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Bill C-45

South Okanagan topics including Summerland, Naramata, Penticton, Okanagan Falls, Oliver, Osoyoos, and Keremeos.

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Re: Bill C-45

Postby glassmaster » Jan 28th, 2013, 6:17 pm

There is no question that the native people of yesterday have been brutalized. It was awful, horrible, unjustified and truly sickening. With that said, those days are behind us and it makes no sense to have the current population pay for those those things. Isn't it time to write a new future that puts all Canadians on an equal playing field? The healing can't come from a Government program ... equality is the only thing that will right the wrongs. I hope I live long enough to see First Nations people no longer living on reservations (unless it is under their own steam and terms) ... and the 'Indian Act' a chapter in history books.

The preservation of your culture is up to you. Canada is a multi-cultural country ... Irish, Ukranian and Polish societies all thrive. Your opinion on things matter ... but, no more than the opinion of every other Canadian. It is time that all Canadians live under the same laws.
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Re: Bill C-45

Postby Dawnland » Jan 28th, 2013, 8:52 pm

glassmaster wrote:Isn't it time to write a new future that puts all Canadians on an equal playing field?

As an individual replying to this comment and not on behalf of any specific community or nation, I would agree whole-heartedly with you. I would like the true history of our Indigenous struggles be taught in school as well as the overwhelming reform called Idle No More that hopefully led to the peaceful restructuring of Canadian society. I think I would feel more empowered to have moved from a ward/trustee arrangement to mutual Government reciprocation and however that can happen. Can you be part of the solution when people make unnecessary comments meant to degrade your fellow Canadians? There is a social responsibility the public at large has to endorse and uphold.
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Re: Bill C-45

Postby glassmaster » Jan 28th, 2013, 10:08 pm

[/quote] Dawnland.
As an individual replying to this comment and not on behalf of any specific community or nation, I would agree whole-heartedly with you. I would like the true history of our Indigenous struggles be taught in school as well as the overwhelming reform called Idle No More that hopefully led to the peaceful restructuring of Canadian society. I think I would feel more empowered to have moved from a ward/trustee arrangement to mutual Government reciprocation and however that can happen. Can you be part of the solution when people make unnecessary comments meant to degrade your fellow Canadians? There is a social responsibility the public at large has to endorse and uphold.[/quote]

Yes, you (we) can be part of the solution. There will always be people that make unnecessary comments to degrade someone else. The accusations and racism are on both sides of the fence though ... it is not a one sided problem. Doesn't mean that there isn't a solution. I agree with you that the history of indigenous struggles should be taught in schools ... it is an dark part of Canadian history, but it is important that it is known. With that being said, it is history ... and once documented, does not have to be used as a weapon for the future. The whole ward/trustee arrangement has clearly not worked. Rather than trying to demand that the Government have more consultation with First Nations ... the focus should be on becoming independant. That is the only way out of this mess. It would be truly inspiring to see First Nations take that lead for themselves. Unfortunately, I don't see the Idle No More movement headed in that direction ... but, you never know how things will evolve in the weeks to come.
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Re: Bill C-45

Postby fluffy » Jan 29th, 2013, 6:22 am

The government (read as 'white man') solution to the "Indian Problem" has always been to throw money at it, and that has done nothing but create a welfare state. We need look no farther than the Osoyoos Indian Band to see one course available to bring First Nations people out of the past with their heritage intact. Opportunities like the Channel Crossing Shopping Centre and the Arrowleaf Resort Community can bring that prosperity to the PIB as well, as long as a clear focus on the goals is maintained. There's a lot of money involved and that can do funny things to people.
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Re: Bill C-45

Postby Rwede » Jan 29th, 2013, 9:01 am

Dawnland wrote:Rwede; Cultural Genocide is what the Canadian Government is currently under investigation for by the United Nations. These words are used by the United Nations as well as Indigenous groups around the world who have suffered these actions. Mass graves containing the bodies of hundreds of Aboriginal children have been uncovered, genital mutilations and experimentation along with the "kill the Indian in the child" program are all foundational elements of this cultural genocide. As a person who goes to work five days a week and is a functioning member of society, I can firmly state that this is not 'sensational' in any way and my life has always been moving forward. Once again, your spoon-fed conservative arguments are weak and show you do not investigate what you are told, only regurgitate.




