"Outsiders need not apply"

[Snowbound]

Oh and another thing of note, how the heck did the NDP decide on where this tax applies, by throwing the names of a few communities into a hat and conducting a random draw?

Like how does it make sense to include Kelowna, West Kelowna, but not Lake Country which is the fastest growing community in BC? There are all kinds of homes in Lake Country, that function as summer homes for someone living elsewhere.

Just wait until they expand the tax into other areas! Whistler, Kootenays, Shuswap, Predator Ridge, South Okanagan......easy money for the NDP. You all know it's coming.

Kiss all those jobs goodbye that are created and supported by the housing industry. Landscapers, yard care, maintenance jobs, tourism, restaurants, etc are all employed by non-resident owners.

[W105]

so how many out of province owners in this thread (that have empty vaca homes here) had any empathy for the "Canadians" in Vancouver who had the 1% (assessed value) empty house tax imposed on them last yr ???

gotta a feeling some really didn't care because of self interest (even though we're all Canadians) and I have a feeling some were quite happy because those who didn't want to pay the tax nor rent out the home sold, and moved here...thus increasing demand and supply..(which also shifted their huge housing/rental crisis upon us) which increased their property values here...

and I hope everyone understands that keeping the locals and the local business owners (needing employees) here hurting with housing and rental prices will only increase the cost of every service in this town...(which might not matter if you only visit here a few times a yr, but it matters to those of us who live here full time yr round )

we no longer have housing diversity in this town anymore and we need it badly to thrive...

and sorry but that's pure BS Snowbound..our entire economy will not die because of this tax

[Jack DeBear]

I’ll add an anecdote to my ‘Insiders’ post about the ‘BC residents’ speculation tax, above.

A doctor from Vancouver owned the Kelowna condo above the one I rented full-time for work from my Alberta buddy.

She rarely stayed there. But now and then in the summer her kids would come over the Cokey, arrive late at night, and start the party. The bong on the deck with cans and puke flying over the rail all weekend. And the first time I challenged them they simply replied, “’S’up dude? We own the place. So stay frosty.”

Usually I would--I would vacate with my ‘frosties’ and my tent and go camping in a 'patrolled' campground. I never had a similar experience in any one of them.

Then, one time I overheard a conversation on the deck between the Doc and her cleaner. The owner ordered the cleaner to hose off the mess. The cleaner asked, “But what about the people below?” The Doc said, “Well who’s gonna complain? If it happens, I won’t be around here to hear it.”

LOL I figured the hose thing probably wouldn’t happen because there were no threaded taps to make a connection in the units. And I may have been right, because afterwards no cleaning slop landed anywhere on my place.

Also, I figured there’d be no use in complaining about any of these things beyond the first time. The Doc could probably afford to pay the Strata fines, and now I figure she can do much the same with the speculation tax if Horgon doesn't back down and she gets nailed with it.

The parties continued above me until I finished my contract a moved home to Alberta.

So I hope all you Docs can continue to rock on in your 'fornie' Kelowna properties.

'Cause what would be the fun in having a ‘spec’ 'love shack' there if you couldn’t?

You had one bad neighbour, who happened to be an out-of-towner, and you use that to justify your prejudice and biased opinions? Sad.

Nah, I have many more experiences that I could write about here to justify my bias (prompt . . . ) and they're not pre-judicial opinions they're post-judicial facts.

[adionline]

There is no shortage of potential vacation spots in the States or Mexico. It takes less than 3 hours by plane to be in California, Arizona or Nevada.

US dollar value really kills that idea quickly.

Can't drive to Mexico for the Canada Day long weekend with a 5th wheel.

Kelowna is king of vacation spots in Canada and people against this tax are trying to create a fear that Kelowna will have to beg people to visit here during the summer months.

You do realise most things are cheaper in the States, right? (even with the dollar value) Properties in those states (with the exception of a few areas) can be purchased at much lower prices which offsets the US dollar value. It certainly wouldn't stop me from buying property down there. Not to mention, access to sun all year round. Kelowna doesn't even make the top 10 for tourism and is certainly not the king for vacation spots. It's a desirable location but irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

[adionline]

Nah, I have many more experiences I could write about here to justify my bias (prompt . . . ) and they're not pre-judicial opinions they're post-judicial facts.

