Westjet Decision is Monday

[bipdl]

As to overbuilt and unaffordable condo's.......virtually every city in Canada must have bozo's for leadership cause it sure seems like it is not just unique to Penticton.

You just proved my point, DOH!

The days for your type of lifestyle are numbered.

[Tony]

I agree with Fluffy with this one, it was the Coquahala.


KLO Population
1981: 59K
1986: 61K Coquhihalla opens
1991: 75K
1996: 89K
2001: 96K
2003: 106K

Source: http://www.kelowna.ca/CityPage/Docs/PDFs/Community%20Planning/kelowna2030/2009Population&HousingProjectionsDiscussionPaper.pdf

Sorry Static - I wasn't clear. I was talking about the airport only. I 100% agree with the Coquihalla data.

[bipdl]

I agree too.

737's out of Penticton Regional may be a nice to have, but it certainly isn't a need to have. Other than possibly coincidental timing, there is little reason to connect loss of jet service to Penticton's downhill slide.

The Coquihalla Connector could easily be renamed the Penticton By-Pass. The reasons for the chosen routing are obvious. Penticton simply (though mistakenly) assumed it was a safe bet to expect perpetual economic spinoffs to fall in its lap, yet nothing was done to prepare for such. We are now sleeping in the dead laurels we rested on. We relied on a mere image to carry us forward, instead of working to create a good durable actual identity. (Yes, Scarlet, there is a difference!)

Sorry, but Elvis Fest's don't cut it! And don't even start about Ironman!

[Spocky]

I agree too.

737's out of Penticton Regional may be a nice to have, but it certainly isn't a need to have. Other than possibly coincidental timing, there is little reason to connect loss of jet service to Penticton's downhill slide.

The Coquihalla Connector could easily be renamed the Penticton By-Pass. The reasons for the chosen routing are obvious. Penticton simply (though mistakenly) assumed it was a safe bet to expect perpetual economic spinoffs to fall in its lap, yet nothing was done to prepare for such. We are now sleeping in the dead laurels we rested on. We relied on a mere image to carry us forward, instead of working to create a good durable actual identity. (Yes, Scarlet, there is a difference!)

Sorry, but Elvis Fest's don't cut it! And don't even start about Ironman!

I agree fully with all your points, including the ham-handed loss of Ironman. And I also believe that Penticton can be saved from itself with strong and directed community action. However, on a thread where some have argued that they prefer to fly to Vancouver first in order to get to Calgary to save themselves the commute to YLW :127: I don't know if many others will agree... as they're too busy living in delusionland.

[Tony]

I agree too.

737's out of Penticton Regional may be a nice to have, but it certainly isn't a need to have. Other than possibly coincidental timing, there is little reason to connect loss of jet service to Penticton's downhill slide.

The Coquihalla Connector could easily be renamed the Penticton By-Pass. The reasons for the chosen routing are obvious. Penticton simply (though mistakenly) assumed it was a safe bet to expect perpetual economic spinoffs to fall in its lap, yet nothing was done to prepare for such. We are now sleeping in the dead laurels we rested on. We relied on a mere image to carry us forward, instead of working to create a good durable actual identity. (Yes, Scarlet, there is a difference!)

Sorry, but Elvis Fest's don't cut it! And don't even start about Ironman!

Once again, I was talking of airport business only. That's what this thread started over, and I was trying to stay on track.

[nepal]

:sunshine:
Hopefully Penticton never becomes over-developed and congested like some other cities. Penticton is a very livable size as is and if you live in Penticton, will know the many successful businesses/industries and the excellent facilities provided, as well as outstanding natural beauty. Penticton doesn't need an international airport, just a good regional airline service such as it already has with Air Canada at YYF, who connect around the world anyway. Yes, a direct Calgary connection would be the icing on the cake, either with AC or WJ. Peachland, Summerland, Penticton, Kaleden, Twin Lakes, OK Falls, Oliver, Osoyoos, Keremeos, Apex, Mt Baldy, GF, Princeton and surrounding area, are all nice places to live/play and are well served by the South Okanagan Regional Airport YYF, conveniently located at Penticton.
:sunshine:

[-fluffy-]

I agree with you nepal. The meteoric growth "enjoyed" by Kelowna in the last couple of decades has brought with it a plethora of problems we can certainly live without in Penticton, or at least live with our scaled down versions. The economy in general will turn around, money that is currently sitting in bank accounts will start to flow again, and developers and business people alike will see the benefits that Penticton can offer in its less-than-hectic lifestyle as an attraction rather than a detriment. I don't see the town as dying, I would rather look at it as "in transition", perhaps even taking a step back in time to when we were a mecca for family vacations.

