The Westcorp hotel....

Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby dle » Feb 11th, 2018, 9:12 am

60-YEARS-in-Ktown wrote:We have a shortage of lakeviews, not tree views..


I just used the word "tree" as in something "natural" as opposed to constructed obstructions :smt045 ...

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby dle » Feb 11th, 2018, 9:32 am

Johnny24 said:


Only people who care about nostalgia are the 60+ year old people and they shouldn't be deciding the future of the city[quote][/quote]

Where to start with this? So, first off, "nostalgia" is actually another way to say "historical memories", and most people do care about that to the extent that there would be no present, and less information to plan for the future, without it. Secondly, 60+ people have actual life experience, been around the block a few times, bear witness to some really good ideas and some really bad ones, making them highly qualified to contribute to "deciding the future of the city". They are hardly fossils. This comment of yours magnifies your inexperience, with perhaps a rather closed-minded view of what constitutes a decision-making panel of people and is, well rather insulting.

As for my own "nostalgic" feelings about Kelowna, I am proudly one of those who is fortunate enough to be able to say "I remember it when....". There are many younger people who have already missed out on being part of a truly iconic City - it really has changed that much in what seems a very short time. Sure, they will build their own "historical memories" collection and life goes on. I believe mostly everyone can draw something out of their own "nostaglia bank" that, to them, was just the "finest time", and something that could have merit going forward in planning the City's future course.

I hope we don't leave any person of any age out of any future decisions.

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby johnny24 » Feb 11th, 2018, 10:03 am

dle wrote:Johnny24 said:


Only people who care about nostalgia are the 60+ year old people and they shouldn't be deciding the future of the city


Where to start with this? So, first off, "nostalgia" is actually another way to say "historical memories", and most people do care about that to the extent that there would be no present, and less information to plan for the future, without it. Secondly, 60+ people have actual life experience, been around the block a few times, bear witness to some really good ideas and some really bad ones, making them highly qualified to contribute to "deciding the future of the city". They are hardly fossils. This comment of yours magnifies your inexperience, with perhaps a rather closed-minded view of what constitutes a decision-making panel of people and is, well rather insulting.

As for my own "nostalgic" feelings about Kelowna, I am proudly one of those who is fortunate enough to be able to say "I remember it when....". There are many younger people who have already missed out on being part of a truly iconic City - it really has changed that much in what seems a very short time. Sure, they will build their own "historical memories" collection and life goes on. I believe mostly everyone can draw something out of their own "nostaglia bank" that, to them, was just the "finest time", and something that could have merit going forward in planning the City's future course.

I hope we don't leave any person of any age out of any future decisions.


Iconic? What's so iconic that you're afraid will disappear with the building of a tall building? You consider strip malls lining the highways iconic?

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby dle » Feb 11th, 2018, 12:46 pm

Johnny24 said:
Iconic? What's so iconic that you're afraid will disappear with the building of a tall building? You consider strip malls lining the highways iconic?
[/quote]




That's just it Johnny24 - the concern is that it won't stop with just ONE "tall" building (they are trying for 33 floors so let's say VERY tall in this case). I made no mention of the highway, or strip malls at all. My concern is regarding LAKESIDE property building - sorry if I wasn't clear before. What will disappear is the parkland etc directly adjacent to the lakeside. It is obvious they want to build "tall" buildings - that's how present council envisions the "new and improved" Kelowna - my hope is that they stay a city block AWAY from our lake.

Down by the Grand, they have developed the immediate lakeside for ALL to enjoy while incorporating set-back highrises. That's a great area for highrises. I would like to see the downtown lakeside devoid of highrises. I would like to see more activity based additions - like they did with Stewart park skating rink, the boardwalk, etc right from Stewart Park rink to the bridge.

That's just MHO.

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby Terris » Feb 11th, 2018, 1:32 pm

dominik wrote:I think we may have gotten a little too used to the idea of lake views. I fully agree that they are great and everyone would like them, but to shut down projects "because of" lake view is simply not feasible.


The problem with this statement is that; when I was growing up here you could actually once see the lake from where Orchard Park stands now. "Development" since then has eliminated that.

How much more view loss is necessary to satisfy the developers? It seems that for some people, we are reaching a limit to how much of the original town site needs to be "developed". Sometimes it's better to do nothing than to keep doing the wrong thing...

Development feeds itself and developers hold out the notion$ that what they do is always a good idea.

