Mayor Wants Homeless Criminalized

Re: Mayor Wants Homeless Criminalized

Postby fz6adventure » Feb 22nd, 2018, 8:00 pm

voice of reason wrote:so your answer is to let them "camp" in the park. no thanks.city park doesnt need to turn in to a shanty town . that is the dumbest idea i have ever heard


I'll suggest that if you understood the ruling, you might reconsider. By no means allowing them to occupy public spaces between 7PM and 9AM does this mean an area will turn into a "shanty town".

Here is one summary of the Abbotsford ruling:

Abbotsford homeless lawsuit: What the decision means
Abbotsford (City) v. Shantz, 2015 BCSC 1909

Background

In the case of B.C./Yukon Association of Drug War Survivors (DWS) v. Abbotsford, homeless people challenged three City of Abbotsford bylaws that have been used to displace the homeless population from public spaces throughout the city.
DJ Larkin, of Pivot Legal Society, and David Wotherspoon, of Fasken Martineau, represented DWS in the court action. They argued that the City’s actions in displacing homeless people violates their rights under section 2(c) and 2(d) (assembly and association), section 7 (right to life, liberty, and security of the person), and section 15 (equality) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

During the six-week trial that began on June 29, 2015, the Court heard from several homeless Abbotsford residents who detailed how municipal bylaws have been enforced to displace people sheltering in public spaces despite the fact that many have no other options for shelter. Testimonies describe how homeless campers have had tents pepper sprayed by police, had chicken manure dumped on their camp, and been subjected to countless other displacement tactics that put their lives at risk.

Many of the homeless campers are Aboriginal, and nearly all of the homeless campers have live with addiction, mental health issues and/or physical disabilities. By failing to provide safe housing options and health services, and by targeting homeless people based on their use of public spaces, DWS argued that the City of Abbotsford’s bylaws and actions discriminate against the homeless campers on the basis of disability and Aboriginal heritage, and violate their right to equal protection and benefit of the law.


The Decision


On October 21, 2015, the Honourable Chief Justice Hinkson of the BC Supreme Court rendered his decision.

The Chief Justice ruled that Abbotsford’s bylaws (ss. 14 and 15 of the Consolidated Parks Bylaw, and subsection 2.7(d) of the Good Neighbour Bylaw) which prohibit Abbotsford’s homeless from sleeping or being in a City park overnight or erecting a temporary shelter without permits are unconstitutional. He found that the bylaws violate the liberty and security of the person rights of homeless people in Abbotsford, as protected by s. 7 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

The ruling allows people to erect shelters and sleep in the City’s public spaces and parks between the hours of 7:00 p.m. and 9:00 a.m. This decision means that homeless people can no longer be evicted from public spaces and parks during those hours.

The Court found that Abbotsford’s bylaws interfere with the fundamentally important personal decision to shelter one’s self in circumstances where there is no practicable alternative shelter. (para 188)

The Court found that the bylaws that deny the City’s homeless overnight access to public spaces and prevent them from erecting temporary shelters without permits are overbroad.

The Court also concluded that the “constant movement of the homeless exacerbated their already vulnerable positions, as it inhibited the ability of the service providers who endeavoured to help the City’s homeless to actually locate them and provide help. I thus find that the evidence supports a finding that the Impugned Bylaws have had a serious effect on the psychological or physical integrity of the City's homeless.” (para 209)

On this basis, the Court concluded that the bylaws effects are grossly disproportionate to any benefit that the City might derive from furthering its objectives.

Further, the Court said, “I am satisfied that the evidence led by DWS establishes that continual displacement of the City’s homeless causes them impaired sleep and serious psychological pain and stress and creates a risk to their health.” (para 219)

The Court’s decision is effective immediately.


The decision was consistent with an earlier ruling by the BC Court of Appeal concerning the City of Victoria.
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Re: Mayor Wants Homeless Criminalized

Postby voice of reason » Feb 22nd, 2018, 9:39 pm

fz6adventure wrote:
voice of reason wrote:so your answer is to let them "camp" in the park. no thanks.city park doesnt need to turn in to a shanty town . that is the dumbest idea i have ever heard


I'll suggest that if you understood the ruling, you might reconsider. By no means allowing them to occupy public spaces between 7PM and 9AM does this mean an area will turn into a "shanty town".

