Hedley Kelowna Cancellation?

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Re: Hedley Kelowna Cancellation?

Postby WalterWhite » Mar 6th, 2018, 12:31 pm

jasmineschmidtz wrote:Apparently there is a protest planned according to Buzzfeed? Anyone heard anything about this? :135:

The band's tour ends March 23 in Kelowna, BC. A protest is planned outside the venue. - https://www.buzzfeed.com/ishmaeldaro/hedley-indefinite-hiatus


Ken7 wrote:Some people need more to do with their lives... wow!


Surely you’re not against the Charter permitting a Canadian’s right to lawful assembly, especially regarding a subject as serious as sexual assault?
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Re: Hedley Kelowna Cancellation?

Postby 2castanet » Mar 8th, 2018, 2:09 pm

I guess it's just my age but no one ever went with a band member without knowing the possibilities, they were well known. Hedley is not the only band to have
engaged in these type of activities. At some point we have to take responsibilities for our actions and not blame others. No good crying fowl after. There are many times in my past that I regret my actions, but if I allowed it, then I live with it. As far as I can tell, both parties are to blame. I don't think it's right that only one person gets the blame here.

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Re: Hedley Kelowna Cancellation?

Postby Calculator » Mar 8th, 2018, 2:48 pm

2castanet wrote:I guess it's just my age but no one ever went with a band member without knowing the possibilities, they were well known. Hedley is not the only band to have
engaged in these type of activities. At some point we have to take responsibilities for our actions and not blame others. No good crying fowl after. There are many times in my past that I regret my actions, but if I allowed it, then I live with it. As far as I can tell, both parties are to blame. I don't think it's right that only one person gets the blame here.


Not your typical rock n roll band stuff:

She alleges he slapped her, spat on her and forced her to have anal sex — something she says she had never done before.

She says he didn't wear a condom and that he ignored her when she cried "stop" through tears.

"I was clear that I was not interested in it, and I was so uncomfortable, and I started crying, and he just kept telling me that I was being a good girl and petting my head."

She says Hoggard was grunting loudly and making pig noises. He called her a "dirty little pig," she says.

She says she remembers seeing herself reflected in the mirror over the bed. "He was choking me, and my face went so red."

She says he didn't stop assaulting her even though she was bleeding from her vagina and anus.

At one point, she says, he pulled her off the bed by her legs and dragged her into the bathroom.

She says Hoggard asked several times if he could urinate on her, then asked if she wanted to pee on him. She says he backed off when she kept repeating, "No, that's disgusting."

She alleges that was the only time he asked for consent.

In the five hours she was in the Thompson Hotel, she says, Hoggard raped her several times — vaginally and anally.
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Re: Hedley Kelowna Cancellation?

Postby cv23 » Mar 8th, 2018, 3:06 pm

Calculator wrote:She alleges ,,,,,,,,,,,,,


Key words in this whole issue.
Not that you'd know it sometimes be we supposedly live in a society where people are presumed innocent until PROVEN guilty.

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/loca ... 89741.html

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Re: Hedley Kelowna Cancellation?

Postby Calculator » Mar 8th, 2018, 3:14 pm

cv23 wrote:
Calculator wrote:She alleges ,,,,,,,,,,,,,


Key words in this whole issue.
Not that you'd know it sometimes be we supposedly live in a society where people are presumed innocent until PROVEN guilty.

https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/loca ... 89741.html


Would you want an alleged drunk driver off the road until they are proven not drunk or just let them keep on driving until proven innocent? Perhaps an alleged pedophile can keep teaching our children in schools until proven innocent?

I'm just saying that the market for this bands music is young girls and maybe the message needs to get out to the Kelowna people that maybe it's not a good idea to let this guy up on stage crooning in front of them until his name is cleared or not.
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Re: Hedley Kelowna Cancellation?