Not all the development here is good, or socially beneficial, or wise, or view enhancing, or efficient use of land and simply suggesting that we need to start getting used to diminishing lake views is not an enhancement to the living conditions of this town.

johnny24 wrote:Only people who care about nostalgia are the 60+ year old people and they shouldn't be deciding the future of the city.


The problem with this statement is that it's completely misinformed, regarding the previous 50-60 years of "developmental" history here in Kelowna.

The current paradigm of strip malls kept fed by running a major clogfest highway right through the core was initially conceived of and enacted upon and "developed"by the 20, 30, 40 and 50-something year old scions of the original Old Boys Network who still profit from their creation.

The vast majority of former farmlands on which these strip malls sit were "acquired" by their daddies and you can still see the same family/company names on many of the development and real estate signs that were being seen in the 60's.

This status quo is the best these 1970's era playboys could come up with.

Time to change this profit first paradigm and plan the future of Kelowna for the benefit of all who live here; not just for the entitled few...

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby johnny24 » Feb 11th, 2018, 2:03 pm

Terris wrote:
The problem with this statement is that; when I was growing up here you could actually once see the lake from where Orchard Park stands now. "Development" since then has eliminated that.


You could? Which development eliminated that view?

johnny24 wrote:Only people who care about nostalgia are the 60+ year old people and they shouldn't be deciding the future of the city.


Terris wrote:

The problem with this statement is that it's completely misinformed, regarding the previous 50-60 years of "developmental" history here in Kelowna.

The current paradigm of strip malls kept fed by running a major clogfest highway right through the core was initially conceived of and enacted upon and "developed"by the 20, 30, 40 and 50-something year old scions of the original Old Boys Network who still profit from their creation.

The vast majority of former farmlands on which these strip malls sit were "acquired" by their daddies and you can still see the same family/company names on many of the development and real estate signs that were being seen in the 60's.

This status quo is the best these 1970's era playboys could come up with.

Time to change this profit first paradigm and plan the future of Kelowna for the benefit of all who live here; not just for the entitled few...


It's not misinformed, it's my opinion. I don't really see a lot of nostalgia in this city to begin with, but shouldn't we let the 30-40 year olds decide which direction they want their city to head?

I couldn't really follow your point on the rest of the post. My point is that if we want to save parkland, building up is the better option. Then we have parks and tall buildings. Both are visually appealing in my opinion.
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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby MAPearce » Feb 11th, 2018, 2:06 pm

If I'm standing at the Sails , I can see the lake ..... If I'm standing at the Grateful Fed , I can't...

What's the fuss over the loss of view really all about ?
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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby johnny24 » Feb 11th, 2018, 2:12 pm

MAPearce wrote:If I'm standing at the Sails , I can see the lake ..... If I'm standing at the Grateful Fed , I can't...

What's the fuss over the loss of view really all about ?


Yep, and if two 6 ft tall guys walk in front of me, I can't see the lake at the sails either.

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby Terris » Feb 11th, 2018, 3:16 pm

johnny24 wrote: You could? Which development eliminated that view?


The strip mall view that you see now; instead of the view of the lake of course... :135:

johnny24 wrote: It's not misinformed, it's my opinion. I don't really see a lot of nostalgia in this city to begin with, but shouldn't we let the 30-40 year olds decide which direction they want their city to head?


Everyone deserves a say; but did you miss the part where I pointed out that it was the spoiled brat 30-50 somethings who developed these strip malls in the first place and who have now passed this inheritance down to their currently 20-40 something offspring?

Point being, that to forget the past is to be doomed to repeat it. Mistakes and all...

99.9% of 30-somethings I've ever met are not experienced enough to cast a glance into the future and make sound decisions beyond their own immediate wants as opposed to the immediate needs of the greater populace, whose continually increasing tax dollars have been paying for the infrastructure to feed these profit driven "developments".

johnny24 wrote: I couldn't really follow your point on the rest of the post. My point is that if we want to save parkland, building up is the better option. Then we have parks and tall buildings. Both are visually appealing in my opinion.


There isn't enough parkland as it is.

So...

Which lands in downtown Kelowna are you proposing be bulldozed and turned into enough parkland so that a high-rise dweller can have a lake view and also see all the beautiful parkland below from their elevated viewpoints.

Here's a prophetic blast from the past that seems to fit what's happening to Kelowna right now.

