1991 Riots

[logman]

Have you been to a concert or any public gathering of young people? The centre of gravity for example ? The people are drunk.
Oh ya....,and on drugs of all sorts.

[fluffy]

Have you been to a concert or any public gathering of young people? The centre of gravity for example ? The people are drunk.
Oh ya....,and on drugs of all sorts.

Yes I have, and I was right in there with the rest of them drunk and stoned. I also spent a number of years in the alcohol service industry. My opinion is well thought out and not likely to be changed by someone saying that we should loosen up and let the kids have their fun, because those kind of situations can get out of control too easily.

A question: Since the "crackdown" in Penticton and Kelowna, where is the big hangout these days for people who want to party?

[Anonymous123]

Police presence was always concentrated at potential trouble spots, usually later in the evening and always near night clubs or beach firepits, not areas you would find family campers frequenting.

Not quite true fluff. Returning from a quick trip to Vancouver on the Friday afternoon of the 92 May long weekend, my friend and I were directed into a roadblock at the Kaleden weigh scales. All vehicles were directed to do so. Despite being Penticton residents and having proof of residency, our car and luggage was completely searched and an unopened case of Extra Old Stock was confiscated. My friend was directed into a trailer on site where he had to strip down to his underwear in a search for contraband. He had none nor was there ever any reason to suspect he did. We were in our early 20's and obvious targets but during the ordeal I witnessed many thirty and forty something couples getting similar shakedowns and liquor confiscations. I look back on it now as rather a surreal and draconian tactic that most surely left a very bad taste in many tourists mouths and a vow to never return. I know I would not have.

The twenty-something's from those riots are now the forty-something's with families today. They are not going to Penticton. A lot of them vacation in Osoyoos now.

[Midnite]

I am from the 80s-90s party crowd as well and I would suggest Mexican All inclusives are now the desired destination. Very popular and always a good time.

[fluffy]

The twenty-something's from those riots are now the forty-something's with families today. They are not going to Penticton. A lot of them vacation in Osoyoos now.

That was mentioned in anothern thread. Osoyoos has what Penticton has lost, plentiful campgrounds, family atmosphere, small town hospitality. It will be interesting to watch as the development craze is upon them as well, people are flocking there and property values are climbing.

[asas]

P99....read your post, shake your head and read it again! No normal citizen will say DRUNKS DESTROY to give POLICE A MESSAGE! What kind of dribble is that??
You were there...sober or drunk....? You say you saw what happened, but did you see everything that the 2000 plus people were doing? Of course not!
Armchair experts on crowd control are an amazing lot when you consider their experience on crowd control does not exist. You have never dealt with 'crowd mentality' fueled by alcohol etc., a scenario well documented by science around the world.
Mistakes were made from councils decision to allow alcohol, drugs and partiers to roam around until the excesses were destructive, and police definitely wish they had reacted quicker in the evening with the hope of "heavy handed" tactics not being required. To say that police want to be heavy handed in a large crowd again indicates a lack of common sense or experience. Very few people in any circumstance want to poke the bear let alone police that are numbered 200-300 to 1.

Save anti police rants for another time. Your Pentiction police did as best they could under the circumstances and were told what to do in following years as decided by your council and police supervisors from Vancouver etc. Police do not get up in the morning and decide to pummel Penticton residents. They react to what they are faced with while following the instructions from their supervisors based on the complete history, not someone's unique opinion based on no experience and a axe to grind!
Where's my coffee????

[bipdl]

What I've wondered for all these years is; How or why is it legal for police to confiscate legally obtained and legally transported beer from everyone entering the city? That's what actually happened during the RCMP roadblocks on HWY 97 both north and south of Penticton.

It's not as though there was any sort of "zero-tolerance" thing against booze during that time as all the drinking establishments were open and gladly cashing-in on all the arriving business. So it leaves one wondering who mandated the zealously enforced "no booze will be permitted to arrive in Penticton bound vehicles" edict. Seems to me that that set a pretty unwelcoming tone for all who got shaken down on the roadside and relieved of their perfectly payed-for and legitimately owned property.

I have also subsequently witnessed, first hand and up close, exactly how heavy handedly a visiting RCMP member treated a completely peaceable and otherwise perfectly happy, slightly inebriated pedestrian who happened to be carrying a sealed can of beer in the pocket of his cargo shorts, so don't try and tell me the police are simply doing their jobs as ordered. The Nuremberg Defense failed to absolve brutes from their unconscionable behaviour over half a century ago, yet the principle seems still to be repeatedly and conveniently ignored by police-state proponents to this very day.

