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The Westcorp hotel....

Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby zerograv » Feb 8th, 2018, 12:44 pm

*removed*
Last edited by ferri on Feb 8th, 2018, 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby zerograv » Feb 8th, 2018, 12:49 pm

dle wrote:IMHO a resounding YES there are legitimate concerns. These tall buildings leave everything surrounding it in shade. They block the lake views of the pedestrians walking. They block the lake views of the traffic in the area. Walk around Vancouver on a sunny day - in some places you would never know the sun was shining unless you look up. The tall buildings should be kept down by the Grand. If they want to shroud an area in shade, fine, do it where it has already started. We should have unrestricted walking, picnicing, recreational use of our green space adjacent to the downtown lakeside.

Once they allow one, they will have to allow them all over the place. Our waterfront vistas will be gone and there is no going back once they are built. I feel there needs to be at least a city block of park and non-build sites adjacent to the lake n downtown City centre. If City caves and thinks they are doing us a service by letting greedy developers build sky-scrapers, lakeside, in Kelowna they are very short-sighted. There are plenty of areas to build the highrises and still give everyone in them a perfect view. In no way, shape, or form, should they sell out the citizens of Kelowna to any developer who wanders into town with a fat wallet. Of course the developer wants the lakeside but that is OURS and it can't be for sale. We must protect it for our future generations. Kelowna can still turn into mincouver if that's the direction they want to sadly take it - but they need to keep their mitts OFF our downtown city centre lakeside as far as I'm concerned. They have already dropped the ball by going ahead with the tourism centre even though it has a lower profile.


Skyline studies have shown that the additional height would add minimal changes to the buildings shadow, the new design also pushes the building back from the lakeshore making its impact on Kerry park less then the original approved design.

And they are already allowing towers all over the place, in fact there is one slated to go up just down the street from this one, plus the massive aqua development near the eldorado.
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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby cv23 » Feb 8th, 2018, 1:08 pm

It would be helpful to provide links to these "skyline studies", specifically the "skyline studies" done on the projects mentioned?

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby Omnitheo » Feb 8th, 2018, 1:09 pm

zerograv wrote:
dle wrote:IMHO a resounding YES there are legitimate concerns. These tall buildings leave everything surrounding it in shade. They block the lake views of the pedestrians walking. They block the lake views of the traffic in the area. Walk around Vancouver on a sunny day - in some places you would never know the sun was shining unless you look up. The tall buildings should be kept down by the Grand. If they want to shroud an area in shade, fine, do it where it has already started. We should have unrestricted walking, picnicing, recreational use of our green space adjacent to the downtown lakeside.

Once they allow one, they will have to allow them all over the place. Our waterfront vistas will be gone and there is no going back once they are built. I feel there needs to be at least a city block of park and non-build sites adjacent to the lake n downtown City centre. If City caves and thinks they are doing us a service by letting greedy developers build sky-scrapers, lakeside, in Kelowna they are very short-sighted. There are plenty of areas to build the highrises and still give everyone in them a perfect view. In no way, shape, or form, should they sell out the citizens of Kelowna to any developer who wanders into town with a fat wallet. Of course the developer wants the lakeside but that is OURS and it can't be for sale. We must protect it for our future generations. Kelowna can still turn into mincouver if that's the direction they want to sadly take it - but they need to keep their mitts OFF our downtown city centre lakeside as far as I'm concerned. They have already dropped the ball by going ahead with the tourism centre even though it has a lower profile.


Skyline studies have shown that the additional height would add minimal changes to the buildings shadow, the new design also pushes the building back from the lakeshore making its impact on Kerry park less then the original approved design.

And they are already allowing towers all over the place, in fact there is one slated to go up just down the street from this one, plus the massive aqua development near the eldorado.


lol blocking lakeviews. from traffic? If you are at street level you are not going to see the lake unless you are right beside it. 1 story buildings and trees will block any view from street level. There is literally zero difference between a high rise and a shrub line if you are at street level and trying to look at a lake lower in elevation than you.
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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby zerograv » Feb 8th, 2018, 1:13 pm

cv23 wrote:It would be helpful to provide links to these "skyline studies", specifically the "skyline studies" done on the projects mentioned?



https://www.scribd.com/document/3571425 ... l-Aug-2017

here's a start :up:

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby cv23 » Feb 8th, 2018, 1:43 pm

https://www.scribd.com/document/3571425 ... l-Aug-2017

While a somewhat interesting read it is nothing more than a piece of propaganda prepared by the developer with no actual hard data provided.
It also pertains strictly to the previous proposal not the current one presently before council where both the height and massing have been substantially increased. The developer prepared statement also make note of shading at the former proposed level so obviously those concerns increase with the increase in size and massing currently being presented to council.
From an objective point of view it makes more sense to pay far more attention to the unbiased report from City Staff on the current proposal than an outdated and biased report from the developer on a previous proposal.