Enjoy...

https://www.bing.com/search?q=paved+par ... F891342040
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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby Even Steven » Feb 11th, 2018, 4:01 pm

*removed*
Last edited by ferri on Feb 11th, 2018, 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Off Topic

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby johnny24 » Feb 11th, 2018, 4:27 pm

Terris wrote:
The strip mall view that you see now; instead of the view of the lake of course... :135:


I can't recall ever being able to see the lake from Orchard Park. I'll take your word for it, but I don't think protecting this view should have been a big priority for the city.

Terris wrote:
Everyone deserves a say; but did you miss the part where I pointed out that it was the spoiled brat 30-50 somethings who developed these strip malls in the first place and who have now passed this inheritance down to their currently 20-40 something offspring?

Point being, that to forget the past is to be doomed to repeat it. Mistakes and all...


So these people will be about 60-70 now, and you still want them to continue making decisions and developing more strip malls?

Terris wrote:

There isn't enough parkland as it is.

So...

Which lands in downtown Kelowna are you proposing be bulldozed and turned into enough parkland so that a high-rise dweller can have a lake view and also see all the beautiful parkland below from their elevated viewpoints.



We seem to agree about not enough parkland. Isn't building up a way to preserve this? I could care less if someone in a high rise has a lake or park view. I don't have one where i live. If i want to see a park or lake, then I'll go there.
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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby dle » Feb 11th, 2018, 4:45 pm

johnny24 wrote:
Terris wrote:
The strip mall view that you see now; instead of the view of the lake of course... :135:


I can't recall ever being able to see the lake from Orchard Park. I'll take your word for it, but I don't think protecting this view should have been a big priority for the city.

Terris wrote:
Everyone deserves a say; but did you miss the part where I pointed out that it was the spoiled brat 30-50 somethings who developed these strip malls in the first place and who have now passed this inheritance down to their currently 20-40 something offspring?

Point being, that to forget the past is to be doomed to repeat it. Mistakes and all...


So these people will be about 60-70 now, and you still want them to continue making decisions and developing more strip malls?

Terris wrote:

There isn't enough parkland as it is.

So...

Which lands in downtown Kelowna are you proposing be bulldozed and turned into enough parkland so that a high-rise dweller can have a lake view and also see all the beautiful parkland below from their elevated viewpoints.



We seem to agree about not enough parkland. Isn't building up a way to preserve this? I could care less if someone in a high rise has a lake or park view. I don't have one where i live. If i want to see a park or lake, then I'll go there.


Crikey Johnny24 - the ONLY way to preserve the parkland we already have adjacent to the lake downtown IS NOT BUILD ON IT! Don't sell it to developers. Back ALL development at least a block away from the lake in the downtown core. What is so hard to understand about it?

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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby MAPearce » Feb 11th, 2018, 4:51 pm

Crikey Johnny24 - the ONLY way to preserve the parkland we already have adjacent to the lake downtown IS NOT BUILD ON IT! Don't sell it to developers. Back ALL development at least a block away from the lake in the downtown core. What is so hard to understand about it?


hard to beat that ........

If we don't start now , there will be nothing left for us common folk to enjoy .

The argument of tall buildings blocking the view is getting stale . A respect for "peoplekind" being able to access it as fresh as a daisy.
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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby Even Steven » Feb 11th, 2018, 5:02 pm

Tall buildings don't block the access to the precious lake.
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Re: The Westcorp hotel....

Postby dle » Feb 11th, 2018, 5:09 pm

MAPearce wrote:
Crikey Johnny24 - the ONLY way to preserve the parkland we already have adjacent to the lake downtown IS NOT BUILD ON IT! Don't sell it to developers. Back ALL development at least a block away from the lake in the downtown core. What is so hard to understand about it?


hard to beat that ........

If we don't start now , there will be nothing left for us common folk to enjoy .

The argument of tall buildings blocking the view is getting stale . A respect for "peoplekind" being able to access it as fresh as a daisy.


Yes, and it's not all about VIEW or about the tall buildings blocking the view - it's all about the building of it on the park and other properties IMMEDIATELY ADJACENT TO THE LAKE DOWNTOWN. At least if the parks and property are left preserved at the waterfront downtown, we can ALL still go there and enjoy the view of the lake, the mountains, the boats, the "whatevers"- from lake level, walking, playing in the sand, picnics, bocci, sunning, playing frisbee, eating buckets of salted fries and vinegar, doing beachy stuff! This is Kelowna on Okanagan Lake - a water playground! If the building is right on the parkland we can't do that. Once it's built, we can't undo it. Once there is one, there will be more.

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