Proposed development for the old Woolworth's site

Re: Proposed development for the old Woolworth's site

Postby WalterWhite » Feb 24th, 2018, 10:36 am

Great spot for a 33 story tower - oh, wait....
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Re: Proposed development for the old Woolworth's site

Postby Gone_Fishin » Feb 24th, 2018, 10:47 am

Queen K wrote:Bargain Shop for new comers.

Mission Group.
Huge structure.
Old Kelowna is dead in the water.

City Council will be told to, once again, bend over.
City Council, "how far down?"

Here it goes.

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#219557



I don't get it. You relentlessly cheer for the NDP that says it's going to provide several hundred thousand new living units in BC to enable "affordability," and yet when someone proposes building more housing spaces to help supplement the housing inventory, you oppose it. Can you explain why you oppose development of new housing units while at the same time cheer on Horgan's pledge to provide more housing units?
Hey Horgan, orange and green mixed together make brown, and that's the colour of crap!

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Re: Proposed development for the old Woolworth's site

Postby Tack » Feb 24th, 2018, 10:49 am

normaM wrote:And now they are proposing to tear down houses S Pandosy ... shoeboxes for all


This is classic boomer talk. A belief that people need 3000sq ft homes with yards just for them to use 1% of the year. Wasteful and unsustainable. Front yards are even worse, no one ever uses their front yard, instead we plant non native species on them and waste water to keep it looking pretty. Those 2 houses look like tiny rotting buildings anyways like most on that area are. I'd rather live in a new building than pay $300/mo to heat a 800sqft mouse infested old home.

The reality is population is constantly increasing and condos and townhomes, from 600-1800sqft are more than enough for many people and families. If you're against these developments move to Cherryville, not much happening there. I'm not saying there should be no consultation or master plan. Our city can do better with their planning. However we need the density, not more 1 million dollar single family homes on the mountain. Also affordable is a relative term, having hundreds of condos on the market allows more buying options. Maybe not affordable to minimum wage earners but lots of families in the Okanagan can qualify for that. There is a distinct lack of selection in that price range right now.

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Re: Proposed development for the old Woolworth's site

Postby Queen K » Feb 24th, 2018, 11:03 am

Gone_Fishin wrote:
Queen K wrote:Bargain Shop for new comers.

Mission Group.
Huge structure.
Old Kelowna is dead in the water.

City Council will be told to, once again, bend over.
City Council, "how far down?"

Here it goes.

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#219557



I don't get it. You relentlessly cheer for the NDP that says it's going to provide several hundred thousand new living units in BC to enable "affordability," and yet when someone proposes building more housing spaces to help supplement the housing inventory, you oppose it. Can you explain why you oppose development of new housing units while at the same time cheer on Horgan's pledge to provide more housing units?


You've asked a fair question. It's not the housing I'm opposed to. Re-read what I've said in my original post: it's the city councils complete inability to set building limites in Kelowna without being run over by developers. Variances are routine. Developments get built not looking like what they were proposed in the first place, Central Green for instance. Ghetto like structures are being built resembling the projects. Kelowna is being uglified by the very development needed, only it's not being done in a way that benefits the city long term. What could have been is quite often sacrificed by the reality of uglification. Have you seen the corner of Summit and Glenmore? That is a building crime scene, in my opinion.

Have you seen Guisichan? And how close those balconies are to Gordon Drive? A developers cheap solution to fitting in as much as possible without thought to living space.

If I was selfish, I'd say all this unbridled development only increases my property value, being that it's a manageable house on a huge lot. If that is true, I am sad to take it.

And thanks for the good question: only I don't think Horgan fits into this. :up:
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Re: Proposed development for the old Woolworth's site

Postby LolaB » Feb 24th, 2018, 11:22 am

... and here the story continues with insanely high buildings... We do not have the environment right in downtown for tall structures but city somehow ignores it. Surrounded by the lake, hills, bridge, narrow streets - where do you think people will exit if there is any natural disaster happening in the future? Nowhere, simply because there are and will not be any suitable exit ways. The new buildings are built right by the sidewalks so there is no future widening possible. Build the tall structures where the land is more open and away from central city.

Clement is being one of the bad examples where there was an option to make a 4 lane road leaving a space for a future overpass structure at Spall/Glenmore roads for the quick exit. But all new buildings will be pushed as close to the road as possible. Then as we know highway 97 is becoming worse by the minute with the number of cars we have. In case of emergency, people will panic and everyone living in downtown will be stuck. Maybe the council is counting on people swimming across the lake? ... old and young? If you use your intelligence and logic as expected for city council planners you would not allow such high rise mania in Kelowna.

