Silent Majority in Summerland: Urban Growth Strategy

[totoramona]

Well old boy, twobits, rkillick and NextGen.... I attended my first meeting on the matter last night.
No one appears to agree with you guys in person. No one spoke to your sentiments at the public hearing. Although there may be some arguments that could have been shared, there were none. Thirty-eight intelligent, respectful, sincere and heartfelt comments were made against taking the downtown lands out of the ALR for housing. Only ONE person in three hours spoke for the removal... a single property owner in the proposed area, who just wanted his land out of the ALR.
I think this so called "silent majority" schtick is up! There is silence because there is nobody.

[rkillick]

Many people who are affected have to work very hard at a normal job to be able to live on a "farm" that they pay to support and as such are unable to be at every meeting to voice their opinion. I think the issue has been beaten to death and a lot of the people (like me) realize that Summerland is not a good place to invest with the current sentiment. It is easier to go to towns that would love realistic sustainable development in such a difficult economic time. Summerland (again) will be left behind and slowly the tax burden will all shift onto the citizens. The town has already totally died since i was a kid and we had 5 to a Dollar, and festivals, and music every weekend. Anyone who has tried to revitalize has met such resistance that there is not a point any more. The blossom run which has come to Summerland for years will not be coming this year, action fest is a shadow of its former self, no more taste of Summerland, no real culture. If that is what people want, then cool, maybe I am the minority that preferred the old Summerland. How did they get the old Summerland? Well there were all these farms and orchards there....... yeah, your house is very likely built on great usable "farm" land, but now that you are here that's it? Great attitude, our future grandchildren living in Calgary because they cant afford to live in Summerland thank you, I'm sure.

[antelee]

Drove out to the Easter Train today...drove by both Billboard signs spray painted AGAIN. One said JANICE IS CORRUPT and the cement barrier in the middle of the road was sprayed with the same words. So dissapointing, I am anxious to have this ordeal over with. And to those wondering why people don't want to identify themselves when in favour, I hope this gives them a better understanding: this is not how adults behave. Bullying and vandalism are NOT supporting your cause in opposition.

Toto: The silent majority are silent because they have been intimidated into keeping their opinions to themselves. My family has lived in Summerland since the 1960s. My in laws even longer - the 50s. I know orchardists/farmers who will not express their thoughts for fear of retaliation.

[antelee]

I don't think it's the entire group either, I just feel restless about the proposal and voting going to the ALC so this can be finished. There's likely no proof of who did it (although I am hoping there is a slight chance of a trail cam or something up there that could have caught a glimpse of WHO did it, considering this is the second time) but the message is clear that the individual/individuals are against the proposal. Stop the Swap members or not doesn't matter to me anymore.
With this new round of vandalism I am ashamed to admit I'm feeling nervous about getting up and speaking at the next meeting. I don't want my buisness or property vandalized in retaliation...nor my friends or family to feel intimidated. This is such a frustrating situtation to be in.

How many more people do you think feel the same way? The Mayor and Council will not be intimidated and they WILL send the application to the ALC! Believe me, telephone calls and letters have gone to them from people expressing their agreement with the Swap! Not all people have to make spectacles of themselves.

[rkillick]

I'm with you there antelee, i have talked to many supporters in person but due to owning a local business, or the fear of property damage in retaliation they are hesitant to speak up. Plus a lot of these types of people are not very politically correct and may hurt their own cause by being a bit too honest with the stop-the-swappers at these meetings....

I am still waiting for a member of that group to explain to me how to profitably farm on the land in question. I know they have no idea of the economics behind the things that they say and it is frustrating that when I ask for them to explain what their comment meant that they go another direction.

I have been told that they should "sell the land to someone who will use it" so lets start with that. Has this land increased or decreased in value in the last 10 years? What type of farming is allowed to be done on it? Is there any possible way for this allowable farming to be profitable? Break down the numbers for me if yes. What are the local bylaws regarding these uses? How does "farm status" work? How much does it cost to establish an orchard in an area with no trees? When is the break even point of said orchard using a 5 acre plot as an example?

Do you know the answer to even one of these questions? I would think not. That is why is is hard to be on the other side, and be informed, and see people who are either uninformed or lying shouting the loudest and convincing people who are unwilling to do any research. This isnt about growth vs no-growth, it is about reality vs a dream world.

