Westjet Decision is Monday

[Static]

Who are you trying to kid? Burnt out empty commercial space represents revitalization and opportunity. I'm pretty sure there was an episode of Glee that covered this...

You're joking, right?

[Drip_Torch]

You're joking, right?


Nice try Mister... no way are you outing me, in my community, as some sort of reality based rational thinker. Nope, I subscribe to the magical thinking "prospective" that dominates this community.

Seriously, once you stand on your head and look at things in the mirror... you can plainly see that this decline, you speak of, is actually an ascent in a completely different direction. Better still, by simply dismissing, as irrelevant, the issue that arises from the force of gravity and it's effect on the blood flow to my brain... I actually get a pretty warm and fuzzy feeling for what is going on in this town.

... and if anyone tries to tell me differently I'LL JUST RAISE MY VOICE, repeat myself and then make fun of some obvious physical defect on the speaker.

Best place on Earth, - don't you know?

[mountain sky]

Iv'e said it a hundred times and will once more. For a City/Town that has as many natural atributes, two lakefronts, largely protected, two mountain ranges, the channel, parks, wineries beaches, we as a people have messed it up pretty bad.


As a City/town, if you undervalue yourself, and "open your arms to anybody who looks your way" nobody of any value will want to be with you.

-We don't have proper development guidlines that are strictly followed ( land use, creative artcitecture, themeing in signage and storefronts, identity of the area and town, a mission and a vission of what we want to be and who we want to attract)
-We don't require non-refundable deposits or bonds required upfront that will pay for developing and upkeep of blighted lots ( grass, fencing, graffetti removal) in the event of a project not following thru.

Without consistancy in development and strict adherance to those ideals, nobody serious will invest because they may have a Walmart pop up next door or a brownfield lot.

Penticton has been seen as the Happy Hooker in development and will sleep with anybody who comes along. They dump them in the morning and you never hear from them again.

With some stricter development protocals and being proud of who we are and not feeling that we have to be a sell-out, you might be surprised who will come along.

Requiring consistancy in signage, a themed downtown, beach areas both Lake OK and Skaha, these are the inexpensive things you can do but they give developers a sense of comfort that the people following will be required to do the same and thus protect their investment.

We can do the same in residential areas, more pathways, corner stores and niche shopping areas for basic amenties. This is the way of the future. Big box stores kill a community and have everybody in thier cars. Don't get me wrong there is a place for them but not like West Kelowna, that community is dead. Over development of Big Box surrounded by residential is not the way to go.

[bipdl]

OH MY GOD!!

There ARE some people here who think with their brains, not with their arses!

Mountain sky, you bring a smile to my face with your astute observations! You are absolutely, positively, unerringly correct!

Drip torch, I love your ironic sense of humour! Might as well laugh at the way things are and the way things look like they'll remain... because to stop laughing is to start crying in lament of how things could be, but sadly (and shamefully) aren't.

Static, you have issues pretty well pegged as they actually are. Hey, when you're right, you're right. 'Nuff said.

Two bits, it's time to progress beyond a 1960's mindset. It's been a long time coming, but we're now starting to understand that just because you can...doesn't necessarily mean you should. If what you have as a model isn't working, making an even bigger model... well, figure it out. (Clearly, the current model isn't working!) We live in a brave new world, where large scale manufacturing is a sunset industry in Canada. (The examples you site are all small scale, niche operations.) Time to take stock of our unique assets, and think long and hard about how to achieve socially equitable prosperity WITHOUT DESTROYING the essence of what makes this place so attractive in the first place. More is NOT better. Smart is better! (Compare India with Sweden.)

Westjet (and any other going concern of consequence) will only want to set up shop in Penticton if and when the village gets it's sh*t together and begins to show some promise and forward thinking that might potentially translate into stable future business opportunities. Ditto goes for Summerland. Bending over forward for any fast talkin' hustler who blows into town with a "master plan for a world class" whatever simply smacks of desperation and low self esteem, regardless of the bluster and rhetoric from obviously challenged local cheerleaders and the publishers who puff them up.

If you want Westjet, earn their business! It's a two way street, and their recent decision proves they're smart enough to know it.