Postby JayByrd » Mar 8th, 2018, 3:15 pm

2castanet wrote:I guess it's just my age but no one ever went with a band member without knowing the possibilities, they were well known. Hedley is not the only band to have
engaged in these type of activities. At some point we have to take responsibilities for our actions and not blame others. No good crying fowl after. There are many times in my past that I regret my actions, but if I allowed it, then I live with it. As far as I can tell, both parties are to blame. I don't think it's right that only one person gets the blame here.


This isn't just a case of a band shagging some groupies. That's not illegal or even wrong, assuming all parties consent.

First, there were allegations of band members cozying up to girls as young as 14 at meet & greet sessions. This included offering them alcohol if they would hang out with the band after the show. One person said she knows that such a gathering took place. There have been no direct allegations that the band engaged in sexual activity with underage girls, though it's not a huge stretch to think it may have happened. While the girls may well have engaged in all of this willingly, I would expect an adult not to engage in this behaviour.

Adults seeking to socialize in private with girls that age is reprehensible, even if not necessarily criminal. Supplying alcohol to said girls would be illegal, and any sexual activity, if it indeed happened, would also be illegal. We will keep in mind that no charges in the above have been laid, and the accusers, so far, remain anonymous.

Then there's the woman who has come forward and said, in explicit detail, that Jacob Hoggard raped her.

I'm not coming after Hedley with torches and pitchforks, but this is not a big blowup about nothing.
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Re: Hedley Kelowna Cancellation?

Postby cv23 » Mar 8th, 2018, 3:22 pm

Calculator wrote:Would you want an alleged drunk driver off the road until they are proven not drunk or just let them keep on driving until proven innocent? Perhaps an alleged pedophile can keep teaching our children in schools until proven innocent?

I'm just saying that the market for this bands music is young girls and maybe the message needs to get out to the Kelowna people that maybe it's not a good idea to let this guy up on stage crooning in front of them until his name is cleared or not.


So now singing is some kind of a crime and being directly compared to drunk driving and pedophilia as such?
What should be the punishment for dancing or something as dangerous to children as praying?
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Re: Hedley Kelowna Cancellation?

Postby Poindexter » Mar 8th, 2018, 3:36 pm

I'm just glad they didn't name the band Kelowna. :smt045
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Re: Hedley Kelowna Cancellation?

Postby Calculator » Mar 8th, 2018, 3:45 pm

cv23 wrote:
Calculator wrote:Would you want an alleged drunk driver off the road until they are proven not drunk or just let them keep on driving until proven innocent? Perhaps an alleged pedophile can keep teaching our children in schools until proven innocent?

I'm just saying that the market for this bands music is young girls and maybe the message needs to get out to the Kelowna people that maybe it's not a good idea to let this guy up on stage crooning in front of them until his name is cleared or not.


So now singing is some kind of a crime and being directly compared to drunk driving and pedophilia as such?
What should be the punishment for dancing or something as dangerous to children as praying?


OMG... LOL... don't get me started :biggrin:

I was going to actually bring religion into it but thought I'd just be opening up a whole can of worms as that's another topic in itself... jeez... The dude is not controversial for singing bro and I doubt there's going to be any altar boys on the stage.

I was trying to draw a comparison and that it may be better to err on the side of caution after multiple allegations from young girls and women. There is a time lapse between alleged and either guilty and innocent. For some things it's highly important to sway towards the guilty until proven innocent. I think rape and plying underage girls with alcohol constitutes the moment where you have to think if this is a good idea or not.

I'm sure Prospera and the promoters will not pay out the fine for breach of contract and the show will go on and you can have your opportunity to buy the meet and greet tix and take your daughter. Your choice.

I hear Cosby's going on tour again... no proven guilt there either... you should go. His allegations were not enough for Prospera to profit and I doubt Jacob Hoggards will be either. Sex sells.
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Re: Hedley Kelowna Cancellation?

Postby JayByrd » Mar 8th, 2018, 4:14 pm

Calculator wrote:I was trying to draw a comparison and that it may be better to err on the side of caution after multiple allegations from young girls and women. There is a time lapse between alleged and either guilty and innocent. For some things it's highly important to sway towards the guilty until proven innocent. I think rape and plying underage girls with alcohol constitutes the moment where you have to think if this is a good idea or not.