Machiavellian rule requires Machiavellian enforcement, and vice versa. So who's tail wagged the dog during those heady years that collapsed Penticton tourism?

[fluffy]

I don't deny that there are cops on the force who really shouldn't be there, but I think the gun-and-badge thing tends to attract that alpha male type and their psyche screening often fails to weed out potential screw-ups. I also believe that there are lots of people who drink who really shouldn't and when you pair up a shouldn't-drink with a shouldn't-cop then you are bound to have a disaster. The thing is when a shouldn't-cop surfaces it makes the national news while most shouldn't-drinkers just go on drinking while we look the other way.

[asas]

Just to be fair and clear. I am not aware of any legal ground for police to sieze unopened liquor as writers are describing. If that occurred, I am certain they are in violation of provincial and federal statutes.
As to the visiting goof you describe.....all forces, businesses, political parties etc have idiots that either cannot handle the pressure or choose to be stupid. We cannot codone this but we cannot paint all members, employees and pundits with the same brush. Without a doubt there are police that should not be police and even the supervisors are not the all knowing saints they would have you believe, but in general they do a good job despite having everything they do reviewed and commented upon by people who do not have the skills or knowledge to review and comment.

Unless you are willing to face thousands of unruly people and tell them to go home, do not judge from an armchair and make comments that crush your credibility.
Too late for coffee...damn....

[workthatwedo]

From what I recall my parents telling me back when there were roadblocks, the RCMP were confiscating glass bottled beer/booze only, as there was a ban on selling alcohol in glass bottles through a specific portion of the summer in Penticton.

[mexi cali]

unopened case of Extra Old Stock was confiscated.

Man, you drank that stuff? They did you a favor. The only reason anyone ever drank EOS was the alcohol content. I remember it was very strong tasting and not worth the quicker buzz.

[process99]

P99....read your post, shake your head and read it again! No normal citizen will say DRUNKS DESTROY to give POLICE A MESSAGE! What kind of dribble is that??
You were there...sober or drunk....? You say you saw what happened, but did you see everything that the 2000 plus people were doing? Of course not!
Armchair experts on crowd control are an amazing lot when you consider their experience on crowd control does not exist. You have never dealt with 'crowd mentality' fueled by alcohol etc., a scenario well documented by science around the world.
Mistakes were made from councils decision to allow alcohol, drugs and partiers to roam around until the excesses were destructive, and police definitely wish they had reacted quicker in the evening with the hope of "heavy handed" tactics not being required. To say that police want to be heavy handed in a large crowd again indicates a lack of common sense or experience. Very few people in any circumstance want to poke the bear let alone police that are numbered 200-300 to 1.

Save anti police rants for another time. Your Pentiction police did as best they could under the circumstances and were told what to do in following years as decided by your council and police supervisors from Vancouver etc. Police do not get up in the morning and decide to pummel Penticton residents. They react to what they are faced with while following the instructions from their supervisors based on the complete history, not someone's unique opinion based on no experience and a axe to grind!
Where's my coffee????

I will not even bother to enter into your dribble. I am far from anti police , you don't know me or anything about me.
The Penticton police did exactly the wrong thing. I was there I saw what , who and where. again DID YOU? I also had a scanner as I have for years so I even know who called what and when. DO YOU?
Counsel made a mistake, no they didn't unless you call allowing peachfest to actually take place as that's what has happened every year for many years, until they forced the crowd into a no exit situation and then started handing out beatings here and there. Your dang rights they got the crowd upset and YES they did what they did because the police did what they did. AKA THE MSG TO POLICE.(BTW since you appear to have NO idea what peach fest used to be about. HERE. It was a giant week long *bleep* up with all goodies drugs ? sex ? rock n roll all week long. So your comments about partiers and drugs ect is completely wrong.Peach Fest used to be known Canada wide as the best summer party in BC..It held this title for many years.
Notice that when the Vancouver riot started they did NOT do any of these things that were done here and it payed off as the damage would have been far worse as there were many more bodies as well as the injuries would have been worse.
They did the correct thing and de escalated the situation by not jamming 50k drunks into a no way out area , they did not dish out random beatings. So in the end the useless twags that started that mess simply got tired went away and a while later were picked up and arrested and charged.
A very different approach to the exact same scenario with MORE people. It was handled properly. The Penticton event WAS NOT handled properly.

