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Let's heat the KVR trail for all-season riding

South Okanagan topics including Summerland, Naramata, Penticton, Okanagan Falls, Oliver, Osoyoos, and Keremeos.

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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all-season riding

Postby hoot » Nov 19th, 2012, 11:54 am

Never ridden an ATV, thank you very much.


really?

And yet judging by the 'eloquence" of your posts, I would have thought otherwise.
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all-season riding

Postby LeadingEdgeGlass » Nov 19th, 2012, 1:24 pm

Even without riding them, I am wholly against taking away a person's freedom to use one, they look very enjoyable and I wish to have one eventually!

This thread is LOL though!
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all-season riding

Postby hoot » Nov 19th, 2012, 1:45 pm

I am wholly against taking away a person's freedom to use one


Me too, but we are discussing mixing motorized vehicles with walkers, cyclists and horse riders on the KVR. ….at least that was my impression. There are whole mountains worth of terrain for these people to take their vehicles ........
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all-season riding

Postby ToddT » Nov 20th, 2012, 8:18 am

hoot wrote:
Bahaha who would have thought "Hoot" would be a hippie?!
Bwahahahaha, you can't be serious???


Expected responses from the dopes that drive ATVs. Not surprising.

I was merely responding to an ATV fanatic who made the ludicrous claim that, and I quote:

The average dirt bike or ATV uses a comparable amount of fuel as a lawn mower.


Which, by any stretch of the imagination, is total and utter horse doo doo.

Now instead of attacking me, why not respond to the facts I have posted, and defend your “hobby”. Or perhaps ,as I suspect it is indefensible?


Never ridden one either Hoot. But again, they don't bother me, and I don't think they damage the environment any more than an extremely fuel efficient vehicle.
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all-season riding

Postby hoot » Nov 20th, 2012, 8:59 am

I don't think they damage the environment any more than an extremely fuel efficient vehicle.


I wouldn't have thought so either , but on the website provided by an ATV enthusiast , it clearly states one ATV spews as much pollution in an hour as 30 , count them thirty, motor vehicles. !

Not my figures his.
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all-season riding

Postby XT225 » Nov 20th, 2012, 11:41 am

Well, I wonder how any of you who are against motorized vehicles on the KVR cut their lawns? If its pollution that you are concerned about, better get yourselves an electric or push mower..lol.

According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), a new gas powered lawn mower produces volatile organic compounds and nitrogen oxides emissions air pollution in in in one hour of operation as 11 new cars each being driven for one hour.
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all-season riding

Postby ToddT » Nov 20th, 2012, 11:45 am

Actually I've noticed hippies are cutting their lawns less and less these days.
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all-season riding

Postby hoot » Nov 20th, 2012, 2:22 pm

produces volatile organic compounds and nitrogen oxides emissions air pollution in in in one hour of operation as 11 new cars each being driven for one hour
.

I wouldn't doubt it, but that's still less than half the exhaust emissions of one ATV, and to some, lawnmowers are a necessity, whereas ATVs are not.

Of course if everyone bought a goat..........
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all-season riding

Postby OffRoad » Nov 20th, 2012, 4:25 pm

hoot wrote:I wouldn't have thought so either , but on the website provided by an ATV enthusiast , it clearly states one ATV spews as much pollution in an hour as 30 , count them thirty, motor vehicles. !

Not my figures his.

One two-stroke ATV spews as much pollution in an hour as 30 automobiles.

A four-stroke ATV spews as much as about 13 automobiles by the looks of it.

Of course, the "automobile" in this case is probably referencing today's regulations for emissions and there are lots of automobiles on the road built to lower standards and autos with modified emission systems.
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all-season riding

Postby twobits » Nov 21st, 2012, 6:16 am

And cars probably out number ATV's 1000/1 and out number in operational hours 100,000/1. Yes I pulled those numbers out of a hat but doubt they are that wrong. Point is, using the emmissions output of ATV's as a reason to ban them from the KVR trail is nothing but a red herrring.....they are not illegal vehicles. The only valid argument I can see is that of trail degridation and while most are responsible riders there are unfortunately some select yahoo's that take great pleasure in spinning tight doughnuts and carving trenches with their tires to see how big a roostertail of debris they can launch behind them. Dirt bikes included. If these testosterone fueled users could somehow be controlled I don't think there would be any user conflict. Question is, how do you control those few that spoil it for all.
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all-season riding

Postby Rwede » Nov 21st, 2012, 7:17 am

hoot wrote:
produces volatile organic compounds and nitrogen oxides emissions air pollution in in in one hour of operation as 11 new cars each being driven for one hour
.

