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Let's heat the KVR trail for all-season riding

South Okanagan topics including Summerland, Naramata, Penticton, Okanagan Falls, Oliver, Osoyoos, and Keremeos.

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Let's heat the KVR trail for all-season riding

Postby southy » Nov 14th, 2012, 8:27 pm

Think of the possibilities? North America's only "All Season Biking Trail". If someone's got the money ... here's the technology.

http://springwise.cmail1.com/t/y-l-jiddkjl-anqjjd-q/
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all season riding

Postby hoot » Nov 15th, 2012, 11:01 am

Here’s some points to remember: Holland is very very flat and is therefore conducive to the use of bicycles as a major means of transportation . In Amsterdam for example you can't turn around without tripping over bikes parked everywhere, hundreds of 'em
In fact, there are racks where bikes are provided for casual users , the only requirement is to return the bike to another of the designated racks throughout the city. Even bike parking is free and bike rental companies are common.

The article you refer to talks about bike lanes, which unlike Penticton, are used by hundreds of bikes every day , even during winter. So a means of heating them and keeping the snow off would be cost effective...I guess. Incidentally I have visited Holland often , and I can tell you Utrecht is a university town , with hundreds of students using bikes as a cheap form of transportation .

In Penticton , tens of thousands of dollars are spent on silly bike lanes which , if you ever take a drive down government are hardly ever used , and in the Winter lie unused as a testament to the folly of spending money on such schemes.

As for the KVR same thing applies, users of the KVR are in the minority and I cannot see ,(a) the local taxpayers stumping up 30K a kilometer for some fools to ride their bikes in comfort. and ( b) I cannot see any of said fools clamoring to have the KVR trail paved over to accommodate the heating pipes.
Can you imagine the whining from some posters if some poor soul from the West bench happened to be caught biking the KVR, and not paying their fair share, of the heating bill………let's not go there !
Wonder what the toll would be to use these heated stretches :nutzoid:
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all season riding

Postby AllthatFunk » Nov 15th, 2012, 11:30 am

hoot wrote:Here’s some points to remember: Holland is very very flat and is thedon't re conducive to the use of bicycles as a major means of transportation . In Amsterdam for example you can't turn around without tripping over bikes environmentallyerywhere, hundreds of 'em
In fact, there are racks where bikes are provided for casual users , the only requirement is to return the bike to another of the designated racks throughout the city. Even bike parking is free and bike rental companies are common.

The article you refer to talks about bike lanes, which unlike Penticton, are used by hundreds of bikes every day , even during winter. So a means of heating them and keeping the snow off would be cost effective...I guess. Incidentally I have visited Holland often , and I can tell you Utrecht is a university town , with hundreds of students using bikes as a cheap form of transportation .

In Penticton , tens of thousands of dollars are spent on silly bike lanes which , if you ever take a drive down government are hardly ever used , and in the Winter lie unused as a testament to the folly of spending money on such schemes.

As for the KVR same thing applies, users of the KVR are in the minority and I cannot see ,(a) the local taxpayers stumping up 30K a kilometer for some fools to ride their bikes in comfort. and ( b) I cannot see any of said fools clamoring to have the KVR trail paved over to accommodate the heating pipes.
Can you imagine the whining from some posters if some poor soul from the West bench happened to be caught biking the KVR, and not paying their fair share, of the heating bill………let's not go there !
Wonder what the toll would be to use these heated stretches :nutzoid:



More than likely we "fools" are too busy skiing to worry about cycling the KVR during the snowy months and have more common sense than to throw money out the window on heating something like that. After all we "fools" tend to use a more environmentally friendly method of enjoying our free time.

With an attitude like yours, if you're a West Bencher, then we "fools" definitely don't want people like you on this side of the bridge.
I'd rather live with regrets than regret not living.
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all season riding

Postby southy » Nov 15th, 2012, 4:54 pm

Oh come on Hoot ... you know that Naramata has hundreds of motorized bikes, ATV's and other vehicles that just love cruising the KVR. As a matter of fact they've recently created their own club .. I say good on them!! Check it out:

http://www.mynaramata.com/show3625a/Gro ... Trail_Plan
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all season riding

Postby hoot » Nov 15th, 2012, 5:21 pm

you know that Naramata has hundreds of motorized bikes, ATV's and other vehicles that just love cruising the KVR.


Nice, just what the trail needs is morons on motorbikes, I’m with the cyclists on this one.

If they want to ride their 4 by whatever’s, why don’t they get a license , and insurance and drive down the darn highway like other normal people.

But no, they want to roar through pristine countryside on vehicles , spewing all types of noxious crap , vehicles I should add that wouldn’t pass a highway test for environmental safety , never mind noise pollution!!

It’s bad enough to see papa redneck and their offspring, 4 year old little idiot chewing up the trail , scaring the hell out of wildlife and horse riders , and just being a real pain in the backside for non-polluting users of the trail including , surprise surprise the hikers .

Goodness knows how many fires their overheated exhausts have caused. They should be banned ,or at least confined to a race track where they can go round and round in circles, hell they would think the scenery was changing after each circuit.

