1991 Riots

[fluffy]

From what I recall my parents telling me back when there were roadblocks, the RCMP were confiscating glass bottled beer/booze only, as there was a ban on selling alcohol in glass bottles through a specific portion of the summer in Penticton.

I also believe it was possible to have your alcohol returned at a later date. The roadblocks were temporary measures as the underground buzz out of town was "Hey are you going up to Penticton for the riot?"

[Static]

Penticton would boom if residents allowed the town to return to a summer party hot spot again. I know hotel and shop owners that would agree. The trick is to not allow everyone to meet in one area like a concert, allow bars open until 5AM so people leave on their own accord, have family only areas at beaches heavily enforced, and have zero tolerance for bad behavior. But, this will never happen because of the grey hair citizens in the town. Too bad.

[fluffy]

There are legalities involved if cops, council and business owners openly turn a blind eye to what is basically illegal behavior, talking about drinking to excess and open drug use. As soon as they give tacit approval to this then they become responsible for its results, stuff like injury, property damage, even death. The question is do we really want the sort of party spot reputation that we know is going to attract troublemakers?

[Static]

There are legalities involved if cops, council and business owners openly turn a blind eye to what is basically illegal behavior, talking about drinking to excess and open drug use. As soon as they give tacit approval to this then they become responsible for its results, stuff like injury, property damage, even death. The question is do we really want the sort of party spot reputation that we know is going to attract troublemakers?

We used to have that reputation and local business prospered. Very few partiers are troublemakers, and those that are tend not to need partying as an excuse to be one.

[fluffy]

We used to have that reputation and local business prospered.

A lot has changed around drinking laws in the last twenty years. How would you get past the laws we have in place now for public drunkeness, over-serving etc.?

There's also the aspect that the overly permissive "party town" reputation was in part responsible for the decline in family campers.

I just really have to wonder if the party crowd would be worth the money they bring to town?

[Corneliousrooster]

How would you get past the laws we have in place now for public drunkeness, over-serving etc.?

Ever been to a nightclub on a Friday night? Check out the patrons leaving and tell me 90% of them were not over served.....

Ever been to the channel to see what is getting out of their tubes at the end? Heck, you could probably semi retire off the empties floating along the banks.

Ever been to the Mr. Muscle/bikini contest in the beer gardens in the blazing hot sun? I think blind eyes are turned plenty in many instances....

[fluffy]

Ever been to a nightclub on a Friday night? Check out the patrons leaving and tell me 90% of them were not over served.....

Ever been to the channel to see what is getting out of their tubes at the end? Heck, you could probably semi retire off the empties floating along the banks.

Ever been to the Mr. Muscle/bikini contest in the beer gardens in the blazing hot sun? I think blind eyes are turned plenty in many instances....

So what's the problem then? Do we need more, or less?

[CTF]

Ever been to the channel to see what is getting out of their tubes at the end? Heck, you could probably semi retire off the empties floating along the banks.
...

That is true...I knew a retired pensioner who was making car payments off the cans and bottles collected around the channel and a few other places.

[mexi cali]

I know that this addresses only one aspect of the problem but I think that it is worth saying. We go to Mexico a lot and there, you can carry a drink with you basically anywhere. Myself and my BIL take advantage of this by buying the coldest beer we can find and enjoying these icy beverages as we walk around enjoying the scenery.

One thing I have never seen is drunken behavior exhibited by anyone, ever. Locals don't seem to imbibe this way and usually, the only ones you see with drinks in their hands are gringos.

Here on the other hand, it is obviously illegal to do so yet many try and we have incidents of drunken behavior regularly.

Perhaps the puritanical and archaic views of our government have made it so that it is akin to telling a child that they "cannot" do something or go somewhere which of course only makes the thought of defying the authority more attractive?

I am not trying to say that revisiting our views on the consumption and openness of alcohol is the answer or even an answer but it seems to me that there must be a connection between the iron grip with which the Feds hold our Victorian liquor laws in and the idiocy of so many who push the limits in public?

I do however think that we should retool our laws regarding alcohol to bring us more in step with many other countries in the world.

Just ask any tourist from Germany or the Ukraine or the UK what they think of our cut offs and even the availability. To them, it's inconvenient and down right strange.

[fluffy]

Or maybe the "cause and effect"thing flows the other way? I have watched our liquor laws grow more relaxed over the last few decades, from Sunday openings to outdoor licensing to increased availabilty through private outlets. The restrictions we do see seem to come as a result of those who abuse the system, drinking drivers for instance. It is worth noting as you say, that countries with very relaxed alcohol laws don't seem to have as many problems as we do but they have the behefit of having had those laws in place for generations. Do you think we are ready for that level of freedom?

