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The Westcorp hotel....

Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby dle » Feb 9th, 2018, 9:08 am

goalie wrote:
An original height variance to 87 metres was supported by council in 2014, however, that development permit has now expired.



The council was willing to work with them but they are playing dirty. Double the height? I hope the city deals with the accordingly.


They will politely hum and haw with the developer and then cave - SOP for this council and planning department.

My prediction? It will end up being approved somewhere in the middle and council will pat themselves on the back for a kick-ass negotiation success all for the good of us, the citizens of our fair city. It's just like :dash: with them.

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby lindenhof72 » Feb 9th, 2018, 9:57 am

Grandan wrote:
lindenhof72 wrote:This is the blandness building you could put in such an iconic area. It's just a big beige cylinder that needs some grey at the stop to make it look like an old stubby cigar. If the developers were really serious about this project, why couldn't they make something just as beautiful and iconic as the area it's going in? A building that looks like the sails perhaps? Why do most people in Kelowna seem satisfied with second best when we're an international destination with a thriving airport flying people here?

Or maybe Kelowna wants to be just as bland as the buildings put up here.

LOL, I can just imagine what an elevator encapsulated inside a wing of the hotel shaped like the sails would operate like.
The cantilever loads would be massive on such a structure.
Ever wonder why Westcorp is not utilizing local talent? Wonder no more. With goofy ideas like that it is better to stick with firms that have actually designed a hotel before.
I read the Westcorp hype and believe that they are responding to market trends by offering buyer owned units. By doing so it ties residents of Kelowna to the long term vision of the hotel. I really like it. The city planners have no choice but to pan the development because it is beyond their pay grade.
Having recently presented a proposal to one city official, I was met with an closed mind, a person that was more interested in telling me why my proposal was no good without taking the time to even explain the proposal or put a drawing in front of them before they shot down the whole idea.
Kelowna is asking for" Imagine Kelowna" ideas but then put dopes like the character I had to talk to on the front lines to discourage anyone that did not fit into their narrow view of the world. I think the term is "gate keepers".
As it stands now, the concrete canyon that Ellis Street has turned into now is pretty pathetic and if we keep the clowns in the planning dept calling the shots we will have more of the same for a great long time.


*removed* Look up The Burj Al Arab or to make it easier for you, here's a nice link you go to.

https://experiencejumeirah.com/2017/10/ ... j-al-arab/

Now I'm not saying we build something like this, it's way too costly and massive, but at least let the design of the Westcorp hotel be a little more modern and upscale. We aren't a hick town right?
Last edited by ferri on Feb 9th, 2018, 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Making it personal

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby goalie » Feb 9th, 2018, 11:02 am

LANDM wrote:Playing dirty?

Property owners ask for variances all the time. It is an acceptable solution where someone has a proposal that is outside of the written regulations. Is a homeowner who has his eaves intruding into the zoning setback allowance "playing dirty" when they ask for a variance? Or would you suggest that the city deals with it by telling them to tear the house down?


The number of people that impacts is insignificant compared to how many people living downtown will be impacted by a monster twice the height originally approved.... These dirtbags already got 10.5 meters (35 feet) increase approved. Might as well triple the original height.

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby dirtybiker » Feb 9th, 2018, 11:26 am

Queen K wrote:
Not sticking to any plans whatsoever as presented and approved.

That is what is galling in each case.


Yup!
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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby Grandan » Feb 9th, 2018, 11:32 am

lindenhof72 wrote:This is the blandness building you could put in such an iconic area. It's just a big beige cylinder that needs some grey at the stop to make it look like an old stubby cigar. If the developers were really serious about this project, why couldn't they make something just as beautiful and iconic as the area it's going in? A building that looks like the sails perhaps? Why do most people in Kelowna seem satisfied with second best when we're an international destination with a thriving airport flying people here?

Or maybe Kelowna wants to be just as bland as the buildings put up here.

Grandan wrote:[
LOL, I can just imagine what an elevator encapsulated inside a wing of the hotel shaped like the sails would operate like.
The cantilever loads would be massive on such a structure.
Ever wonder why Westcorp is not utilizing local talent? Wonder no more. With goofy ideas like that it is better to stick with firms that have actually designed a hotel before.
I read the Westcorp hype and believe that they are responding to market trends by offering buyer owned units. By doing so it ties residents of Kelowna to the long term vision of the hotel. I really like it. The city planners have no choice but to pan the development because it is beyond their pay grade.
Having recently presented a proposal to one city official, I was met with an closed mind, a person that was more interested in telling me why my proposal was no good without taking the time to even explain the proposal or put a drawing in front of them before they shot down the whole idea.
Kelowna is asking for" Imagine Kelowna" ideas but then put dopes like the character I had to talk to on the front lines to discourage anyone that did not fit into their narrow view of the world. I think the term is "gate keepers".
As it stands now, the concrete canyon that Ellis Street has turned into now is pretty pathetic and if we keep the clowns in the planning dept calling the shots we will have more of the same for a great long time.

quote="lindenhof72"]*removed* Look up The Burj Al Arab or to make it easier for you, here's a nice link you go to.

https://experiencejumeirah.com/2017/10/ ... j-al-arab/
quote="lindenhof72"]
Now I'm not saying we build something like this, it's way too costly and massive, but at least let the design of the Westcorp hotel be a little more modern and upscale. We aren't a hick town right?[/quote]


No,not right. Hick town central wanabe big city. Wanting to be big but not accepting of the consequences. Not putting the people on the front lines that have the insight. Time for some early retirements.
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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby dirtybiker » Feb 9th, 2018, 11:44 am

LANDM wrote:
Property owners ask for variances all the time. It is an acceptable solution where someone has a proposal that is outside of the written regulations. Is a homeowner who has his eaves intruding into the zoning setback allowance "playing dirty" when they ask for a variance? Or would you suggest that the city deals with it by telling them to tear the house down?


