internet so the public can see what the local government is doing ....starting with the mayor and working on down. This should not be a problem given the rational that if you are not doing anything wrong you shouldn't mind.

Another solution is for every citizen that doesn't approve of being under surveillance to submit a freedom of information request for all images or video footage of that individual. This information must be provided to the applicant at no charge under section 75(3) of FIPPA. Maybe once it gets cost prohibitive to actually follow the law the city might re-think what they are doing under financial pressure. The legacy of our City Manager will become very apparent .... as he rides off into the sunset.
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Re: Downtown cameras

Postby just popping in » Feb 8th, 2018, 11:03 am

As mentioned by Spartan463 in December, a person who actually did monitor the cameras during the trial period. They are watching for suspicious/illegal behaviour; they don't watch you personally to see if you brushed your teeth or combed your hair. Get over yourselves.

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Re: Downtown cameras

Postby fz6adventure » Feb 8th, 2018, 1:35 pm

just popping in wrote:As mentioned by Spartan463 in December, a person who actually did monitor the cameras during the trial period. They are watching for suspicious/illegal behaviour; they don't watch you personally to see if you brushed your teeth or combed your hair. Get over yourselves.


What is "suspicious/illegal" and what qualifications does whoever is doing the monitoring (who happens to be an outside contractor!) have to make such assessment? We have this little thing here in Canada and most the democratic societies to be presumed innocent until "proven" guilty beyond reasonable doubt. They have a further little thing in Canada that requires police to be trained - not so convinced the guy making $15/hr watching videos is the sort we want making these assessments.

I counted 4 cameras in a 2 block section of Bernard Avenue this morning - I took photos of them while they were recording me. We will soon find out if they have facial recognition technology and data tracking ability - another FOI forthcoming!

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Re: Downtown cameras

Postby fz6adventure » Feb 8th, 2018, 1:44 pm

The full text of the OIPC News Release is found here:

https://www.oipc.bc.ca/public-comments/2128

If you are concerned about about video surveillance, don't be afraid to write to the OIPC ....... I did!

Dear Mr. McArthur;

As a strong proponent Human Rights and of our Charter Rights, it was with great pleasure to read your statement dated February 7, 2018 regarding investigating the use of video surveillance by local governments. In your statement you state that if there is concern about the use of video surveillance in one’s community, to contact the OIPC. Hence, this communication.

I live in Kelowna and have been attempting to gain more information on the video surveillance practices in the City for some time, but have continually come up against concerted efforts by the local government to not release information – despite the fact this is crucial public information! It is to the point where I have made formal requests under the Freedom of Information process. In one particular case, the City has applied to your office to disregard an information request (Your File No. F18-XXXXX). Other requests, including the most recent City of Kelowna surveillance audit report are pending.

In your statement, you advised that the City of Kelowna plans to hire employees to monitor cameras on a full time basis. My information is that it is not employees that the City plans to hire but rather, the use of an outside contractor. This is particularly troubling given the City is not forthcoming about who this third party is and, notwithstanding the legality question in the first place, what safeguards are in place to prevent unscrupulous use or distribution of any footage captured.

You are absolutely right in your assessment that if we surrender our public spaces to surveillance – where we all have the right to be - we may never get them back. It is unfortunate that this matter was not pursued back in the early 2000’s when Commissioner Radwanski launched his Charter Application, which was subsequently dismissed by the Supreme Court on the basis Mr. Radwanski was without standing - but, better late than never. If an individual with standing is required to launch another Charter Challenge, you can count me in!

I’ll close by thanking you for taking the courage to stand up for the betterment of society and stemming the erosion of our most basic Human Rights and Charter Rights by government. I will look forward to your further statements on this matter.


Even if one is on the fence about whether r not the City should be monitoring our every move, one should be concerned about the millions of tax dollars being spent on this exercise.

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Re: Downtown cameras

Postby gsc » Feb 8th, 2018, 3:02 pm

Just my two cents but I could really care less if they put more cameras up or not. Yes I can think of way better ways to spend thousands of dollars around our community but it's not up to me. If they really think it's gonna help the crime then so be it.

Sadly the way crime works is now the criminals will just be more careful and ware masks or the crime will just move to another part of the city. The cams won't stop crime it will just move to a spot with less or no cams.

If they wanna fix the crime start with the court system and the jails. Stop giving a slap on the wrist and sending the criminals back out on the streets to continue what they where doing.

We have security cams on our home and we find personally they are very nice to have. Just a couple nights ago I woke up to grab a drink and for some strange gut reason looked at the cams. I saw some guy trying the door handle on my truck and a friend's truck. But as stated before crime won't magically go it will move or just make smarter criminals. Security cams can also be blocked or blinded out with very simple tools and next to no cost. Maybe we should be looking at more police and not cameras with the amount of people saying how under staffed the RCMP are.
Last edited by gsc on Feb 8th, 2018, 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Downtown cameras

Postby just popping in » Feb 8th, 2018, 3:11 pm

fz6adventure wrote: I counted 4 cameras in a 2 block section of Bernard Avenue this morning - I took photos of them while they were recording me. We will soon find out if they have facial recognition technology and data tracking ability - another FOI forthcoming!


And in that 2 block section did you enter any stores and take photos of their surveillance cameras too?
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Re: Downtown cameras

Postby fz6adventure » Feb 8th, 2018, 3:13 pm

just popping in wrote:And in that 2 block section did you enter any stores and take photos of their surveillance cameras too?


Nope, but I can choose not to go in a store - I can't choose not to walk along a public sidewalk unless I never leave my home.

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Re: Downtown cameras

Postby GordonH » Feb 8th, 2018, 3:18 pm

Since most everyone has video camera in their pockets with couple taps. Your actions out in public may come back to bite you, so smile and wave.
When you have to start compromising yourself and your morals for the people around you, it’s probably time to change the people around you.

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