Sidenote: There was a short but pointed letter to the editor in this morning's paper where Jackie Frederick, a name synonymous with experience and expertise in Penticton tourism, took Mayor Ashton to task for his apology to the Chamber of Commerce at the recent Business excellence awards, saying that this would have been more appropriately directed to the former Penticton Business Development Group and Tourism Penticton. Not a huge issue on the surface, but on closer inspection an solid indication that there is a lot of room for improvement in local politics when it comes to self-serving little fiefdoms like what is now the Penticton Hospitality Association. The PBDG assembled some of the finest minds in Penticton to address just the sort of issues we are talking about in this thread, but they weren't even allowed a decent start before being stonewalled by a selfish, small-minded special interest group intent on keeping a pie meant for all clawed close to themselves. As long as this sort of petty nepotism thrives in Penticton we will have to work doubly hard for any real progress.

[Drip_Torch]

I would rather look at it as "in transition", perhaps even taking a step back in time to when we were a mecca for family vacations.

...And with that statement my eyes rolled towards the back of my head to kinder and much gentler time...

Jamming to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cd_Fdly3rX8 the song stops midway through so the 8 track can be flipped. The heater in the old ford fairlane is switched to high for the hills to prevent the car from overheating - we're on our way to the vacation mecca known as Penticton.

Somehow, I'm sure there were more hills on the old highway then and us kids were damn thankful of that, because when the heater was switched on, the windows also got cracked a little which let some of the smoke the adults were saving, out of the car. People really were so much more sensible then. They packed coolers full of food and drink, brought tents and had a glove box full of 8 tracks to be exchanged and played in the campground. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfZWp-hGCdA

So things went, but times did change and it wasn't long till we had cassettes, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkADj0TPrJA
then CD's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4MTyXTiLGw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53n2LeCU-Go
and now we have MP3, ipods, ipads and nano's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihYwcaxEEUk

... and I guess my point would be; I was there and I saw what you did, I saw it with my own two eyes...

It's 2013 ... How do you see this new family vacation mecca unfolding?

Ext. Winery: hot sunny day... " Okay kids you stay in the car and play with the dog while you're mom and I go check out the winery."

Ext. Main St: "Oh look kids they moved the Flintstone dinosaur village to the big empty lot... you go play while you're mom and I go find a laser disc player in one of the pawn shops"

The baby boom and the 70's are over... adapt and overcome, or keep playing "In the air tonight" ......original Phil, Urban Renew, Tupac Shakur, or Non point; it really doesn't matter cause none of them are selling these days.


Argh... I want to scream and shout http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYtGl1dX5qI , but it appears I'm a minority in this town.

The number one song in Penticton... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK8mJJJvaes

That's irony.

[bipdl]

GREAT posts, gang!

Fluffy, I loved your sidenote... says a mouthful about... er, I'd better stay away from this one in this thread. Suffice it to say politics seems to trump sensibility, which nicely confirms what Drip_Torch pointed out 9 posts ago.

Nepal, you make some excellent points. I fervently believe that bigger is not better. Bigger is just bigger, and usually worse. There's absolutely nothing wrong with small, provided you use it properly (NO double entendre intended, so stop giggling like schoolgirls!!). Penticton is a good size, it just needs to buck-up and stop longing to be bigger than it is.

Tony, you're right. We've wandered away from the Westjet decision... but we're on a roll and it seems to going pretty well. Please forgive us? At least we're under the proper city heading.
:127:

[-fluffy-]

The baby boom and the 70's are over... adapt and overcome...

That's the big question isn't it? Just what direction do we move in with a realistic expectation of some prosperity down the road?

[Tony]

GREAT posts, gang!

Fluffy, I loved your sidenote... says a mouthful about... er, I'd better stay away from this one in this thread. Suffice it to say politics seems to trump sensibility, which nicely confirms what Drip_Torch pointed out 9 posts ago.

Nepal, you make some excellent points. I fervently believe that bigger is not better. Bigger is just bigger, and usually worse. There's absolutely nothing wrong with small, provided you use it properly (NO double entendre intended, so stop giggling like schoolgirls!!). Penticton is a good size, it just needs to buck-up and stop longing to be bigger than it is.

Tony, you're right. We've wandered away from the Westjet decision... but we're on a roll and it seems to going pretty well. Please forgive us? At least we're under the proper city heading.
:127:

Never a problem. That's how good discussions get started. I had just stated a couple of points about the airport and they were mistakenly interpreted as to what was the downfall of Penticton. I was just reinforcing that I was talking about the airport only.

[Drip_Torch]

That's the big question isn't it? Just what direction do we move in with a realistic expectation of some prosperity down the road?

Sometimes big questions just don't have big answers. The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem and that alone, is going to be a big first step in this valley.