[twobits]

Two bits, it's time to progress beyond a 1960's mindset. It's been a long time coming, but we're now starting to understand that just because you can...doesn't necessarily mean you should. If what you have as a model isn't working, making an even bigger model... well, figure it out. (Clearly, the current model isn't working!) We live in a brave new world, where large scale manufacturing is a sunset industry in Canada. (The examples you site are all small scale, niche operations.) Time to take stock of our unique assets, and think long and hard about how to achieve socially equitable prosperity WITHOUT DESTROYING the essence of what makes this place so attractive in the first place. More is NOT better. Smart is better! (Compare India with Sweden.)

Those types of manufacturing facilities may not be large on a global scale, but they are large on a local scale and provide many hundreds of the good paying jobs so many of you lament are lacking. Instead of realizing the need for these types of jobs to generate economy you dream of idealic neighbourhoods with pathways dotted with unicorns and ice cream stands and applaud the vision of yerts that provide ten dollar jobs for three months. We can all walk those tree bordered pathways for the nine months we are unemployed. Live with your heads in the clouds if you so desire. My feet are fully planted in reality and know that developers will not build your utopian vision because of the reality of economics. Legislate and regulate untill the cows come home, demand common signs and boutique shops be built on every sunshine corner with access to a bike lane. It will not do anything except cement stagnation. The money will just go elsewhere. And that is exactly the the thing you cloud dwellers refuse to understand. As much as you wish and fantasize and toss out fabulous ideas that everyone thinks would be just marvelous, you can't make someone pay for something that doesnt make sense financially. Wonder when mountain sky will put her money to mouth and actually build something like she proposes? Oh wait, just good ideas with someone elses coin! And please do explain how my suggestion that the flat airport lands be designated for industrial/heavy commercial uses comparable to what is here now is destroying the essence of what makes this place so attractive? Do you people have any idea of how many businesses we have lost to Kelowna and the north Okanagan because we lack an industrial land base? Many have toured our fabulous city with the intent to locate only to be forced north. We need such activity to be able to afford to maintain that essence. Activity like that gets the attention of West Jet too, not empty yerts they fly over. Realize the rules of the game, work within them without destroying what you have and move forward.
The absolute irony is that it is not me but rather some of you that appear to be stuck in a 1960"s mindset, complete with flower power and all. Peace!

[Spocky]

Here's a great use for all that land being taken up by the oversized airport: Build a new hospital and associated health centers. Promote Penticton as the salubrious spa-like location to recover and heal, and rake in the big bucks from the cash-in-hand wealthy foreign medical tourists! :nyah:

[twobits]

Here's a great use for all that land being taken up by the oversized airport: Build a new hospital and associated health centers. Promote Penticton as the salubrious spa-like location to recover and heal, and rake in the big bucks from the cash-in-hand wealthy foreign medical tourists! :nyah:

West Bank First Nations are way ahead of you.
Oh, and when you have torn down the airport to build your hospital, how will those wealthy foreigners get here?

[Spocky]

West Bank First Nations are way ahead of you.
Oh, and when you have torn down the airport to build your hospital, how will those wealthy foreigners get here?

WFN's "for the rich b***hes" hospital may be the only occupied commercial building in West Kelowna soon, so at least it will keep the lights on in what looks like it's gonna be BC's next ghost town.

As for how they get to Penticton, it's not Tuktoyaktuk. An hour's drive up the road is a major international REAL airport with REAL flights that actually go places REAL people want to go. I'll set up a limo service to pick up the "sick and loaded" at YLW and drive them in comfort to the Penticton Healing Hospital, Spa Centre & Money Grab. :sillygrin:

[mountain sky]

I actually do know what I am talking about. I also have over $1M invested in your community and work in politics in Calgary and the province of Alberta. I have seen how those "ideals" can rejuvinate blighted communities that have existed for generations.

Look at TIPS (Tax Incremented Funding) Calgary was the first Canadian City to bring it in and it has turned the East Village into something people are investing in, big time.....Crime is down. It's simple - Borrow to enhance a select area thus attracting new development (with strict development ideals and vision) , take all the incremental tax increase that comes from new development to pay back loan (over very short time) You don't have to reinvente the wheel. There are so many examples of how Cities and Town have turned themselves around and it usually doesn't invlolve one manufacturing plant.

it is a wholesale change of thinking and planning.