The argument always is - look at other cities if they can do it so can we. Somehow the people who applaud such development and the councillors do not put any effort to study our city and make valid decisions but just shoot blanks hoping for the best. You have to go with what you have not what you don't and we certainly have no space and no options for extra roads along the tremendously difficult terrain closer to the lake. Westside road would cost billions of dollars to blow the hills for a decently wide road except the blow will damage the houses and mansions along the way so that will be a no go. Clifton to the North and Lakeshore and Gordon to the South are the same story - NOWHERE to go. So we just need to wish a silent good luck to our future generations.

Also, people are never contained in one space regardless how beautiful it might be therefore they will drive outside their downtown area which brings us back to narrow roads as Waterfront, Ellis, Richter, Ethel, Gordon... Bernard, Leons, Lawrence... Which ones the city councillors and the builders have in mind will be the best to exit to Harvey Avenue and the bridge? If regular citizens without an architectural degree can figure this out why is the council bending for any developer? That would be a good question for all future residents and the general population of Kelowna. Just keep slapping the buildings senselessly wherever the "money people" want them.

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Re: Proposed development for the old Woolworth's site

Postby GordonH » Feb 24th, 2018, 11:36 am

Got a question with all of high raise / low raise condos being built or proposed. Here is my question: who is buying them.
2nd question: where is all infrastructure to support the increase population & traffic.
When you have to start compromising yourself and your morals for the people around you, it’s probably time to change the people around you.

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Re: Proposed development for the old Woolworth's site

Postby johnny24 » Feb 24th, 2018, 1:54 pm

LolaB wrote:... and here the story continues with insanely high buildings... We do not have the environment right in downtown for tall structures but city somehow ignores it. Surrounded by the lake, hills, bridge, narrow streets - where do you think people will exit if there is any natural disaster happening in the future? Nowhere, simply because there are and will not be any suitable exit ways. The new buildings are built right by the sidewalks so there is no future widening possible. Build the tall structures where the land is more open and away from central city.


What natural disaster are you expecting in Kelowna that would require a mass exodus? How would the height of the building at this site affect the ability of people to exit the city?

LolaB wrote:
So we just need to wish a silent good luck to our future generations.



That would be nice.
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Re: Proposed development for the old Woolworth's site

Postby normaM » Feb 24th, 2018, 1:55 pm

Not boomer talk at all... who do you think their target group is?
Don't need 3000 sq foot homes, also don't need to fill up every bit of green space with cement.
This isn't New York. Pity wish I could afford NY :)
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Re: Proposed development for the old Woolworth's site

Postby 60-YEARS-in-Ktown » Feb 24th, 2018, 4:24 pm

Tack wrote:
normaM wrote:And now they are proposing to tear down houses S Pandosy ... shoeboxes for all


This is classic boomer talk. A belief that people need 3000sq ft homes with yards just for them to use 1% of the year. Wasteful and unsustainable. Front yards are even worse, no one ever uses their front yard, instead we plant non native species on them and waste water to keep it looking pretty. Those 2 houses look like tiny rotting buildings anyways like most on that area are. I'd rather live in a new building than pay $300/mo to heat a 800sqft mouse infested old home.

The reality is population is constantly increasing and condos and townhomes, from 600-1800sqft are more than enough for many people and families. If you're against these developments move to Cherryville, not much happening there. I'm not saying there should be no consultation or master plan. Our city can do better with their planning. However we need the density, not more 1 million dollar single family homes on the mountain. Also affordable is a relative term, having hundreds of condos on the market allows more buying options. Maybe not affordable to minimum wage earners but lots of families in the Okanagan can qualify for that. There is a distinct lack of selection in that price range right now.

I dont think that increased affordability goes together with 20 stories plus buildings.. you can have one or the other..
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Re: Proposed development for the old Woolworth's site

Postby LANDM » Feb 24th, 2018, 6:44 pm

johnny24 wrote:
LolaB wrote:... and here the story continues with insanely high buildings... We do not have the environment right in downtown for tall structures but city somehow ignores it. Surrounded by the lake, hills, bridge, narrow streets - where do you think people will exit if there is any natural disaster happening in the future? Nowhere, simply because there are and will not be any suitable exit ways. The new buildings are built right by the sidewalks so there is no future widening possible. Build the tall structures where the land is more open and away from central city.


What natural disaster are you expecting in Kelowna that would require a mass exodus? How would the height of the building at this site affect the ability of people to exit the city?


See the Book of Genesis, ch 6-9. Apparently a high concern again for some
..... :135:
LolaB wrote:
So we just need to wish a silent good luck to our future generations.


And god spake unto thee:
“17 I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish. 18 But Only If you allow the building of towers over 29 stories, there shall be no escape from the Okanagan flood.”