[mexi cali]

Not overnight but as they say, every journey begins with a single step.

Our liquor laws are outdated and need to be addressed and it will take time but change is necessary IMHO.

[bipdl]

Simply making alcohol easier to obtain is an entirely different ball of wax than making it easier to enjoy.

It's one thing to relax availability laws, quite another to relax Victorian era consumption laws and their enforcement.

When everyone is drinking to beat the clock because the boom gets lowered shortly after everyone is just getting into the evening, you're bound to have problems! All the more so when you then try and tell people they're now required "under penalty of law" to settle down and quietly go home... all at exactly the same time. That is basically a curfew.

During visits to Quebec, it never ceases to amaze me about just how anal we are out here in the west when it comes to all things alcohol. I'm not saying drunkenness in La Belle Province doesn't exist... it most certainly does. But the fact that police don't hassle people as long as they remain civilized and happy in public (not disturbing the peace), plus the fact that you can basically bar hop any time you like (24/7) means there is a really laid back attitude among drinkers. The atmosphere is one of relaxed enjoyment, take-it-easy-and-pace-yourself, and, drink for the pleasure it adds to the whole social experience that ends when you decide you wish to call it quits (not; drink to get drunk because the clock is ticking). I've been with friends when we left a bar as the sun was coming up, and none of us were "pasted", much less unruly... just tired and ready to go home quietly. In Quebec, a dozen bottles costs $12.95 out of the fridge at virtually all the corner stores and it's perfectly OK for you to BYO beer into any McDonald's and wash down your Big Mac with it!

By contrast, I remember a while back being told in an Alberta "cabaret" that it was unlawful for me to carry my own beer to a different table, and that only a waitress was allowed to hold a beer while standing up! That was not just silly... it was utterly insane!

If our laws are going to treat otherwise responsible adults like children, then some adults are going to act out... just like (you guessed it) some children, and throw a tantrum. What do we expect?

The wise thing to do is to look at other alcohol serving jurisdictions where problems are less prevalent, and emulate them.

Loosen up the ol' pucker strings, Victoria!

(Note: I remain in BC only because Victoria allows us to make right-hand turns on red lights... not allowed in Quebec!) :-)

[Ken7]

bipdl-What I've wondered for all these years is; How or why is it legal for police to confiscate legally obtained and legally transported beer from everyone entering the city? That's what actually happened during the RCMP roadblocks on HWY 97 both north and south of Penticton.

I'd suggest if you are not taking it from point of purchase to a legal place to consume it. If the response to the officer was we are just going to town to see what's happening, it may be seized as you have no legal destination to consume it. Must go from point A-B. B - Legal place to consume it.

Just a educated guess.

This may answer other questions..




http://www.pssg.gov.bc.ca/lclb/LLinBC/basics.htm

[fluffy]

The wise thing to do is to look at other alcohol serving jurisdictions where problems are less prevalent, and emulate them.

I wonder if there is a cultural difference in the attitudes toward drinking in general in the less problematic places you mention. Locally you have business such as night clubs, pubs, lounges etc, as well as dedicated liquor stores where alcohol consumption is the main focus, in some cases the only focus. As opposed to places where alcohol is always available in conjunction with other things like food and groceries. It's like drinking is an activity unto itself in these places and not something that accompanies other activities.

[bipdl]

I wonder if there is a cultural difference in the attitudes toward drinking in general in the less problematic places you mention.

BINGO!!!

Maybe that's why Quebecers see themselves as a "distinct society". :-)

We here in the west are such a bunch of uptight party-poops that we've even enshrined into laws the sort of Orwellian nonsense that Ken 7 describes and enforces. Consider the drinking laws in Saskatchewan for instance... absolutely unbelievable!!! Makes one wonder what year it is... 1902 or 2013?

Nevertheless, whenever you prime a bunch of exuberant people with copious amounts of alcohol, congregate them all into a confined area at the same time, then decree their fun is over and insist they settle down and act sober, you're bound to have problems. In the case of the '91 riots, the shopkeepers payed the price while the bar owners laughed all the way to their banks, and the ensuing, overbearing annual reaction profoundly tarnished Penticton's status as a desirable family vacation destination.

Now, in our retirement years, my wife and I are not even permitted to sit quietly on a Lakeshore Drive park bench and watch the sunset after 11 p.m.. Sad really.