Baloney. Just because a native group has cried to the UN (a useless, interferring, waste of time and money) does not add one bit of legitimacy to your outrageous claims. I could claim that your Indian forefathers murdered some of my ancestors too, if I were a self-entitled, bitter person stuck looking for compensation from 200 year old events.

Get on with your life and make something of it. What a waste to wallow in self-pity for your entire life. There are no free rides, so build your own.
You are not stupid, I just think you have bad luck when thinking.

George+ says: "Makes no sense to me.
But that is not unusual."
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Re: Bill C-45

Postby Dawnland » Jan 29th, 2013, 9:17 am

Fluffy;
There is a world that exists beyond the Okanagan Valley and to ensure the systemic policies that keep Indigenous peoples in Canada searching for justice be changed, it needs to happen at a federal level not just one reserve to another. This is about all Canadians, not PIB, OIB or their economics. To move beyond the current situation we must all move forward together.
Rwede;
Careful, your ignorance is showing. These are not `my`claims, they are facts that are being legally challenged. There was no compensation requested, only justice. The request is to ensure legislation exists to prevent this from happening again as well as acknowledgement from the foundational systems that these atrocities happened. My posts do not contain any self pity or wallowing, which leads me to believe that you joined this conversation to spread vicious propaganda. To you I say, "good day".
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Re: Bill C-45

Postby fluffy » Jan 29th, 2013, 3:12 pm

Dawnland wrote:Fluffy;
There is a world that exists beyond the Okanagan Valley and to ensure the systemic policies that keep Indigenous peoples in Canada searching for justice be changed, it needs to happen at a federal level not just one reserve to another. This is about all Canadians, not PIB, OIB or their economics. To move beyond the current situation we must all move forward together.


I hate to keep harping on the OIB's success rate, but I've heard Chief Louie speak and his message was more one of native self-support and initiative than one of trying to bend the government to his will. I can see wisdom in that. Changing the government's outlook, and that of Canadian white society in general is a long term project. Not that it is an unworthy cause but it's going to take a generation or more to accomplish and carries no short term benefit for First Nations' people. What Clarence Louie has done he has done in a couple of decades, and he has done it by working the existing system to his advantage.
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Re: Bill C-45

Postby Dawnland » Jan 29th, 2013, 3:38 pm

-fluffy- wrote:but I've heard Chief Louie speak

Did you actually hear Chief Louie speak or are you referring to the viral e-mail that went out describing his talk at the business forum in Alberta?
I admire Chief Louie's determination for economic success. However, economics is not the only challenge facing his constituents. The economic success of his reserve does not change the minds of those people who believe that the First Nations get a 'free ride', only government legislation can do that.
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Re: Bill C-45

Postby fluffy » Jan 29th, 2013, 4:59 pm

I worked for a contractor that did quite a bit of work for him on various projects over a number of years. The quality of work and the enthusiasm of the band members led me to do some research online. The email you speak of came up, it always does, but what I found most inspiring was an hour long video of an address he gave in Brandon, Manitoba in 2008 I believe. It's still up for viewing on Youtube, broken into ten minute segments it runs about an hour. It's called "A Day of Inspiration".

There is also a great book called "Dances With Dependancy" by Calvin Helin, a member of northern BC's Tshimshian Nation which speaks to much the same subject. Read review here:
http://www.firstnationsdrum.com/2007/03/dances-with-dependency/

I hear where you're coming from Dawnland, but again you are talking about a long drawn-out process with a dubious chance of success unless you can give the public at large something more than words. Shining examples of bands that have taken hold of the reins and done for themselves what you are asking the government to do for you would be a great way to turn public opinion in your favour.
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Re: Bill C-45

Postby Dawnland » Jan 29th, 2013, 5:46 pm

Fluffy;
I have read Calvin's book and feel that the Kelowna Accord had addressed many pieces of legislation that have long held First Nations captive in their dependency. Some of that book provided a framework for those talks. If that Accord had been upheld by the Harper Government some of these issues would not be applicable today. We would be well on our way to a new relationship for all Canadians.
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Re: Bill C-45

Postby fluffy » Jan 29th, 2013, 7:04 pm

Dawnland wrote:Fluffy;
I have read Calvin's book and feel that the Kelowna Accord had addressed many pieces of legislation that have long held First Nations captive in their dependency. Some of that book provided a framework for those talks. If that Accord had been upheld by the Harper Government some of these issues would not be applicable today. We would be well on our way to a new relationship for all Canadians.