I'm sure Prospera and the promoters will not pay out the fine for breach of contract and the show will go on and you can have your opportunity to buy the meet and greet tix and take your daughter. Your choice.

I hear Cosby's going on tour again... no proven guilt there either... you should go. His allegations were not enough for Prospera to profit and I doubt Jacob Hoggards will be either. Sex sells.


Whoa. You went from "it may be better to err on the side of caution", to suggesting that other posters would willingly put their children in the room with a predator, just because they don't feel as strongly as you do. It took you three paragraphs to make that leap. Mr. Hoggard may be a perv with a thing for high school girls, but I don't think the citizenry of Kelowna is less safe because of his presence here. Why don't you wait to see how many people actually attend this show before you assume you're the only one who cares?

Prospera would not be fined for cancelling the show, but they would have to refund all tickets sold, and they would still have to pay the band.

And for the life of me, I can't find any reference to a Bill Cosby show here after the allegations against him hit. He played SOEC in 2009, and a show at Prospera in 2010 was cancelled due to poor ticket sales. The date rape stuff started hitting the news in 2015. I know he played Kelowna sometime back in the day but I'm certain it was before 2015.
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Re: Hedley Kelowna Cancellation?

Postby WalterWhite » Mar 8th, 2018, 4:24 pm

Calculator wrote:OMG... LOL... don't get me started :biggrin:

I was going to actually bring religion into it but thought I'd just be opening up a whole can of worms as that's another topic in itself... jeez... The dude is not controversial for singing bro and I doubt there's going to be any altar boys on the stage.

I was trying to draw a comparison and that it may be better to err on the side of caution after multiple allegations from young girls and women. There is a time lapse between alleged and either guilty and innocent. For some things it's highly important to sway towards the guilty until proven innocent. I think rape and plying underage girls with alcohol constitutes the moment where you have to think if this is a good idea or not.

I'm sure Prospera and the promoters will not pay out the fine for breach of contract and the show will go on and you can have your opportunity to buy the meet and greet tix and take your daughter. Your choice.

I hear Cosby's going on tour again... no proven guilt there either... you should go. His allegations were not enough for Prospera to profit and I doubt Jacob Hoggards will be either. Sex sells.


Thanks for pointing that important part (emboldened and underlined) out.
The fact remains, nothing has been proven, no matter how much information has been put forward to this point, they are still simply allegations. Until then, no one should impose their personal feelings towards the issue on another's right to make their own decision regarding supporting the band by taking in a concert that contracts have been signed for and tickets sold.

Sure, some will choose not to attend - that's their right - just as attending is for others.

For the record, I too think the information put forward to this point does not paint a pretty picture of Hoggard. Yes, groupies have been around since the dawn of music, and the "rock'n'roll lifestyle" has been the world's worst secret for decades. There is however, a big difference between consensual sex between two adults - and forcing someone to partake in sexual activities against their will, no matter if consensual sex is/was occurring prior.
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Re: Hedley Kelowna Cancellation?

Postby cv23 » Mar 8th, 2018, 5:12 pm

Calculator wrote:OMG... LOL... don't get me started :biggrin:

Oh by all means lets start.
So lets get this straight. If you were accused of something (righfully or wrongly) you should instantly be barred from earning a living before any investigation is complete, charges laid or a trial held?
You would have no problem with your name being dragged through the press for all your friends, family, neighbours and employer to see before any investigation is complete, charges laid or a trial held?

To review, all we have so far are some accusations made by, the term that has been previously used as "groupies" or infatuated fans. There has been no investigation completed (or maybe even started) , no charges laid nor a trial even scheduled but some here believe the "accused" should have his ability to earn a living taken away and his other rights totally violated. So much for the idea of a society where all are considered "innocent until proven guilty."