Here is one summary of the Abbotsford ruling:

Abbotsford homeless lawsuit: What the decision means
Abbotsford (City) v. Shantz, 2015 BCSC 1909

Background

In the case of B.C./Yukon Association of Drug War Survivors (DWS) v. Abbotsford, homeless people challenged three City of Abbotsford bylaws that have been used to displace the homeless population from public spaces throughout the city.
DJ Larkin, of Pivot Legal Society, and David Wotherspoon, of Fasken Martineau, represented DWS in the court action. They argued that the City’s actions in displacing homeless people violates their rights under section 2(c) and 2(d) (assembly and association), section 7 (right to life, liberty, and security of the person), and section 15 (equality) of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

During the six-week trial that began on June 29, 2015, the Court heard from several homeless Abbotsford residents who detailed how municipal bylaws have been enforced to displace people sheltering in public spaces despite the fact that many have no other options for shelter. Testimonies describe how homeless campers have had tents pepper sprayed by police, had chicken manure dumped on their camp, and been subjected to countless other displacement tactics that put their lives at risk.

Many of the homeless campers are Aboriginal, and nearly all of the homeless campers have live with addiction, mental health issues and/or physical disabilities. By failing to provide safe housing options and health services, and by targeting homeless people based on their use of public spaces, DWS argued that the City of Abbotsford’s bylaws and actions discriminate against the homeless campers on the basis of disability and Aboriginal heritage, and violate their right to equal protection and benefit of the law.


The Decision


On October 21, 2015, the Honourable Chief Justice Hinkson of the BC Supreme Court rendered his decision.

The Chief Justice ruled that Abbotsford’s bylaws (ss. 14 and 15 of the Consolidated Parks Bylaw, and subsection 2.7(d) of the Good Neighbour Bylaw) which prohibit Abbotsford’s homeless from sleeping or being in a City park overnight or erecting a temporary shelter without permits are unconstitutional. He found that the bylaws violate the liberty and security of the person rights of homeless people in Abbotsford, as protected by s. 7 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

The ruling allows people to erect shelters and sleep in the City’s public spaces and parks between the hours of 7:00 p.m. and 9:00 a.m. This decision means that homeless people can no longer be evicted from public spaces and parks during those hours.

The Court found that Abbotsford’s bylaws interfere with the fundamentally important personal decision to shelter one’s self in circumstances where there is no practicable alternative shelter. (para 188)

The Court found that the bylaws that deny the City’s homeless overnight access to public spaces and prevent them from erecting temporary shelters without permits are overbroad.

The Court also concluded that the “constant movement of the homeless exacerbated their already vulnerable positions, as it inhibited the ability of the service providers who endeavoured to help the City’s homeless to actually locate them and provide help. I thus find that the evidence supports a finding that the Impugned Bylaws have had a serious effect on the psychological or physical integrity of the City's homeless.” (para 209)

On this basis, the Court concluded that the bylaws effects are grossly disproportionate to any benefit that the City might derive from furthering its objectives.

Further, the Court said, “I am satisfied that the evidence led by DWS establishes that continual displacement of the City’s homeless causes them impaired sleep and serious psychological pain and stress and creates a risk to their health.” (para 219)

The Court’s decision is effective immediately.


The decision was consistent with an earlier ruling by the BC Court of Appeal concerning the City of Victoria.

until there is a ruling concerning the city of kelowna this is a non-issue
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Re: Mayor Wants Homeless Criminalized

Postby fz6adventure » Feb 22nd, 2018, 10:21 pm

voice of reason wrote:until there is a ruling concerning the city of kelowna this is a non-issue


The way it works is that for the next person that is a victim of not being permitted to sleep in a public place, the award by the courts to that person will be an extremely large amount to send the message that if government continues to ignore a proven Charter Law, they will pay the price.

Abbotsford's pain was well over $600,000 so I would expect the next award will be in line or larger than that. Not a good use of tax dollars IMO.
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Re: Mayor Wants Homeless Criminalized

Postby fz6adventure » Feb 26th, 2018, 7:17 pm

The hits just keep on ringing for our control freak council and their mall cop bylaw department. I can hardly wait to get my first bylaw ticket for giving a needy person my cans/bottles or for tossing them some loose change!

