Westjet Decision is Monday

[Static]

The opening of the Coquahala is what started the downtorn in Penticton, because there was no longer a reason to drive through the town. Every year it has got worse. The current global economy has very little to do with the economy of Penticton. Outside of a small handful of companies that produce products for the resource sector, the economy is dead. It has the equivalent of a trade deficit, which means money leaves it more than enters. This started with the decline in tourism which started in the 90's and continues today. Penticton has been and is on a slow road to the poor house. Proof of this is the empty lots, store fronts, condos, no population growth, hotels turned monthly ghetto rentals, and the deterioration of the industrial sector. This started long before the "finacnial crisis".

[-fluffy-]

Once the jets stopped coming to Penticton, Kelowna grew exponentially.

Or maybe that would be better stated that once Kelowna grew exponentially, the airlines' focus shifted towards there. I would think that airline service increases/decreases would be more a reaction to population changes than a cause. Kelowna's growth was well under way as the geographic center of the Okanagan, and if anything contributed to the spike in growth it was the Coquihalla connector. That step alone shaved a couple of hours off the drive between Kelowna and the lower mainland.

[Spocky]

These issues are a lot more complicated than they seem on the surface, if the decision was an easy one it would certainly have been made by now. It's everything in balance, demand for product leads to jobs which means employees who need housing, retail and service support, which all means more tax dollars for the city to go to work on making the area more attractive for more people to come here and keeping the wheels turning. It all comes back to money, the grease for the machine. Easily available start-up capital? A high-tech industrial community sounds nice but why would those businesses want to come here as opposed to somewhere else? What have we got that they would like? What makes us the stand-out choice?

The standout choice is simple:

1) Fantastic lifestyle
2) Great climate
3) A REAL International Airport an hour away
4) Low real estate prices (and getting lower every day)

This would ONLY work with a full provincial tax exemption. Every kind of BC tax: ZERO. Then they won't just come, they'll FLOOD.

[twobits]

If I understand you correctly, you'd cover Penticton with large industrial parks, unaffordable condos, even more unaffordable monster homes, and pave the rest with shopping malls and asphalt. Yup, it's already all been done... and like I said, that model ain't workin' anymore on a social level. Read the Kelowna area posts and you'll see what I'm saying is true.

No you quite obviously don't understand me correctly if you think that is what I promote. Actually you are quite clueless and it is pointless to continue this discussion. To you the problem is leadership at city hall when the reality is the current leadership did not create the economic conditions we find ourselves in, nor did the ones before that. Some things are just outside of local control. As to overbuilt and unaffordable condo's.......virtually every city in Canada must have bozo's for leadership cause it sure seems like it is not just unique to Penticton.
Bottom line it seems is that you will accuse anyone who does not buy into your vision as living in the past. Hope to see you running for council next time since you seem to have it all figured out.

[-fluffy-]

The standout choice is simple:

1) Fantastic lifestyle
2) Great climate
3) A REAL International Airport an hour away
4) Low real estate prices (and getting lower every day)

That wold be cool to attract employees, but attracting the businesses themselves would be key. They're going to be looking at stuff like access to markets and local transportation links. You're talking about a state-of-the-art Silicone Valley north that's at least an hour away from the nearest airport? NOt a real big selling point in my mind.

This would ONLY work with a full provincial tax exemption. Every kind of BC tax: ZERO. Then they won't just come, they'll FLOOD.

That's a nice thought but the first thing that comes to mind is what about existing businesses that have already paid their dues and are struggling to keep their doors open? How are they going to react to gov't giving the new guy the big bargain? And where are you going to find a poltician willing to risk that kind of controversy?

[Spocky]

NOTE TO MODS: You might wanna start a new thread for this (High-Tech Center For The Valley ???) as we're off the Westjet issue.

That wold be cool to attract employees, but attracting the businesses themselves would be key. They're going to be looking at stuff like access to markets and local transportation links. You're talking about a state-of-the-art Silicone Valley north that's at least an hour away from the nearest airport? NOt a real big selling point in my mind.

Have you ever tried to get from San Jose to SFO? If you can do it in an hour in that traffic you have to make the trip in a helicopter. Besides, this project could work anywhere in the Okanagan. West Kelowna with its wiped out commercial retail sector would be a great candidate.

And of course the businesses are the ones that would be attracted by the tax free ploy. That's the essence of the deal. The bottom savings over anywhere else in N. America would be huge.

That's a nice thought but the first thing that comes to mind is what about existing businesses that have already paid their dues and are struggling to keep their doors open? How are they going to react to gov't giving the new guy the big bargain? And where are you going to find a poltician willing to risk that kind of controversy?

Existing businesses would throw a parade for this project. Let's add a few thousand highly skilled citizens making $50K-$100K plus into a city that's wilting on the vine and see how many millions get injected into the local economy. It would be a boom unlike any in Valley history.

As for the politicians, there isn't one of them that I would pee on if they were on fire, as they're more useless than teats on a bull. This would have to be a popular referendum issue with total community backing.

[-fluffy-]

The reality of a plan like this is that you need politicians to make it work, and to get the politicians on board you need the support of the electorate. If a business is hurting and their tax bill is part of the difficulty they are facing, how are they going to feel about the gov't giving someone else a free ride, especially when that someone else hasn't put in the time and effort of the existing business? I doubt throwing a parade would be high on their to-do list.