If someone is offended by the accusations made then they have the right to not listen to the music, the right not to buy the music, the right not to go to the shows and the right to keep their kids away from the accused, but that list does not include denying someone else the same rights they expect themselves. We head down a very slippery slope when we take away a persons rights simply on unsubstantiated accusations.

Is the band guilty? I don't know and just as I would any accused person I will give them the chance to defend themselves in a court should the professionals investigating the matter determine there be charges and a trial.
Will I be attending attending the concert? No, but again that is my right to make the choice.

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Re: Hedley Kelowna Cancellation?

Postby 2castanet » Mar 9th, 2018, 12:00 am

Just to reiterate in other words, we've ALL done things we are ashamed of but there comes a point when we must take responsibilities for our actions. If the 14 year old went with the band member, she did that willingly. If she drank alcohol, she did that willingly. Yes, there was probably 'the thrill factor", I mean who wouldn't be thrilled to have special attention from a 'pop star'. If she didn't know what might happen, she should have had some parental guidance before going to the concert. If she did suspect something might happen, then, one of life's lessons learned the hard way. Let's not pussyfoot around. Sometimes life sucks and it's no use putting all the blame on 'the other person'. I might sympathize with the girls/women but I don't condone what they did and I certainly don't condone using social media rather than the justice system to air the allegations.

We're not talking about drunk drivers here unless it's the asking the drunk driver to take the blame. If WE get into a car with the drunk driver, that's a choice we make, just like going with a band member. Please don't tell me that a 14 year old can't make choices. They make not always make the right choices but...
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Re: Hedley Kelowna Cancellation?

Postby GordonH » Mar 9th, 2018, 12:14 am

2castanet wrote:Just to reiterate in other words, we've ALL done things we are ashamed of but there comes a point when we must take responsibilities for our actions. If the 14 year old went with the band member, she did that willingly. If she drank alcohol, she did that willingly. Yes, there was probably 'the thrill factor", I mean who wouldn't be thrilled to have special attention from a 'pop star'. If she didn't know what might happen, she should have had some parental guidance before going to the concert. If she did suspect something might happen, then, one of life's lessons learned the hard way. Let's not pussyfoot around. Sometimes life sucks and it's no use putting all the blame on 'the other person'. I might sympathize with the girls/women but I don't condone what they did and I certainly don't condone using social media rather than the justice system to air the allegations.

We're not talking about drunk drivers here unless it's the asking the drunk driver to take the blame. If WE get into a car with the drunk driver, that's a choice we make, just like going with a band member. Please don't tell me that a 14 year old can't make choices. They make not always make the right choices but...


None of what you said matters, reason being 14 is underage in Canada.
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Re: Hedley Kelowna Cancellation?

Postby Catri » Mar 9th, 2018, 3:14 am

2castanet wrote:Just to reiterate in other words, we've ALL done things we are ashamed of but there comes a point when we must take responsibilities for our actions. If the 14 year old went with the band member, she did that willingly. If she drank alcohol, she did that willingly. Yes, there was probably 'the thrill factor", I mean who wouldn't be thrilled to have special attention from a 'pop star'. If she didn't know what might happen, she should have had some parental guidance before going to the concert. If she did suspect something might happen, then, one of life's lessons learned the hard way. Let's not pussyfoot around. Sometimes life sucks and it's no use putting all the blame on 'the other person'. I might sympathize with the girls/women but I don't condone what they did and I certainly don't condone using social media rather than the justice system to air the allegations.

We're not talking about drunk drivers here unless it's the asking the drunk driver to take the blame. If WE get into a car with the drunk driver, that's a choice we make, just like going with a band member. Please don't tell me that a 14 year old can't make choices. They make not always make the right choices but...

When one person is a 14 year old, the blame...all of it...goes on the adult.

When an adult woman consents to sex, it does not mean that she has abdicated any right to decide what she will or won't do. If she says no to anal sex or any other particular act, she is right to expect not to be raped...even if the rapist is in the band. Rape is not a life lesson.

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