The Westcorp hotel....

Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby Bsuds » Feb 10th, 2018, 8:34 am

artistwithaflare wrote:We used to see the ocean and now all we see is concrete!
Kelowna will be no different. :200:


We can't see the Ocean now! :biggrin:

I can relate though. We used to see part of the lake until a house behind us was torn down and a two story duplex built. Now all we see is that.
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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby dle » Feb 10th, 2018, 8:44 am

artistwithaflare wrote:We used to see the ocean and now all we see is concrete!
Kelowna will be no different. :200:


How long have you been in Kelowna? I hope you saw it back in the day when it was super-cool. I hear you about where it's headed - will be sad times.

When I see pictures of Vancouver taken from the water and it's all skyscrapers squished together and you need a magnifying glass to see a tree it's a head-shaker. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but you can't see much when developer $$ block the view!

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby 60-YEARS-in-Ktown » Feb 10th, 2018, 9:34 am

Take a look at it now.. from city park entrance to the yacht club mooring.
NOTHING they will do to it will look better than now..
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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby johnny24 » Feb 10th, 2018, 10:00 am

dle wrote:
artistwithaflare wrote:We used to see the ocean and now all we see is concrete!
Kelowna will be no different. :200:


How long have you been in Kelowna? I hope you saw it back in the day when it was super-cool. I hear you about where it's headed - will be sad times.

When I see pictures of Vancouver taken from the water and it's all skyscrapers squished together and you need a magnifying glass to see a tree it's a head-shaker. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but you can't see much when developer $$ block the view!


You'd see far less trees if all those living spaces were sprawled out in the mountains.

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby 60-YEARS-in-Ktown » Feb 10th, 2018, 10:08 am

We have a shortage of lakeviews, not tree views..
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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby sublime » Feb 10th, 2018, 10:39 am

marooned wrote: I just hope builders remember what the city was built upon


It's not clear..? The city, builders and developers only care about one thing and its certainly not nostalgia. [icon_lol2.gif]

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby johnny24 » Feb 10th, 2018, 10:57 am

60-YEARS-in-Ktown wrote:We have a shortage of lakeviews, not tree views..


I can't see the lake no matter how tall the buildings are. People with lake views will still have lake views, no matter how tall the buildings are. The places where I used to see trees, I now see houses and strip malls.

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby johnny24 » Feb 10th, 2018, 10:58 am

sublime wrote:
marooned wrote: I just hope builders remember what the city was built upon


It's not clear..? The city, builders and developers only care about one thing and its certainly not nostalgia. [icon_lol2.gif]


Only people who care about nostalgia are the 60+ year old people and they shouldn't be deciding the future of the city.
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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby dominik » Feb 10th, 2018, 11:06 am

I think we may have gotten a little too used to the idea of lake views. I fully agree that they are great and everyone would like them, but to shut down projects "because of" lake view is simply not feasible.

While I am a bit concerned about the height of this project (primarily though due to the ground and the impact its foundation will have on roads/parks/and adjacent buildings) I think that getting a convention center, at the lake dining/shopping opportunities, as well as increased tourist density in the core should be beneficial to not only tourists but locals as well.

Will this project look out of place? Oh most definitely until you see the other towers to the left and right, and behind it rise. It is just the first one close to the lake. Shadows, views, etc. are a reality and one can't build without some of those aspects being impacted but in reality they are not as detrimental as they are made up to be.

If I drive down (ground level) Bernard, I can't see the lake until I am beside it.
If I drive 97 toward the bridge, I can barely see it until i am at the approach of the bridge.
If I drive on water street, I can't see the water until i get near the Yacht Club, and then again only a short bit.

To see the lake I get out of my car and walk the paths, the parks etc. I am not sure where this thought of lake view from the car downtown came from as that is long gone. When it comes down to it the view that is blocked is either the immediate view from buildings behind it, of which many have not enough height at this point to do so.

The other "view" is from Knox or Dilworth mountain and we are talking a small sliver is blocked, less even than the Delta, Skye, 1815, and the Grand are "blocking".

I think the view is very much an excuse for not wanting change and we should be aware of that. Kelowna has changed, in my opinion not necessarily for the better especially with the rather lackluster cohesive city planning currently in play.

We need to cluster and go higher, increase housing for locals, reduce traffic, yet it seems we'd rather go far and wide increasing the need for vehicles and thereby traffic.

Each development should meet or exceed minimal criteria, and yes this building presents us with a series of questions about height and location, all of which are justified. What impresses me about the development is the implementation of parking (partially what increases the buildings height to 130 meters) which should be crucial for any development downtown.

Some have mentioned that the buildings height nearly doubled which is actually incorrect from what I have seen and based on the differences we are going from 26 stories to 33 (if we are talking meters including the parking structure it is going from 80 to 130 meters, simple math puts that at roughly 61% not double).