LOL. Ok, I'll make sure to write these "facts" down and add them to wikipedia at my earliest convenience. Thanks for the laugh.

[sublime]

You know what keeps a younger demographic around? Job prospects. Do you know where job prospects come from? Businesses. If you want businesses to thrive here then you're not going to get that from taxing Albertans and putting further strain on small business by incentivizing lower payrolls. You really think this will help in the long run? Use the critical thinking part of your brain and you'll have your answer.

It's one thing to say that having part time residence (any Canadian because people think its a big conspiracy against Albertans) helps the economy and contributes to job creation for a younger demographic. Show me the numbers. Are we talking full time jobs? Or low paying seasonal work? How in comparison does say a full time member of the community as compared to a part time member contribute to job creation and the economy. Let's talk facts and numbers instead of loose insults like "use your brain" and sensationalism.

[Vacancyrate]

You do realise most things are cheaper in the States, right? (even with the dollar value) Properties in those states (with the exception of a few areas) can be purchased at much lower prices which offsets the US dollar value. It certainly wouldn't stop me from buying property down there. Not to mention, access to sun all year round. Kelowna doesn't even make the top 10 for tourism and is certainly not the king for vacation spots. It's a desirable location but irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

I hope everyone is paying attention to this line of debate.

This poster is taking the position that Kelowna isn't that great of a tourist destination, as a point to use against the implementation of this tax. This is oddly the same underlying tone of fear-mongering that we are hearing from City Council and some politicians and business "leaders".

That is very interesting fact consdering the high opinion they have of our city. With one side of their mouths they brag that we are considered to be one of the top 10 tourist destinations in Canada by Canada's biggest and most trusted travel website (www.tourismkelowna.com/blog/post/kelown ... ripadvisor) and the other side of the mouth they are saying we're not all that great and have to offer people discounts to come here.

It's been a yearly occurrence for the last decade that Castanet will run a few news stories every summer about working class people, ususally with kids, living in campsites or RV parks because of low vacancy rates and insane rent costs. However I've counted 5 consecutive letters to the editor that are against this tax but yet not a single news story, opinion piece, letter or interview has been published with a working class person POV that is faced with 0% vacancy rate a average 47k/year wage and a 700K average house price. I've pointed out how the only afforable areas of town have been advertised by the Real Estate industry on this website as investment opportunities. If you pit working class wages against the unlimited resources and availability of cheap debt of investors and let them bid on the only afforable homes left in Kelowna, investors are going to win everytime.

There are financial interests at stake and those interests do not line up with the majority of the communities needs. Infact those interests are the root of many of the social issues facing our community, especially around housing. Tourists and vacation property owners don't teach our children, they don't heal our sick, they don't sweep the streets and they don't bake the bread. They are part of our communities economy for a few months but that is where it ends.

We need a community and not a fruit stand that shuts down for 8 months a year.

[Snowbound]

so how many out of province owners in this thread (that have empty vaca homes here) had any empathy for the "Canadians" in Vancouver who had the 1% (assessed value) empty house tax imposed on them last yr ???

gotta a feeling some really didn't care because of self interest (even though we're all Canadians) and I have a feeling some were quite happy because those who didn't want to pay the tax nor rent out the home sold, and moved here...thus increasing demand and supply..(which also shifted their huge housing/rental crisis upon us) which increased their property values here...

and I hope everyone understands that keeping the locals and the local business owners (needing employees) here hurting with housing and rental prices will only increase the cost of every service in this town...(which might not matter if you only visit here a few times a yr, but it matters to those of us who live here full time yr round )

we no longer have housing diversity in this town anymore and we need it badly to thrive...

and sorry but that's pure BS Snowbound..our entire economy will not die because of this tax

I didn't say the entire economy will die, but nice way of twisting my words. I personally know many people who make a good living caretaking homes for absentee owners. Sell the condo and a local buys it, those caretakers are no longer required.

There are better ways to solve housing issues, then to tax the "rich". How about encouraging more carriage home development to add units into the market? I looked into it for my own home and there is so much red tape and BS, that it was not worth the hassle.

I have young adult kids that are affected too. I'm local and pay BC income tax, but I see value in job creation, not further damaging the economy (on whatever scale). Our governments at ALL levels and affiliations have made investment in Canada less attractive in all industries.