[antelee]

I know! I'm the type of person who flies off the handle and says VERY INCORRECT WORDS. I did this on Saturday right in front of the defaced sign that said Janice perrino is corrupt. Guy in a truck said "That's right" and I called him a (insert word that means where your poo poo comes out)

[NextGen]

I have sent my letters in to City, ALC, Christy Clarke and local MP.s . I have no desire to be ridiculed in a public forums by the Stop the Swap group and many of our friends and family have faith the City will do the right thing.

I do have a college background in Economics it is a social science that studies the needs and wants of our society at large and use analysis on behavioral patterns both at the Macro and Micro level to determine the relative outcomes of things. Now at some point whether 5 years or 10 years land will have to come out of the ALR, it is inevitable. A general consensus is that we all want to protect the ALR but a majority knows that we also have to progress in a sustainable, healthy plan towards Summerland's future. This location is the most logical and ideal for both cost effectiveness and social aspect and proper city planning for the next 50 years.

Stop the Swap has made slanderous accusations about personal agenda's and profits to be had towards City Staff and Mayor and Council members. There is ABSOLUTELY NO such proof of these accusations in any shape or form. (Believe me I researched it) If you want something to discuss and there is actual proof, Mr Finnis is probably going to be running for the NDP candidacy and his platform is going to be this ALR issue. He maybe using this debate to get votes. Be careful who you accuse, "When you point one finger, there are three fingers pointing back to you.

Another topic I would like to cover during the public hearing a consensus or repetitive comments were made again lastnight, it was hard to listen too without falling asleep at the wheel. There was no new information brought forward by this group, Sarcasm was prevalent but isn’t clever; it’s easy and cheap, just one step above calling people names. Their arguments are the same with the exception of being more coordinated. I was displeased by some comments, one in particular bothered and rattled me. This gentleman said that he is against the Proposal, he definitely does not want low affordable housing in our community of Summerland for it will bring down the value of his current home. He's about to retire and he wants to sell his home and he does not want these possible future affordable housing infringing on his profit of selling. That comment was completely selfish on many levels of our social dynamics of this community. Maybe the wealthy don’t want the middle income infringing on there property values, how disgusting is that? I am happy that he gets to retire and recalling his zone and area of his home value of these properties are over approximately 800,000 to 900,000. I am sure that this gentleman will not starve or need a food bank. Shame on such selfish behavior and comments.

Summerland can not close the doors on diversity in the economic sector of society we all deserve homes, we all need jobs and we need money to feed our families. I support the proposal, we need to progress and plan in healthy way so that we can serve ALL Summerland residents and not just our farmers and our wealthy retirees.

[antelee]

So, as well as CAVE, we have NIMBY, also!
That "gentleman" should look around and notice the low income people who are serving him in a restaurant, gas station, bar, hair salon, cleaning his house, cutting his lawn etc. Where does he think they should live? On the street? Maybe line up each morning waiting for a job?

[NextGen]

So, as well as CAVE, we have NIMBY, also!
That "gentleman" should look around and notice the low income people who are serving him in a restaurant, gas station, bar, hair salon, cleaning his house, cutting his lawn etc. Where does he think they should live? On the street? Maybe line up each morning waiting for a job?

Interesting Acronym and Bang On NIMBY, and NIMBYISM, is 'not in my back yard'. This expression describes the attitudes of people who vehemently oppose proposed zoning or proposed building development for reasons that are purely selfish or snobby. Nimbies often know that the proposal has benefits to the greater public, but are unwilling to open up their neighborhood to be part of the proposal.

[NextGen]

Here we go again, the insults are revolting, wish we could go wild west for a day.

http://www.castanet.net/news/Penticton/113652/Dozens-speak-on-land-swap#comments

[A_Britishcolumbian]

great article, the images are perfect.

and the image 38 speakers against the swap to one for is pretty graphic as well.

the value of the forested as is seems not to be getting its value appreciated.

the personality of summerland is of a rural, almost alpine, community, in my mind. putting in high density housing would spoil the character. any high density development should replace existing structures closer to the centre of town i feel.

[twobits]

great article, the images are perfect.