KELOWNA - Expect restrictions on panhandling near banks and liquor stores in Kelowna under a revamped panhandling bylaw. And giving your bottles or money away in certain areas could net you a fine, too.

Bylaw services manager David Gazley gave Kelowna city council today, Feb. 26, a glimpse of a revamped panhandling bylaw after Coun. Ryan Donn expressed concerns about its potential for “criminalizing the homeless."

Gazley told council the new bylaw would set limits around panhandling rather than try to harass people who do it or forbid it completely.

“We don’t want to make criminals out of panhandlers,” Gazley said. “They have a right to earn a living."

Gazley said he’s considering a no-panhandling zone around banks and cash machines as well as liquor stores, but it will also feature restrictions on the other side of the transaction.

“A lot what we’re talking about here is folks who are actually contributing to or enabling the problem,” he said. “So a lot of the news rules... will be about setting up perimeters to not give bottles or monies to folks that are panhandling in those areas, causing traffic issues or... making it dangerous.”

Public safety is an issue with banks and cash machines of particular concern.

“We want to avoid those situations as well, so they're not saying ‘we know you just got money from the bank,'" he said.

A revamped panhandling bylaw will be added to the so-called Good Neighbour bylaw, a catchall that groups together noise, litter, nuisance and unsightly premises violations.

Kelowna council adopted the super-bylaw last fall giving officers for the first time the ability to attach monetary fines to property taxes of repeat offenders.

Kelowna already has a bylaw prohibiting the obstruction of sidewalks; a regulation some critics say is aimed solely at controlling the homeless.

A final recommendation on the panhandling bylaw will be returned to council very soon, Gazley said.


Interesting that no council or the mayor, other than Donn, spoke up in opposition to the mall cop presentation.
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Re: Mayor Wants Homeless Criminalized

Postby lesliepaul » Feb 26th, 2018, 8:21 pm

fz6adventure wrote:The hits just keep on ringing for our control freak council and their mall cop bylaw department. I can hardly wait to get my first bylaw ticket for giving a needy person my cans/bottles or for tossing them some loose change!

KELOWNA - Expect restrictions on panhandling near banks and liquor stores in Kelowna under a revamped panhandling bylaw. And giving your bottles or money away in certain areas could net you a fine, too.

Bylaw services manager David Gazley gave Kelowna city council today, Feb. 26, a glimpse of a revamped panhandling bylaw after Coun. Ryan Donn expressed concerns about its potential for “criminalizing the homeless."

Gazley told council the new bylaw would set limits around panhandling rather than try to harass people who do it or forbid it completely.

“We don’t want to make criminals out of panhandlers,” Gazley said. “They have a right to earn a living."

Gazley said he’s considering a no-panhandling zone around banks and cash machines as well as liquor stores, but it will also feature restrictions on the other side of the transaction.

“A lot what we’re talking about here is folks who are actually contributing to or enabling the problem,” he said. “So a lot of the news rules... will be about setting up perimeters to not give bottles or monies to folks that are panhandling in those areas, causing traffic issues or... making it dangerous.”

Public safety is an issue with banks and cash machines of particular concern.

“We want to avoid those situations as well, so they're not saying ‘we know you just got money from the bank,'" he said.

A revamped panhandling bylaw will be added to the so-called Good Neighbour bylaw, a catchall that groups together noise, litter, nuisance and unsightly premises violations.

Kelowna council adopted the super-bylaw last fall giving officers for the first time the ability to attach monetary fines to property taxes of repeat offenders.

Kelowna already has a bylaw prohibiting the obstruction of sidewalks; a regulation some critics say is aimed solely at controlling the homeless.

A final recommendation on the panhandling bylaw will be returned to council very soon, Gazley said.


Interesting that no council or the mayor, other than Donn, spoke up in opposition to the mall cop presentation.


I'm with you there............I'll exercise my right to drive and head down to where Bylaws are standing and get rid of my loose change! Kelowna sure has a bunch of voted in complete :cuss: IDIOT$

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Re: Mayor Wants Homeless Criminalized

Postby MalaPropina » Feb 26th, 2018, 8:37 pm

Its about time!