[alanjh595]

So....IF another Canadian wants to buy their future retirement home here in Kelowna, but is not quite ready to retire yet and just wants to lock-in when the price is right, and are willing to spend a couple of months per year vacationing here until the time is right.......
Why should they be penalized for making long-range plans for their retirement?
They still have to pay;
Canadian income taxes.
Property taxes in Kelowna.
Property taxes from wherever they currently live.
Sales taxes on everything they buy.
Insurance on 2 residences.
Electricity and heat for 2 homes.

How much would they have to charge for rent on their second home, here in Kelowna? AND still be able to use their home for the period of time /year that they bought it for. Let's see?
If a mouldy mobile is renting for $1200 /mth. How much to rent out a $1,000,000 house + utilities /mth. with an 8 month lease? $7,000 / month? Seems fair market value. After all, the property taxes, BC income taxes, insurance still apply. What renter could afford to pay that? $56,000 for 8 months plus all of the utilities reconnection charges and moving costs.
Okay, maybe $7,000 /month is too high? What is fair market value on a $1,000,000 house? $4,000/month? That's $32,000 for 8 months use. If a renter has $4,000/month to blow on rent, then he/she is has either got more $$$$$ than brains, or is doing something illegal and not paying provincial income tax either.

[khutchi]

This BS is just one reason I have now turned away from the NDP and am now focusing on supporting the BC Conservatives.

Switching to BC Conservatives eh? Well here's hoping you can get a Proportional Representation in November so you actually will have a BC conservative candidate to vote for ....

[Jack DeBear]

Nah, I have many more experiences that I could write about here to justify my bias (prompt . . . ) and they're not pre-judicial opinions they're post-judicial facts.

LOL. Ok, I'll make sure to write these "facts" down and add them to wikipedia at my earliest convenience. Thanks for the laugh.

No need to write 'em down, just do a cut and paste of my facts to Wikipedia and reference the direct link back to the post.

For example, earlier I posted some of my facts over on the, "Foreign buyers tax in the Okanagan," thread.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=77291&start=90#p2319180

So just follow my instructions, and good on ya.

Seriously, I think anyone who finds facts for Wikipedia and posts them there is a boon to society.

[Catri]

So, what I've gleaned from this thread and the other virtually indistinguishable thread (not sure why they haven't been merged) is that Albertans do or don't own exclusively high priced real estate that normal Kelownians wouldn't be able to afford anyway and that if this tax stays in place they will or won't sell, but they might...or might not...because UNFAIR conspiracy to target Albertans or slippery slope to new taxes for everyone, everywhere because NDP! Oh yeah, and vacant housing units are the sign of a healthy economy since some people make money waiting on the tourists savvy investors.

I say let the tax come in and watch what actually happens instead of running around like the sky is falling. They can always roll it back if the negative consequences outweigh the positive.

[Jack DeBear]

You do realise most things are cheaper in the States, right? (even with the dollar value) Properties in those states (with the exception of a few areas) can be purchased at much lower prices which offsets the US dollar value. It certainly wouldn't stop me from buying property down there. Not to mention, access to sun all year round. Kelowna doesn't even make the top 10 for tourism and is certainly not the king for vacation spots. It's a desirable location but irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

I agree about Kelowna as a vacation spot, but now go ahead and put yourself at the mercy of a foreign government along with a foreign economy . . ..

Isn't it turning out to be risky enough in Canada at this Provincial level?

[Urban Cowboy]

I say let the tax come in and watch what actually happens instead of running around like the sky is falling. They can always roll it back if the negative consequences outweigh the positive.

Thanks for the chuckle.

I can't decide what's more amusing, that you can't see how this tax is guaranteed to negatively impact our economy, or that you actually believe the NDP would roll back a tax once they taste that money.

[oscillate_wildly]

I get youre one of those that obviously despises the "red plates" but i personally think its a sad world when we start not wanting fellow canadians in our own provinces. May as well put up actual borders at the borders...may as well become all separate countries...... kind of pathetic actually.

I'd love to get taxed for a BC/Alberta border with checkpoints. Fantastic idea!

Anything to reduce the risk of forest fires, additional vehicular accidents, or 20-something's puking in yards during July/Aug. long weekend.