Penticton has the bones, they just don't have the visionairies.

[Spocky]

I actually do know what I am talking about. I also have over $1M invested in your community and work in politics in Calgary and the province of Alberta. I have seen how those "ideals" can rejuvinate blighted communities that have existed for generations.

Look at TIPS (Tax Incremented Funding) Calgary was the first Canadian City to bring it in and it has turned the East Village into something people are investing in, big time.....Crime is down. It's simple - Borrow to enhance a select area thus attracting new development (with strict development ideals and vision) , take all the incremental tax increase that comes from new development to pay back loan (over very short time) You don't have to reinvente the wheel. There are so many examples of how Cities and Town have turned themselves around and it usually doesn't invlolve one manufacturing plant.

it is a wholesale change of thinking and planning.

Penticton has the bones, they just don't have the visionairies.

OK, here is a vision for you. Tear down the useless YYF and put a 100% tax free high tech campus on the land. Make it a real 100% tax free so that the techys don't even pay PST, etc. Watch the area become Silicon Valley North within a couple of years.

[mountain sky]

Dont tear down the Airport (very short sighted) , but doing something like a High tech campus could have some merit. That still doesn't address the development issues and lack of vision for the rest of Penticton. Once a bust happens again you are left with the same problem if you don't tackle the lack of vision and planning in the City as a whole.

[XT225]

A sign of a troll is someone who makes a post on every thread on here within a very few minutes....spocky fits that bill and I don't believe that he or she is from Penticton at all. Not worth conversing with. Westjet is not coming for now; lets support Air Canada and convince them to go Eastward from here. Our airport is doing just fine.

[Spocky]

A sign of a troll is someone who makes a post on every thread on here within a very few minutes....spocky fits that bill and I don't believe that he or she is from Penticton at all. Not worth conversing with. Westjet is not coming for now; lets support Air Canada and convince them to go Eastward from here. Our airport is doing just fine.

I live in Peachland and never stated I was in Penticton, I only come on to Castanet once a day to catch up with everything as I have a job I have to go to, my post average is 2.95 per day, and it doesn't say Moderator next to your name, so until such time as I get a notice from the administrators of this board that I'm violating a rule, I have as much right to say what I want when I want as you or anyone else. Thank you.

[twobits]

Look at TIPS (Tax Incremented Funding) Calgary was the first Canadian City to bring it in and it has turned the East Village into something people are investing in, big time.....Crime is down. It's simple - Borrow to enhance a select area thus attracting new development (with strict development ideals and vision) , take all the incremental tax increase that comes from new development to pay back loan (over very short time) You don't have to reinvente the wheel.

This is hardly Calgary, and Penticton does not have an East village situation. The two markets are not comparable with respect to drawing capital and investment. And just how do you think TIPS would fly here when the public crys foul over something as innocuous and beneficial as the tax breaks for specified economic development zones. To be clear, I am not against a TIPS initiative, I just can't see that borrowing money upfront is going to fly. The knee jerk reactionists out there, and Penticton is full of them, will just label it as corporate welfare with taxpayers paying the interest. It's not me you have to convince, nor do I believe City Hall, it's the general electorate that buys the crap put out by people like James Miller at the Herald and a few select and repetative letters contributors that have done more damage to the community moving forward than all the city councillors, engineering and planning depts combined.

[-fluffy-]

Point one: Closing the airport is a bonehead idea.

Point two: Job one is jobs. Meaningful employment to keep young families in the area with an actual future and wages decent enough that housing doesn't remain out of reach. I'm also thinking we should work on filling up the empty land and buildings in established industrial zones before developing some place as highly visible as the lands around the airport.

Point three: You can't invent economic health. To support industry there has to be a market for what ever product you're looking to produce. People aren't going to buy hula hoops just because you want to make hula hoops. The are some former mainstays of local industry that are just hanging on. The Foundry, Peerless Page, and Britco have been mentioned already, all of these plus many others are running at a fraction of their capacity. The economic situation in general has to see some improvement.