The Kelowna Accord largely took the form of extensive government funding to deal with native issues, a strategy that has been used for centuries and has always met with the same result, the need for more money. It is just this strategy that visionaries like Helin and Louie speak out against as it does nothing to encourage First Nations people to take command of their own destiny. It perpetuates the welfare state that is at the root of all the social problems facing natives today.

If Idle No More maintains an environmental focus it has a good chance of gaining mainstream support. If it becomes yet another money hunt it will take on just the face you are trying to lose, and nothing will change. Insensitive? Perhaps. Stereotypical? Maybe that too. Realistic? You bet.
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Re: Bill C-45

Postby Tony » Jan 29th, 2013, 7:35 pm

These are not `my`claims, they are facts that are being legally challenged. There was no compensation requested, only justice.


So, Dawnland, who are you challenging? The people and the Government who wronged your ancestors are, like your ancestors, long gone. What sort of justice can prevail over people who have been dead for 50-100 years?

Once again, if you want to succeed and still retain your heritage, you need to move forward, not wallow in the past.

And yes, I too have heard Chief Louie speak. He's well educated and loves business and can see how the success that he has shown his band can benefit all people, not just band members.
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Re: Bill C-45

Postby Dawnland » Jan 29th, 2013, 8:26 pm

Sorry Fluffy I think you are mistaken about the Kelowna Accord. The end result of the accord was the disbanding of the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development as well as the end of the Indian Act, thus leveling that playing field for all Canadians. Any monies attached to the accord have to do with the transfer of policy and control of services (AKA paying out all the bureaucrats who won't be collecting their bloated salaries at INAC). All of these points are in Calvin's book. This needs to happen in order to move from the ward/trustee relationship that keeps the paper-pushers employed and the First Nations dependent on approval processes that differ from all other Canadians. Do you really want us to move forward as equals?
Tony; I am not challenging anything/one. I really think if you look at the history of these atrocities you will see that it isn't 50-100 years ago. The last residential school closed in 1996, 17 years ago.
My ancestors long gone? As a young woman of 12 I stepped foot onto the reserve for the first time. Why would I go to a reserve where I never lived or had any connection? I looked over the edge of a pine box draped in chiffon to look at the dead body of my biological grandmother. Why didn't I know her Tony? Could it be that after the Federal government held her captive for 10 years and she was released into a world she knew nothing about, she struggled with her role in any community? In the city of Penticton she was a dirty Indian who no one would rent to and on the reserve she didn't know the language or the traditional stories. After learning all the lessons that her parents didn't get to teach her, married and working, she started having kids of her own. Six kids later, the government and police show up and take ALL her children away (my Mother and all her brothers and sisters) and tell her that she'll never get her children back. I didn't know my aunts or uncles and most never knew their mother and father had even died, two of them we still can't locate.
I want to make this point perfectly clear: You can't throw money at this problem and money isn't the answer. Change the legislation and teach all Canadians the mistakes of the past so this will never happen again.
I am not against business or economic development. I support the entrepreneurship of anyone willing to put their blood, sweat and tears into it. I am not against Chief Clarence Louie, I support the efforts he and his community exhibit everyday. I just do not believe that business, without changes to Federal Legislation, will solve the issues we all face today. Does the Osoyoos Indian Band still collect their piece of the Federal dollar? Yes. So are they really free? No. So in the mind of many Canadian conservatives, it still means the 'Indians get a free ride'. It still means that small-minded Canadians can teach their children to hold the First Nations people and culture in contempt for not doing their fair share to contribute.
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Re: Bill C-45

Postby Dawnland » Jan 29th, 2013, 8:51 pm

http://www.ustream.tv/channel/1610797

A live community forum for Idle No More. Penticton Museum and Archives.
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Re: Bill C-45

Postby fluffy » Jan 29th, 2013, 8:57 pm

Dawnland wrote:Sorry Fluffy I think you are mistaken about the Kelowna Accord. The end result of the accord was the disbanding of the Department of Indian Affairs and Northern Development as well as the end of the Indian Act, thus leveling that playing field for all Canadians. Any monies attached to the accord have to do with the transfer of policy and control of services (AKA paying out all the bureaucrats who won't be collecting their bloated salaries at INAC).


With respect Dawnland, everything I have read on the Kelowna Accord deals with funding for aboriginal health, education, housing and economic development. I have seen nothing of the dismantling of any government branches or legislation. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place, perhaps you can point me there.
Last edited by fluffy on Jan 29th, 2013, 9:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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