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby zerograv » Feb 8th, 2018, 1:48 pm

cv23 wrote:https://www.scribd.com/document/357142585/Westcorp-Hotel-Aug-2017

While a somewhat interesting read it is nothing more than a piece of propaganda prepared by the developer with no actual hard data provided.
It also pertains strictly to the previous proposal not the current one presently before council where both the height and massing have been substantially increased. The developer prepared statement also make note of shading at the former proposed level so obviously those concerns increase with the increase in size and massing currently being presented to council.
From an objective point of view it makes more sense to pay far more attention to the unbiased report from City Staff on the current proposal than an outdated and biased report from the developer on a previous proposal.


I told you the contact info was on there, call and ask them for it......And seeing as how it mentions the changes as well as the new heights, pretty obvious its directed towards the new redesign and NOT outdated.
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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby cv23 » Feb 8th, 2018, 5:20 pm

From the provided link:
Westcorp wrote:The shadow study of the previous project showed...."


"https://www.scribd.com/document/357142585/Westcorp-Hotel-Aug-2017
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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby dirtybiker » Feb 8th, 2018, 5:38 pm

So Westcorp buys and demolishes the Willow in.
They put forth a plan that gets shot down.
They ammend and downsize the plan a time or two till
one gets accepted.
They do not start the build.

Now more time passes, Councils change, and they start working their ammendments back
to upping the scale of the project again.

Yo-Yo comes to mind.

maybe get a few allowances and not some others.

Then, wait out till another Council gets elected and start in with the
ammendments to upsize again..

How am I doing ?

How many Councils and Mayors have they been playing now ?
Three if I recollect.

Wait out Councils and Mayors, wait out the lives of some old timers, wait out
the memories of others, wait for people to move away.
Wait for younger big city dwellers to move in.
And then take another shot at it.

They could have just left the Willow standing the last 10 years and at least had some
revenue generated off their property.
Not like they're in a hurry to build.
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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby voice of reason » Feb 8th, 2018, 5:54 pm

is our fire depatment equipped and prepared to handle a fire in a building of this size?

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby Even Steven » Feb 8th, 2018, 6:09 pm

voice of reason wrote:is our fire depatment equipped and prepared to handle a fire in a building of this size?


They wouldn't allow it otherwise.

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby zerograv » Feb 8th, 2018, 6:24 pm

cv23 wrote:From the provided link:
Westcorp wrote:The shadow study of the previous project showed...."


"https://www.scribd.com/document/357142585/Westcorp-Hotel-Aug-2017


Funny how you find and pull out one minor section but totally ignore anything that doesn't fit your agenda. So one line mentioning the previous building and the entire document is outdated and has nothing to do with the new design? Why not copy the whole paragraph for us so it shows how it relates to the new design?
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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby zerograv » Feb 8th, 2018, 6:30 pm

dirtybiker wrote:So Westcorp buys and demolishes the Willow in.
They put forth a plan that gets shot down.
They ammend and downsize the plan a time or two till
one gets accepted.
They do not start the build.

Now more time passes, Councils change, and they start working their ammendments back
to upping the scale of the project again.

Yo-Yo comes to mind.

maybe get a few allowances and not some others.

Then, wait out till another Council gets elected and start in with the
ammendments to upsize again..

How am I doing ?

How many Councils and Mayors have they been playing now ?
Three if I recollect.

Wait out Councils and Mayors, wait out the lives of some old timers, wait out
the memories of others, wait for people to move away.
Wait for younger big city dwellers to move in.
And then take another shot at it.

They could have just left the Willow standing the last 10 years and at least had some
revenue generated off their property.
Not like they're in a hurry to build.


I think market conditions were a bigger determining factor than anything.
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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby LANDM » Feb 9th, 2018, 5:33 am

I love it how there are complaints when a developer proposes to build something lower than initially thought, a few blocks away, and now complaints when a developer wants to build something higher.
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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby Queen K » Feb 9th, 2018, 5:41 am

LANDM wrote:I love it how there are complaints when a developer proposes to build something lower than initially thought, a few blocks away, and now complaints when a developer wants to build something higher.


I think the complaints are actually different than "too low" or "too high."

Each change represents the complete lack of respect for city planning and zoning. Both developers know that this particular city council caves and is weak. Too damned greatful these developers are doing anything at all.

Not sticking to any plans whatsoever as presented and approved.

That is what is galling in each case.
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