This whole discussion started with your suggestion to close the airport and re-purpose the land, a plan I still see as short-sighted. We need jobs here to start with, and there are enough facilities presently laying idle to fill those needs for the time being. Personally I don't think we're going to see a lot of activity in that end until the bigger economic picture improves and the people with the money get comfortable spending it again.

[Spocky]

The reality of a plan like this is that you need politicians to make it work, and to get the politicians on board you need the support of the electorate. If a business is hurting and their tax bill is part of the difficulty they are facing, how are they going to feel about the gov't giving someone else a free ride, especially when that someone else hasn't put in the time and effort of the existing business? I doubt throwing a parade would be high on their to-do list.

This whole discussion started with your suggestion to close the airport and re-purpose the land, a plan I still see as short-sighted. We need jobs here to start with, and there are enough facilities presently laying idle to fill those needs for the time being. Personally I don't think we're going to see a lot of activity in that end until the bigger economic picture improves and the people with the money get comfortable spending it again.

Couldn't disagree more. You tell area business owners that there is a plan which costs them nothing and will put the city in the prime of a high tech boom with thousands of well paid citizens flocking to live here and they will throw a parade.

Politicians, put them all in the stockade as far as I'm concerned.

The airport, more useless than the politicians. Plough it under as it's a pointless waste of space. Great place for the hitech campus though!

All the other plans I've seen for the area are more of the same old same old that hasn't worked since the 90s. This is the only ORIGINAL plan, IMHO, of course.

[Tony]

Or maybe that would be better stated that once Kelowna grew exponentially, the airlines' focus shifted towards there. I would think that airline service increases/decreases would be more a reaction to population changes than a cause. Kelowna's growth was well under way as the geographic center of the Okanagan, and if anything contributed to the spike in growth it was the Coquihalla connector. That step alone shaved a couple of hours off the drive between Kelowna and the lower mainland.

Kelowna didn't start growing until they were the only airport with jet service. It might have been coincidental, but when Penticton dropped jet service, most people started flying from Kelowna, and that is when the growth started.
You are so right about the Coquihalla being a detriment to Penticton's economic well being, but that really wasn't caused by the airports or flight service, which, if I'm not mistaken, is what this forum was about. The spike in airport growth in Kelowna was the loss of jet service in Penticton.

[Static]

I agree with Fluffy with this one, it was the Coquahala.


KLO Population
1981: 59K
1986: 61K Coquhihalla opens
1991: 75K
1996: 89K
2001: 96K
2003: 106K

Source: http://www.kelowna.ca/CityPage/Docs/PDFs/Community%20Planning/kelowna2030/2009Population&HousingProjectionsDiscussionPaper.pdf

[3+141592]

At the risk of being challenged to run for Council (a bit of a "Thankless" job, I reckon), I suggest that the old
Canwood plant is a great location for a student ("High tech") campus. It is strategically located next to OC and
currently in need of a real purpose. In fact, I can't imagine that it is not already on OC's strategic plan.

Being that funds are an on-going issue, could a unique "Habitat for Humanity" operation be considered here
(obviously, the current building not suitable)?

Apologies for contributing to thread erosion...

[Static]

Too many universities and colleges already. What type of benefits would a habitat for humanity campus have?

[3+141592]

What we have here at OC is somewhat dysfunctional. A nice expansion but little consideration for students accommodations. A bit like building a shopping center with no parking lot, in my view. "Habitat for Humanity" was mentioned because I admire their "get it done" attitude and the Community involvement that it generates. Nothing more than an "out of the box" suggestion.

[-fluffy-]

You tell area business owners that there is a plan which costs them nothing and will put the city in the prime of a high tech boom with thousands of well paid citizens flocking to live here and they will throw a parade.

In a perfect world that may true, but in the real world as soon as people see the government handing our freebies they'll be "parading" right up to the trough for their share. It does make sense in the bigger picture, but it's a political hot potato and you won't be able to make it fly without a few "useless politicians" to promote it.

College expansion, on the other hand, is clean industry that means construction jobs, permanent staff and support services, and lots of eager young minds looking for housing and entertainment. That could be combined with the high tech idea in more of an R&D approach.

[Drip_Torch]

To you the problem is leadership at city hall when the reality is the current leadership did not create the economic conditions we find ourselves in, nor did the ones before that. Some things are just outside of local control.

There are some things that are just out of control locally - as well.

Local bylaws, land use, development regulations, etc... are a type of multi party social contract that sets the tone in the community. This Council and it's managers show little respect for the work done by previous Council's and have substituted a process in the place of due process. They operate by an old standard that allows them to make a reasoned decision, rather than a reasonable decision. Thus, blatant misrepresentations, straw men and issue substitutions are the fuel for debate in the Council Chambers and they operate by a bully's standard.

If Council were to decide on West Jet, they could and probably would decide to locate here based on the fact that 8 billion don't live here and the chorography of the flash mob was adequate by small town standards. That's a reasoned decision, but West Jet made a reasonable decision based on the fact that those 8 billion people don't really have a good reason to visit and you can't pay the bills with exploited youth enthusiasm.

Penticton has a lot of things going for it - City Hall isn't on that list.