Difference being, as per your example.
One is a presently standing structure, which I assume had an upgrade done.

The other still has no hole in the ground, nothing to tear down.

Maybe Westcorp should do the normal thing, just start building and when it is
discovered that there is all of a sudden 42 stories, they can just ask for
forgiveness, a variance, and go about their business.

Not like they would be asked to tear it down.
"Don't 'p' down my neck then tell me it's raining!"

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby Queen K » Feb 9th, 2018, 11:48 am

Oh ya, exactly, "Ooooppppsy, we had no idea how tall it was getting." :hailjo:
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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby dle » Feb 9th, 2018, 12:43 pm

Grandan said:

No,not right. Hick town central wanabe big city. Wanting to be big but not accepting of the consequences. Not putting the people on the front lines that have the insight. Time for some early retirements.


So, when I moved here many moons ago, this place was smaller, was sooooo cool, very "Malibu" attitude, fun, colourful, lots of convertibles, smelled like Coppertone, unique shopping, water fun, sailboats, a summer paradise. 'Kelowna" was where summer lived. "Kelowna" had a very cool ski hill. Everyone knew about Ogopogo and the land of the sun. Everyone who was a summer baby came to Kelowna and it was the coolest. The word "hick" was never used, as far as I know, to ever describe Kelowna then. If it is now, then we have to ask ourselves why? The changes that have happened too fast maybe? Left us in a void of no infrastructure to support the people who were drawn here by developers who realized what we had and now are out to destroy the very thing that drew them here - the natural beauty of our lakeside. Turn us into any ol' city on any ol' map? Sad state of affairs we have on our hands.

Sure, the influx of people have changed things - but we have to remember WHY they came here in the first place, and we need to nurture THAT image, not make it unrecognizable.

Wannabe big city, now, I can agree with that description. The "wannabe's" however, aren't the citizens, at least not all of them, or even most of them I would wager. The "wannabe's" are the people in City council and City planners who have taken their own agenda to turn this sparkling gem of a city into a Mincouver and completely erase what Kelowna ever was.

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby dirtybiker » Feb 9th, 2018, 12:57 pm

^^^ :clapping: ^^^

Nice heart-felt post..I agree...
"Don't 'p' down my neck then tell me it's raining!"

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby wanderer » Feb 9th, 2018, 3:16 pm

dle wrote:...
The "wannabe's" are the people in City council and City planners who have taken their own agenda to turn this sparkling gem of a city into a Mincouver and completely erase what Kelowna ever was.


More a MiniEdmonton with so many many managers, mid managers, recruited from Edmonton.

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby PDT » Feb 9th, 2018, 3:51 pm

wanderer wrote:More a MiniEdmonton with so many many managers, mid managers, recruited from Edmonton.

I completely agree. Starting right at the head of Kelowna City Hall, Ron Mattiussi was hired away from Edmonton's planning commission, and was put in charge in the planning department in 1995 and was then promoted to be completely in charge of the City in 2006. He is going to retire at the end of next month. Given his positions here for the last 23 years, in some ways, I kind of blame him for the lack of decent planning for our city.

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby 60-YEARS-in-Ktown » Feb 9th, 2018, 10:22 pm

I got to say , our introduction to Milroy was when a plan was presented to us, that was well underway.. before we knew anything about it.
Curiously he was from Edmonton, as was a major city employee..
.
This is where the whole thing got into the public eye. .
And for the record, a certain GT, that works for Westcorp, got up and spoke at the Cedar creek beach debate..
And they stated publicly ," I for one would love to have a place to drink a coffee with my friends and look out at the lake.."
This they thought that should occur on Abbot Street, a commercial element on the lake on a parcel that should be park..

And now and for a period if time they had their chance to build, but they don't, they just keep asking for a bigger and bigger building.. and more and more..
I'd like to help You OUT,
Which way did You come in??

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby marooned » Feb 9th, 2018, 11:41 pm

Westcorp has been playing this for a decade (CD21), and I'd imagine they will try to outlast any objection to variances.

I just hope builders remember what the city was built upon, and have a mitigation plan when the listing starts. That site will take years to preload even at current height.

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby Queen K » Feb 9th, 2018, 11:46 pm

60-YEARS-in-Ktown wrote:I got to say , our introduction to Milroy was when a plan was presented to us, that was well underway.. before we knew anything about it.
Curiously he was from Edmonton, as was a major city employee..
.
This is where the whole thing got into the public eye. .
And for the record, a certain GT, that works for Westcorp, got up and spoke at the Cedar creek beach debate..
And they stated publicly ," I for one would love to have a place to drink a coffee with my friends and look out at the lake.."
This they thought that should occur on Abbot Street, a commercial element on the lake on a parcel that should be park..

And now and for a period if time they had their chance to build, but they don't, they just keep asking for a bigger and bigger building.. and more and more..


Which exactly what was happening with the project in Summerland, more and more being demanded of the site. Hopefully their council will hold strong to their convictions. Unlike ours.
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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby artistwithaflare » Feb 10th, 2018, 7:28 am

We used to see the ocean and now all we see is concrete!
Kelowna will be no different. :200:

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