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Re: Proposed development for the old Woolworth's site

Postby Tootsie » Feb 24th, 2018, 8:16 pm

To Johnny24......re: your quote
"What natural disaster are you expecting in Kelowna that would require a mass exodus?"

Were you not around here in 2003 for the event that DID have a rather large exodus which resulted in over 200 homes destroyed by lightning caused wildfire?. The Okanagan Mountain Fire. There were very tense moments where firefighters almost lost their lives caught in Bertram Creek Park. Also Gerry Zimmerman, the acting Kelowna firechief at that time, had sleepless nights pondering whether they were going to have to bulldoze multiple homes in the lower Mission area to make a fireguard to prevent the fire from sweeping into the whole city.

So don't think it can't happen here. It almost DID. And talk to the people of Fort McMurray with your question. You will get some fast & furious replies is my bet.

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Re: Proposed development for the old Woolworth's site

Postby WalterWhite » Feb 24th, 2018, 8:50 pm

Tootsie wrote:To Johnny24......re: your quote
"What natural disaster are you expecting in Kelowna that would require a mass exodus?"

Were you not around here in 2003 for the event that DID have a rather large exodus which resulted in over 200 homes destroyed by lightning caused wildfire?. The Okanagan Mountain Fire. There were very tense moments where firefighters almost lost their lives caught in Bertram Creek Park. Also Gerry Zimmerman, the acting Kelowna firechief at that time, had sleepless nights pondering whether they were going to have to bulldoze multiple homes in the lower Mission area to make a fireguard to prevent the fire from sweeping into the whole city.

So don't think it can't happen here. It almost DID. And talk to the people of Fort McMurray with your question. You will get some fast & furious replies is my bet.


There's no denying the firestorm of 2003 and subsequent razing of a large part of Fort McMurray was and is a wake up call to planning with regard to building in interface areas and could have been much worse. However, to relate high rise construction in the downtown core with blocking the valley's ability to deal with such an event is more than just a little misguided fear-mongering imho.
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Re: Proposed development for the old Woolworth's site

Postby 60-YEARS-in-Ktown » Feb 24th, 2018, 9:02 pm

Luckily we did not listen to the this is how it's done in the big cities BS..
And allow areas to be built up, with only one road out.. that caused them a lot of grief, problems, and lives. Like California.
Oh I forgot about Magic Estates, Clifton Rd area, I will just shut up now.
I think downtown is safer, I am curious though if any buildings west of Ellis St listed since the spring flood.

I wonder how strong the glass is on hirises these days. There certainly was a lot of glass raining down when we had the sonic boom in around 1968.
Our airshows will have to change pretty soon I guess..forever.
Last edited by 60-YEARS-in-Ktown on Feb 24th, 2018, 9:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Proposed development for the old Woolworth's site

Postby johnny24 » Feb 24th, 2018, 9:06 pm

Tootsie wrote:To Johnny24......re: your quote
"What natural disaster are you expecting in Kelowna that would require a mass exodus?"

Were you not around here in 2003 for the event that DID have a rather large exodus which resulted in over 200 homes destroyed by lightning caused wildfire?. The Okanagan Mountain Fire. There were very tense moments where firefighters almost lost their lives caught in Bertram Creek Park. Also Gerry Zimmerman, the acting Kelowna firechief at that time, had sleepless nights pondering whether they were going to have to bulldoze multiple homes in the lower Mission area to make a fireguard to prevent the fire from sweeping into the whole city.

So don't think it can't happen here. It almost DID. And talk to the people of Fort McMurray with your question. You will get some fast & furious replies is my bet.


I was around. It was not an issue at all moving people out of the way and the fire did not come close to the downtown core. This is getting way off topic as highrise buildings played no part in this issue at all.
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Re: Proposed development for the old Woolworth's site

Postby Tootsie » Feb 24th, 2018, 9:32 pm

Johnny Johnny Johnny....take some time and Google highrise fires in Dubai. You don't think it will be a major cluster-F**** if something happens in a never before 33 storey highrise fire in Kelowna? With firetrucks trying to get into an area with narrow two lane roads?
Oh I forgot - in our new Utopia highrise world nobody will own cars - they'll all take public transit or cycle or walk to work so there will be no exodus from the downtown core at all. For those 33 stories full of people.

Don't get me wrong. I DO believe the future of Kelowna is building UPWARDS and not outwards. But man oh man - can't they just do it wisely as a previous stated so simply?? Treat the city like a family photo - tall guy Millroy behind shorter guy Stober
in front. Makes for a way nicer picture. Sounds good except tall guy Millroy doesn't want to share the picture !

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