And I agree, the second image is invaluable. It shows the current higher density developed lands completely and logically adjacent to the proposed future development area. Makes perfect sense on the basis of well established smart growth principles of minimizing cost of infrastructure and minimizing the need for long transportation corridors. Lower carbon foot print for the believers. If anything, this proposal promotes the preservation of Summerland as a rural farm community by discouraging the willy nilly cluster developments on non ALR parcels that is currently happening. Just look at the map and you can see them!!! They are an invitation to agri/residential conflict.
These maps should be required viewing for all Summerland residents to enable them to put into perspective what is actually being proposed so that they can understand that it actually makes perfect sense. The city should have provided these google map photos rather than the 2 dimensional zoning maps that mean nothing to people.

http://www.castanet.net/news/Penticton/ ... -land-swap

[NextGen]

My thoughts on this are, Erin and this group are not speaking on behalf of us Summerland Residents, They have been able to manipulate the Summerland Review and Penticton Herald in their favor but at least Castanet is being fair to both sides.

I was not going to speak due to the second round of vandalism from this group and subject myself to ridicule like their past performances at any public gathering. Believe me there is a lot of letters that have been sent to the city and the ALC that are for the proposal.

Another ongoing conflict is this Stop The Swap petition they keep using in all new articles, debates and public engagements. We would like to personally challenge Erin and her group to follow this process so we can see where these numbers are actually coming from and the validity of this e-petition. If they are not concerned they should be more than happy to comply.

An e-petition is a petition that is signed online. E-petitions have the ability to gather far more signatures than a petition that has to be taken around by hand, but its accuracy is now being questioned. Currently E-Petions are now being investigated due to the fact that there is conflict and manipulation online numbers and stats could be very flawed. Legislation is finding different processes to allow or accept E-Petitions.

The Legislative Assembly Standing Orders Committee has recommended a process for the collection of signatures on an e-petition. The person initiating the e-petition would fill in a form similar to paper petitions. This request form would need to be signed by a member of the Clerks Office. The Clerk would check the validity of the petition and, if it is in order, arrange for it to be put online.

When the e-petition closes, the Clerk’s Office would check signatures for validity. Copy of the petition and signatures will be printed and presented to the City. It will contain names and addresses but not email addresses. The House of Representatives Standing Committee on Petitions has also been investigating the implementation of a system of e-petitions. The validity is in question, so we too should question this particular petition Form the Stop the Swap group.

[0gopogo]

I know 6 people that want their names off the Stop the Swap petition they signed at the park. They don't like the vandalism they're causing on the signs. Can't say I blame them....

[A_Britishcolumbian]

by 0gopogo » Today, 1:00 am

I know 6 people that want their names off the Stop the Swap petition they signed at the park. They don't like the vandalism they're causing on the signs. Can't say I blame them...

maybe they should just stop vandalizing the signs then, or you could report them ogopogo, as you know who 'they' are. good to have that info though, that is that the vandals are people that signed the stop the swap petition and have now changed their minds.

twobits, you say the swap makes "Makes perfect sense on the basis of well established smart growth principles", so i did a little looking into these principles you refer to.

i will not speak of agenda 21, but i would guess that most anyone aware of it is against it.

according to http://www.smartgrowth.bc.ca/ "Open, green spaces near urban areas provide scenic landscapes, recreation opportunities, and contribute to our enjoyment of BC’s outdoors", "A healthy agricultural sector helps diversify the provincial economy" and "Local food production reduces our dependence on imported foods and associated costs and impacts".

as well the smart growth agenda calls for local government to "Provide no support for ALR exclusion, subdivision, or non-farm use applications" and "Set up minimum lot sizes that are large enough to discourage subdivisions (minimum of 8 hectares)".

they say citizens should "Hold a meeting to discuss threats to local farmland and strategies to protect it", "Circulate a petition stating your opposition to the loss of farmland", and "Make a presentation to your local council" all of which has been done in this case.

so it would seem that your assertion that the swap would be in accordance with smart growth principles would be wrong, or at least misleading. i am sure you could lift info from smart growth that would support your position if you tried.

regarding growth in general, which the so called "silent majority" claims is their agenda, is growth, as in size or population, really what the majority of summerlanders would like?