I am honestly not sure about the reporting on the hotel the other news site in town leads with its nearly doubled (sorry but no rounding I have ever done takes 61% and rounds it up to 90% or 100% at most its 65%). The same then was repeated here.

Facts, they suck sometimes especially when people are emotionally invested in a topic. Does the building present us with serious issues? Yes, are they what is being primarily presented? Nope not at all.

People forget that the hotel will have a Public Restaurant halfway up, that it sits on a pedestal to reduce onstreet parking, that it brings a convention and shopping center, etc.

What should be questioned is, how will the footprint of the structure affect the surrounding soil/silt. What costs will be for the city when considering the roads will warp due to the water / ground being shifted? (The Manhattan is a perfect example for that) Road access? we know there are at that point 2-3 roads all single lane traffic leading to the hotel, can we remove intersections, remove traffic lights, or ease the traffic flow in an effective manner which actually may improve the downtown feel?

Westcorp offered last time around new parks, public spaces, not connected to the development, are these deals still on the table, and so on. How will the 50 residences and 174 hotel rooms affect the cities ability of getting our tourism subsidies back from the province?

As you can see there are a lot of things to consider, I have to say the immediate look and feel of the hotel is important but to argue lake view.... that is a bit of a joke.

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby voice of reason » Feb 10th, 2018, 11:54 am

johnny24 wrote:
Only people who care about nostalgia are the 60+ year old people and they shouldn't be deciding the future of the city.

keep that in mind as you reach 60 and live in a concrete jungle with one road going thru the middle and one bridge .

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby johnny24 » Feb 10th, 2018, 11:59 am

voice of reason wrote:
johnny24 wrote:
Only people who care about nostalgia are the 60+ year old people and they shouldn't be deciding the future of the city.

keep that in mind as you reach 60 and live in a concrete jungle with one road going thru the middle and one bridge .


Exactly, that's why we need to start now. One building may look out of place now, but need to plan for the future.
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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby 60-YEARS-in-Ktown » Feb 10th, 2018, 12:43 pm

So are you thinking we should build hi rises along our waterfront, because every other town has ?
That we are better being the same as them, than having a more unique uncluttered foreshore.
People seem to like coming here the fact that we are not the same as other places, doesn't seem to keep people away.
I'd like to help You OUT,
Which way did You come in??

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby dominik » Feb 10th, 2018, 6:00 pm

60-YEARS-in-Ktown wrote:So are you thinking we should build hi rises along our waterfront, because every other town has ?
That we are better being the same as them, than having a more unique uncluttered foreshore.
People seem to like coming here the fact that we are not the same as other places, doesn't seem to keep people away.


It has nothing to do with better, it has to do with logical urban planning, and the reality of where the assumed city center of Kelowna is. In reality I'd consider the area around Kirschner more the City Center and would expect many more towers there however as these hotels and luxury condos are supposed to attract tourism and outside dollars they will have to conform to what the expectations of tourists are.

The one thing one could do is find one architectural outfit, have them design the whole of the downtown lakeshore and bernard area and then have developers build to plan, but that doesn't happen here so we are left with what we have had for decades (not pretty I know).

In addition if developed as now proposed it would actually add more retail and entertainment as well as dining options with explicit exposure and view of the lake than we have currently. The devil is in the details however and it will need plenty of going back and forth between the developer and city, at the same time Bernard will change substantially and if we consider the view from Dilworth it will be obstructed by 6 towers anyway. (not counting the ones already there)
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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby cv23 » Feb 10th, 2018, 7:54 pm

The one thing one could do is find one architectural outfit, have them design the whole of the downtown lakeshore and bernard area and then have developers build to plan, but that doesn't happen here so we are left with what we have had for decades (not pretty I know).

Cleary the poster hasn't lived in Kelowna very long or they would remember the CD21 proposal and that it was so poorly viewed by the public and area stakeholders that it cost the the mayor who backed it his job.
We already have an Official Community Plan and it called for 12 storys max on the Old Willow Inn site not the 30 or so Westcorp now wants on that site so obviously expecting developers to follow someone other than their own plan is simply not going to happen unless Kelowna elects a City Council with the testicular fortitude to follow the vision the community and the area stakeholders took the time to create.

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby Terris » Feb 10th, 2018, 7:56 pm

Wow...

Going by the posts here, one can definitely discern those who hold a sense of long term, old school, hometown Kelowna pride, and those who interests here are not so long term, with little interest in the collective hometown Kelowna values.

This hotel is ugly, and affront to those hometown values.

The location is wrong for esthetic reasons and more importantly for reasons of geologic stability.

The Kelowna waterfront is too unstable, and too valuable as a heritage site for such grandiose nonsense.

Albertans destroyed the Kelowna Regatta in their riotous behaviors and now they seek to destroy the landscape.

If they don't like our hometown values than go drink some Alberta crude instead of Kelowna wine and quit buying up and jacking up the prices of our lands.

Time to end this Albertan blight, with good riddance I say...

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