Your attempt at trying to make me out to be something I am not has failed and left you the fool. ask around.

oh and against my better judgement I will give you this tidbit. THEY the RCMP were told to disperse the crowd and move some of them away from downtown.
Their answer, block all roads , fire tear gas and herd all 10k plus down to city park with nowhere to go shoulder to shoulder, then proceed to begin arresting those who refuse? to leave. Funny hey NO ONE COULD LEAVE. The line of police prevented anyone from leaving so you got told to leave said where do I go? and got thumped for it..
People will only deal with crap like that for so long , then someone gets hurt, oddly enough that's exactly what happened. Go figure EH?
So really unless you were PRESENT and Listening with a scanner or a member in uniform you really are the armchair quarterback.
tooodles

P99

[fluffy]

In hindsight there are lots of things that could have been done, or should not have been done that may have prevented the mayhem of that particular night but the only real fool proof plan would be to not get into a situation where you have hundreds of drunks in one place. The larger the crowd, the better the odds that you will have no minds who push the limits of the situation. I was there too, I saw the loudmouths taunting the cops, pushing and pushing without a moment's thought as to just how the situation was going to play out. Did the cops out of hand themselves, I bet they did. But they sure as hell didn't do it without provocation.

[process99]

In hindsight there are lots of things that could have been done, or should not have been done that may have prevented the mayhem of that particular night but the only real fool proof plan would be to not get into a situation where you have hundreds of drunks in one place. The larger the crowd, the better the odds that you will have no minds who push the limits of the situation. I was there too, I saw the loudmouths taunting the cops, pushing and pushing without a moment's thought as to just how the situation was going to play out. Did the cops out of hand themselves, I bet they did. But they sure as hell didn't do it without provocation.

That's 100 percent correct. But keep in mind the police were of sound mind and body and no one else was.
They were supposed to be smarter than the drunks and herd them home or where ever without the clubs and pepper and tear gas.
The crowds of drunks all started in the clubs as we had a nice selection of nite clubs back then, a controlled release or extended hours would have gone a long way to preventing a huge bar flush combined with 5000 tourists and locals all party hardy.
No worries now, you can not get enough people drunk and in the Mule to cause a riot so all the do gooders will feel safe.
Too bad it came at such a high price.
Regardless I was there and I will have the memories forever, so for those of you now who wish they could have had the peachfest we had. All I can do is say I am sorry on behalf of all the idiots who destroyed what should have been grown into an international party as found in other places around the world.
We are not responsible enough to control ourselves when we drink so this is the result. You are not permitted to do anything. Problem solved.


P99

[bipdl]

I don't deny that there are cops on the force who really shouldn't be there, but I think the gun-and-badge thing tends to attract that alpha male type and their psyche screening often fails to weed out potential screw-ups. I also believe that there are lots of people who drink who really shouldn't and when you pair up a shouldn't-drink with a shouldn't-cop then you are bound to have a disaster. The thing is when a shouldn't-cop surfaces it makes the national news while most shouldn't-drinkers just go on drinking while we look the other way.

Well said! Balanced, astute and accurate.

Just to be fair and clear.

Gee, isn't that mighty good of you... condescending to all of us here.

I am not aware of any legal ground for police to sieze unopened liquor as writers are describing. If that occurred, I am certain they are in violation of provincial and federal statutes.

"IF" that occurred?? You're not from around these parts, are you? Just get transferred in? Might be a good idea to learn to first gain a little background knowledge before you wade into a conversation... any conversation!

As to the visiting goof you describe.....all forces, businesses, political parties etc have idiots that either cannot handle the pressure or choose to be stupid.

How true!

We cannot condone this...

Ahh, but the RCMP are well known for doing just so! (Although, I'm informed by KL3-something that change is afoot. We can only hope!)

...but we cannot paint all members, employees and pundits with the same brush. Without a doubt there are police that should not be police and even the supervisors are not the all knowing saints they would have you believe, but in general they do a good job...

Agreed!
And, I'm on record as saying I've had the pleasure of meeting some very fine people who also happen to be RCMP. Generally, they're all a pretty good bunch... as long as they get their way.

...despite having everything they do reviewed and commented upon by people who do not have the skills or knowledge to review and comment.

And rightly they should have "everything they do reviewed". But it appears you think nobody is worthy of forming an opinion or in any way qualified or entitled to scrutinize the RCMP.

Unless you are willing to face thousands of unruly people and tell them to go home, do not judge...

Hey, they signed up for the job... nobody held a gun to their heads... they have all the latest and best equipment... and each is perfectly free to hang up their duty belt and badge any time they want. Sorry. That line doesn't wash.

... from an armchair...

What? Can you not read? I was up-front and in-close, even worked alongside them. No armchair here. I saw what I saw!!!

... and make comments that crush your credibility.

Interesting how you use an oppressive adjective like "crush". Kinda hints at a mindset, maybe an attitude.