I'm tired of being accosted outside the bank, the liquor store parking lots and around the bottle depot. I'm tired of having someone knocking on my truck window before I even have time to turn it off. They should also apply this to grocery stores. They always try to hit you up before you go in to do your shopping...rarely on your way out after you've spent your money. Tell them you'll buy them food and they say no. They want your cash, not a sandwich.

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Re: Mayor Wants Homeless Criminalized

Postby the truth » Feb 26th, 2018, 10:05 pm

my wife today was parking downtown, a junkie would not leave here alone wanted -spare some change crap that they always do, she said he would not leave her alone says he was very aggressive :swear: :swear: :cuss: :cuss: daaam i wish i was there with here, -guess thats ok with you leftwinger types- :swear: good thing is with all that rich money going into all these new 1 million plus condos the city has no choice but to clean up these scum bags the best they can
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Re: Mayor Wants Homeless Criminalized

Postby csm » Feb 27th, 2018, 10:46 am

Well, should give you all an easy choice for who to NOT vote for in the next municipal election. The way he is going, he will make the Lieberal fold in no time!
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Re: Mayor Wants Homeless Criminalized

Postby Mtn Biker » Feb 27th, 2018, 3:35 pm

I see the hatred continues. My previous comments all taken down, not sure why?? Anyhow, Kelowna citizens must be proud to be such an inclusive community minded town. Seems that way by all the positive attitudes and sunshine being spread in this uplifting, empowering thread.
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Re: Mayor Wants Homeless Criminalized

Postby CapitalB » Feb 27th, 2018, 3:42 pm

the truth wrote: the city has no choice but to clean up these scum bags the best they can


The only way to "clean up" this problem and those people would be to insert them into a government run program that would help them with their mental illness / addiction / lack of job / home / social / and family support networks. People with these things don't end up on the streets, they end up on a couch, the end up with the people that care for them, they eventually overcome their problems. People that have none of those privileges are at a significant disadvantage.

These are people alone and adrift in our communities. They aren't villains they are victims, its unfortunate that they inconvenience 'us' but as far as they're concerned its survival.
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.

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Re: Mayor Wants Homeless Criminalized

Postby fz6adventure » Mar 1st, 2018, 1:34 pm

Kelowna bylaws prohibit the homeless from sleeping on in any public area including on a sidewalk or in a park. They can't take up camp on private property or they are trespassing. Just where are they going to sleep?

And Basran can stand up and say he is not targeting the homeless - what a crock of BS! A good way to tell when he is lying - you see his lips moving!
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Re: Mayor Wants Homeless Criminalized

Postby alanjh595 » Mar 1st, 2018, 1:49 pm

fz6adventure wrote:Kelowna bylaws prohibit the homeless from sleeping on in any public area including on a sidewalk or in a park. They can't take up camp on private property or they are trespassing. Just where are they going to sleep?


Crown land.
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Re: Mayor Wants Homeless Criminalized

Postby the truth » Mar 1st, 2018, 2:18 pm

fz6adventure wrote:Kelowna bylaws prohibit the homeless from sleeping on in any public area including on a sidewalk or in a park. They can't take up camp on private property or they are trespassing. Just where are they going to sleep?

And Basran can stand up and say he is not targeting the homeless - what a crock of BS! A good way to tell when he is lying - you see his lips moving!

from the looks of it, in this town, they sleep where ever they want
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Re: Mayor Wants Homeless Criminalized

Postby fz6adventure » Mar 1st, 2018, 6:05 pm

alanjh595 wrote:
fz6adventure wrote:Kelowna bylaws prohibit the homeless from sleeping on in any public area including on a sidewalk or in a park. They can't take up camp on private property or they are trespassing. Just where are they going to sleep?


Crown land.


Thanks. Can you tell me where the crown land is in Kelowna?
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Re: Mayor Wants Homeless Criminalized

Postby MalaPropina » Mar 1st, 2018, 6:42 pm

fz6adventure wrote:
Thanks. Can you tell me where the crown land is in Kelowna?


Out toward Joe Rich? McCulloch? Past the Mission by Little White? The Connector?

Of course there are regulations in place on crown land regarding length of stay, campfires, refuse and I'd also imagine regarding sanitation.
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