I've been here for a little more than two years and I sure didn't move here to be anyone, or push anyone around. I moved here to be anonymous and would probably be wearing a Guy Fawkes mask if it wasn't for the in your face smell that I encountered.

As I see it, we can hire the best film makers in the Province; capture the beaches, the scenery, the mountains, the facilities and the architecture. Edit it together, add a beat, a catchy rift and a narrative... And we will have created the very reason I upgraded from a basic cable box to an hd pvr... FFx4 for a few seconds and I'm back to some drama that I can really buy into, like Big Bang Theory or The New Normal.

I believe we're far too good at measuring the tangibles and manipulating the processes towards predetermined outcomes.

I lived through two "world class" events, Expo 86 and the Olympics and I've witnessed two starkly different messages that we sent out to the world.

In 1986 we humbly told the world "something is happening here" and the Prince and Princess of Wales, the President of the United States and dignitaries from all over the world came to see what exactly "it" was. All of them we're greeted with warm welcome and we put on a good show.

Our Olympic production was amazing, due in part to the weather and the incredible work of the media conglomerate that produced the show. We really do have world class story tellers and media production capabilities. But,... the message was quite different in that it was a hyper patriotic "We're number 1". Thank goodness Sidney pulled it off and we emerged number 1 in the only winter sport that really matters, or the whole thing would have been a little embarrassing.

I believe we need to get back to some fundamental truths.

Penticton isn't really a place to stay forever, that's a line floated by land developers and tourism operators. No one is going to stay here forever, we are simply sharing some time and some space. Our community isn't measured by the buildings and infrastructure, or the mountains and the beaches - it's measured by the way we live together, work together and play together.

Penticton is a place where the people meet near the water that flows year round.

Our primary attraction, the thing that draws people here in the summer, is and always will be our community... it's the girl working the night shift at chevron that greets our guests with a genuine, content smile. The manager at the Ramada that upgrades a guests experience, simply because she can.

It's the smiles we exchange.

Frankly, it's my observation that our biggest strength has never been so weak and until we can find a way to respectfully engage with one another; those small answers we need to start working towards are going to remain elusive.

[Tony]

Penticton isn't really a place to stay forever, that's a line floated by land developers and tourism operators. No one is going to stay here forever, we are simply sharing some time and some space. Our community isn't measured by the buildings and infrastructure, or the mountains and the beaches - it's measured by the way we live together, work together and play together.

To be honest, that is what the name translates from the original native name for the area. You may have captured the concept in your last statement however.

[Drip_Torch]

I was told that it meant "where the people gather" and when I looked into it...

Wikipedia offered,

"Place where water passes beyond." (information from Isaac Harris, published in Vernon News, 18 July 1918); compare with: "Derived from the Okanagan dialect of the Salish tribe, the word Pen-tak-tin meaning 'a place of permanent abode where waters pass by'." (50th Anniversary booklet of Penticton, 1958) From the Indian name Pente-hik-ton, "ever" or "forever" referring to the constant steady flow of the Okanagan River out of the lake.... applied by the Indians to the locality at the outlet of the lake, meaning that the stream ran on ever, or forever, in contrast to other streams which dried up during the summer (6th Report of the Okanagan Historical Society); compare with: "Derives from the Okanagan word Sin-peen-tick-tin, loosely translatable as 'permanent place'." (c1980 advice from Randy Bouchard, BC Indian Language Project).

The sentiment that I was attempting to express is that we're really only here for a brief moment... there were other before us and with any luck there will be others after us.

A respectful discourse is not unlike sharing a fine bottle of wine: once all is said and done, you're into a no deposit - no return situation.

[Dizzy1]

One of the reasons the Penticton Airport is not that busy is that they stopped jet service years ago.

Kelowna went through a similar phase as well back in the early to mid 1990s. After Pacific Western bought out CP Air and Time Air, Canadian flew fewer 737s into YLW with more use of Dash 8s. It only took a year or two before the 737s were gone and Canadian used Dash 8s exclusivly with the odd F28. Air BC flew Dash 8s with the exception of the odd BAe 146. This of course changed once WestJet and Greyhound Air started in 1996 bringing back regualr jet service to Kelowna.

We used to be a major hub with 737's landing on a regular basis.

While Penticton has seen 737 service in the past, thats a very long stretch to claim YYF was a major hub. YLW isn't even a major hub despite their continuing growth.

Once the jets stopped landing here, then people started going to Kelowna where they could get faster service to Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver, Toronto.

No, people strated going to Kelowna because the airlines saw that there was not enough money to be made by servicing Penticton and Kelowna with similar flights so in order to make money, they needed to reduce service to one of the airports ... Penticton, given their location was the obvious choice.