Nope hiking trails and motorised vehicles do not mix.
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all season riding

Postby southy » Nov 15th, 2012, 6:43 pm

Hoot ... don't think the KVR was ever a hiking trail. Seems to me great big metal machines called trains ran on this trail not that long ago. Personally, I haven't been out to Naramata and up to the KVR for some time, but friends out that way tell me the issue isn't as bad as most people would like to make it. Just like anything there are those who abuse it and those who respect it. I would like to think that the percentage is far greater with those who respect it. The real complaint I heard was someone didn't like horses using the trail as they leave behind objects that some find offensive. Oh well, no worse than those folks walking on the trail with their dogs I suppose. Can't please everyone. Hoot remind me never to get you really really really upset :dyinglaughing:
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all season riding

Postby XT225 » Nov 15th, 2012, 8:32 pm

I would normally agree with Hoot but not on this subject. The KVR is very important to me. I spend a lot of time on it every year, both on bicycles and motorized vehicles. I believe there is room for both. I can say with complete sincerity that a quad tire leaves a very small footprint; often times less than a human footprint. I have tried to follow quads and often lose the track. Sure some owners of quads or motorcycles can tear up the railbed but most of them are responsible riders. I wont get into criticizing bicycles in general but in all honesty I see almost as many motorized vehicles on the KVR than I do cyclists. Bicycle tires (especially thinner ones) tend to chew up the gravel bed and following a bike track is easy to do. Same goes for horses (plus they leave a little extra behind). Im not against any of them; I feel they ALL have rights and deserve a place on the KVR. I recently ran into a little old man up near the KVR little tunnel, driving a car. He flagged me down and sheepishly asked if it was ok to drive up there. He was elated to find out it IS allowed, as he worked on the railway many years ago and could never walk it. Its not fair to punish EVERYone who drives a motorized vehicle up there; I would like to see licenses for any off-road machine; that would likely help to curbe any abuses that take place up there. Re heating the KVR? Hmmmm.....I wonder if the city might consider building a pipeline from City Hall...there's enough hot air in council chambers to keep the KVR frost free all Winter! :dyinglaughing:
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all-season riding

Postby totoramona » Nov 16th, 2012, 12:39 pm

I also believe the KVR trail should be open to both motorized and non-motorized transport. Trails like the KVR and Trans-Canada Trail are most often used as a route to get to where we are really headed, not as the place of use itself.

The average dirtbike or ATV uses a comparable amount of fuel as a lawn mower. Less, if you are riding a four stroke machine.
http://www.epa.gov/nonroad/proposal/f01030.htm
http://www.peoplepoweredmachines.com/faq-environment.htm
It's all relative!

I am offended by hoot's characterization of all dirtbikers and ATV'ers as "papa redneck and offspring". Our family uses both quads and dirtbikes. Our family spends a lot of time in the forest and treasures the experiences. Our family camps, hunts, fishes, hikes, cycles and dirbikes in the great outdoors. Often families like ours are the eyes and ears of the forest, and therefore, the ambassadors and advocates for it. We take the time to explore and enjoy nature and there are a lot of different ways to do that.

If hikers can not endure the rare and brief occurrence of a couple of dirtbikes or quads passing by on the KVR trail, then perhaps they should take the time to drive a little further out into the pristine countryside they so cherish. After all, we are in Canada, and there is certainly enough wilderness to accommodate us all.
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all-season riding

Postby southy » Nov 16th, 2012, 4:38 pm

totoramona ... well said and I agree with you 110%!!
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all-season riding

Postby hoot » Nov 16th, 2012, 5:48 pm

"
The average dirtbike or ATV uses a comparable amount of fuel as a lawn mower'

Really?
the average ATV has a 400-500 CC engine, generating 40-70 Hp , the average lawn mower has a 140-190 cc engine generating 6.5Hp. how on earth can you say the two consume the same amount of fuel ?.The lawn mower is used normally once a week for an hour , the ATv anywhere from 2-8 hours on a weekend. Your comparison is ludicrous.
Your claim is as stupid as one poster saying that Horses are a form of pollution comparable to an ATV. You are both overreaching.

Nice link by the way here’s a quote from the website :
“On an individual basis, these vehicles can have very high emission rates. This is illustrated in the figure below, which shows that a two-stroke ATV or motorcycle can emit as much pollution in one hour as over 30 automobiles operating for one hour. “


So answer ,this based on the website you have given why should none motorized modes of transportation , ( people, bikers , and horse riders) be subjected to the amount of pollutants spewing from the exhausts of ATVs?.
And how is all this pollution you are emitting to get your kicks, good for the environment?
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all-season riding

Postby rush » Nov 18th, 2012, 11:39 am

You guys in Penticton are unbelievable.You think you live in Palm Springs.You keep your golf course open year round,now this??
Signed- jealous Vernonite. :ohmygod:
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all-season riding

Postby ToddT » Nov 19th, 2012, 10:09 am

Bahaha who would have thought "Hoot" would be a hippie?!
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all-season riding

Postby GoStumpy » Nov 19th, 2012, 10:18 am

hoot wrote:
So answer ,this based on the website you have given why should none motorized modes of transportation , ( people, bikers , and horse riders) be subjected to the amount of pollutants spewing from the exhausts of ATVs?.
And how is all this pollution you are emitting to get your kicks, good for the environment?


Bwahahahaha, you can't be serious??? Condemning motorcycles & ATV's due to ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT?

Bet you'd turn down any opportunity to ride an ATV due to the exhaust emissions, right? :127: :127:
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all-season riding

Postby hoot » Nov 19th, 2012, 12:24 pm

Bahaha who would have thought "Hoot" would be a hippie?!
Bwahahahaha, you can't be serious???


Expected responses from the dopes that drive ATVs. Not surprising.

I was merely responding to an ATV fanatic who made the ludicrous claim that, and I quote:

The average dirt bike or ATV uses a comparable amount of fuel as a lawn mower.


Which, by any stretch of the imagination, is total and utter horse doo doo.

Now instead of attacking me, why not respond to the facts I have posted, and defend your “hobby”. Or perhaps ,as I suspect it is indefensible?
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all-season riding

Postby GoStumpy » Nov 19th, 2012, 12:39 pm

hoot wrote:
Bahaha who would have thought "Hoot" would be a hippie?!
Bwahahahaha, you can't be serious???


Expected responses from the dopes that drive ATVs. Not surprising.



Never ridden an ATV, thank you very much.
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