I wouldn't doubt it, but that's still less than half the exhaust emissions of one ATV, and to some, lawnmowers are a necessity, whereas ATVs are not.

Of course if everyone bought a goat..........



Lawnmowers are a necessity? No, you CHOOSE to mow lawn, as there are alternatives available, just as I choose to take my family for an ATV ride so we can get out and enjoy the wilderness. Hypocrites suck.
You are not stupid, I just think you have bad luck when thinking.

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But that is not unusual."
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all-season riding

Postby totoramona » Nov 21st, 2012, 11:53 am

Hypocrites do suck! My point exactly!

Having a manicured lawn is a choice, just as riding a recreational vehicle out into the wilderness is. I am not making a judgement on the validity of either choice, but to characterize off-road vehicles as "pollution spewing" machines, as hoot does, is hypocritical. He is villainizing dirtbikes and ATV's unjustifiably.
Here are some more figures:
First: US Nationwide Nonroad CO2 Emissions in 2007: Non-road Sector: CO2 tons/year Percent Total

Lawn and Garden Equipment 26,212,514 11.9%
Recreational Equipment 10,347,620 4.7%

Similarily, Statewide Annual Average Emissions for California based on CARB’s OFFROAD2007 Model, finds emissions of CO2 per year by sector to be:

Lawn and Garden Equipment 613,299
Recreational Equipment 161,357

full document here:
http://ag.ca.gov/cms_attachments/press/pdfs/n1522_finaldraftnonroadpetition3.pdf

So it looks like keeping up with the Jones's in lawn care dumps two to four times the amount of CO2 into our environment than heading out into the wilderness on an off-road vehicle does. Hoot, you are picking on the wrong crowd.
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all-season riding

Postby Rwede » Nov 21st, 2012, 1:22 pm

ATVers pour millions into our economy and taxes to pay for recreational trails. The Birkenstock hiking crowd contributes far, far less in comparison.
You are not stupid, I just think you have bad luck when thinking.

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But that is not unusual."
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all-season riding

Postby tootall23 » Nov 22nd, 2012, 5:57 pm

I grew up in Naramata and have enjoyed the KVR many times. I am old enough to remember the trains rolling up the hills.
There are many interest groups and I haven't seen any problems when I drove the route to Kelowna and back. Leave well enough alone. I totally support continued access for all groups to this great treasure.The hikers drive up Smethurst Rd to get to their starting point spewing exhaust from their expensive SUV as they go. Don't see how they are any better or more entitled than the rest of the users.
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Re: Let's heat the KVR trail for all-season riding

Postby XT225 » Nov 22nd, 2012, 6:24 pm

tootall23 wrote:I grew up in Naramata and have enjoyed the KVR many times. I am old enough to remember the trains rolling up the hills.
There are many interest groups and I haven't seen any problems when I drove the route to Kelowna and back. Leave well enough alone. I totally support continued access for all groups to this great treasure.The hikers drive up Smethurst Rd to get to their starting point spewing exhaust from their expensive SUV as they go. Don't see how they are any better or more entitled than the rest of the users.



Well said; well said! I would be in favor of a ban on motorized vehicles to certain areas of the KVR such as the Little Tunnel but as far as I know there is no other way to get there other than the KVR. If someone wants to build a new path for motorized users that would allow them access to these important spots (like the little tunnel, Adra, rock ovens, etc) then that would be different. There is a way to get to the Adra by going up Smethurst to Km. 3, and taking a short bypass trail to the bottom end of the tunnel. Shortcuts like that would be fine but car access doesnt work on trails like that. I do feel sorry for any seniors or handicapped persons who might soon lose access. This Govt will be GONE come May 2013 anyways, so lets take them to court and stall it til then. Not sure on the NDP feelings on it but what we need is a "Government who will listen", period. This minister of BC Trails appears to have his mind made up and not listening. Perhaps threats of voting NDP might wake him up? ps: Ive ridden the KVR on bikes, hiked it, and on motorized vehicles and have never seen a conflict between users. We mustn't let the bullies win this one. Everyone deserves access. Please sign the petition.
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