Challenge Penticton

[Madhue]

A huge part of this picture that we're missing is exactly why Council chose to end it's relationship with Ironman and the WTC. Something obviously went sour when the race license was transferred from Graham Fraser to the WTC and a new contract with the city was being considered. There were considerable bad feelings for the past few years with the contract fees promised to Fraser being more than doubled from $30K in 2010 to what was to be $75K for 2013.

and Whistler was happy to hand out a 100K. Because they say the economic potential.

The media coverage is scant for sure but you can't miss the sour aura around the WTC since their takeover in 2008 by international finance giant Providence Equity, especially that emanating from within the athlete community. Providence Equity is not really into long-term investing, they are a buy-grow-sell operation with average investment holding times in the six or seven year range.

Yet at the same time there is those grumblings athletes remain faithful to that name... and see it as the pinnacle of that sport. just in the participation level of triathletes alone. Ironman brand only lost around 400 competitors, while Challenge Pentciton lost just over 2000. that a huge discrepancy, however it does suggest that athletes are remaining loyal to Ironman regardless of the distemper toward the new direction.

good comparison.

It was declared that both races would be contested on the same day, the last Sunday in August, the 25th. Then it got interesting. With plans to use the same legendary Ironman course of previous years, Challenge hoped to maintain the triathlete community's intense loyalty to racing in Penticton, to the tune of nearly 3,000 registered entrants each year. But the Ironman brand also has a fiercely loyal following. Of the thousands who had been interested in racing in British Columbia in August, how many would choose Challenge, how many would choose the new Whistler Ironman?

In short: Ironman Whistler generally dominated the battle from start to finish. Some fast facts:
Registered Entrants: Challenge -- 751 (compared to nearly 3,000 in Ironman years); Whistler -- nearly 2600
Both had about 18% DNS, 7% DNF (but Challenge had an 18 hour cut-off time, though few finished after 17 hours)
Average Finishing time (as indicator of the field's competitive talent): Challenge: 13 hours 41 minutes (vs around 13 hours in Ironman years); Whistler -- 12:52)

http://www.runtri.com/2013/08/challenge ... onman.html

I'm confident that council would not simply shut the door on a world class event like Ironman without valid reason, and that they most certainly did not make the decision without due diligence in considering all the alternatives. I'm also confident that although we might be in for a period of regrouping in the end it will work out for the better for Penticton.

I think Council was not prepared for the growth in this market, they were not prepared for an event that has seen this much rapid growth in a short amount of time, and when IM began top flex their muscles they took offence and made a choice based on what they perceived as an effective alternative hoping that the venue Pentcion provided and the Volunteers were larger chips in the game, i suspect their bluff was called. As for the Volunteers Whistler met the numbers needed, and the venue? Race times were on par with Penticton, no dramatic changes, IM Whistler provided a solid event.

http://www.runtri.com/2013/06/ironman-c ... lysis.html

[Steve-O]

Kinda hard to start a new event with essentially a new brand and expect it to be world class right out of the gate. Whistler has its Olympic facilities and the IM brand so when you compare the two it is not apples to apples.

Anyways, at this point of the thread Manhue it appears to me you are simply trolling and you are still getting bites after two weeks. Good fishing eh.

[fluffy]

...and Whistler was happy to hand out a 100K.

That's the first time I've heard that figure but it does clear things up some. If WTC was demanding the same figure from Penticton then I can see why council went the way they did. There was significant local resistance to the $75K figure negotiated with Mr. Fraser and council spent a lot of time and effort defending that amount to the public, but to little avail. I can just imagine the outrage that would have broken loose if council had committed to a $100K figure. If anything at all, Pentictonites know how to whine about city council. Have they released a figure as to how much Challenge charged?

[grammafreddy]

I think that was in a thread here, Fluff, but I can't remember what it was.

[Madhue]

Kinda hard to start a new event with essentially a new brand and expect it to be world class right out of the gate. Whistler has its Olympic facilities and the IM brand so when you compare the two it is not apples to apples.

OK you may have a hard time with this however Challenge Penticton itself has labeled its self as a World Class event ...

If you are interested in working with a great crew of volunteers on a world-class event please contact:

http://www.challenge-penticton.com/careers/


Whats with the apathy? why is it posters feel we are entitled to a less than stellar event in Pentiction? I believe we are comparing apples to apples when we are comparing Ironman to Challenge.. the racers are, the organizers are, the organizations are? These guys are competitive with each other directly, Challenge taking Penticton was a feather in Challenges cap, Ironman taking Copenhagen. They are battling it out.
http://triathlon.competitor.com/2013/06 ... agen_78519

Anyways, at this point of the thread Manhue it appears to me you are simply trolling and you are still getting bites after two weeks. Good fishing eh.

more ad hominem attacks... so attack the poster not the position? Is my position that solid that you can not find holes in it?

That's the first time I've heard that figure but it does clear things up some. If WTC was demanding the same figure from Penticton then I can see why council went the way they did. There was significant local resistance to the $75K figure negotiated with Mr. Fraser and council spent a lot of time and effort defending that amount to the public, but to little avail. I can just imagine the outrage that would have broken loose if council had committed to a $100K figure. If anything at all, Pentictonites know how to whine about city council. Have they released a figure as to how much Challenge charged?

I have no idea what Challenge has requested from the City, I do suspect that Penticton was asked for a figure in the same ball park.
Which really is not that absurd, i'm not sure what IM is charging Mont Tremblant... but if they can do it don't see why we couldn't. I really wonder what the finical punch to the gut to the owners of businesses in this city on the difference... 25K investment worth losing 5-6 million in revenue...?

[dreamon]

Challenge seems like just another race in a small town.
It has little energy, almost not build up. Heck if I don't know it was on I wouldn't have known it was going on.
Ironman was electric! Challenge... Well seems dull, don't get wrong I'm glad to see so many locals enjoying the chance to participate but it's not putting Penticton on the map.
We've traded the Super Bowl for a backyard flag football game.

My opinions below are based on 20+ years of involvement with Ironman as a volunteer and minor sponsor, knowing well many of the key people involved from years ago but not latterly, having chatted to several athletes of this years race, several people who attended (I didn't) and one of the current directors.

Ironman started small and was very small town, it quickly grew based on the incredible venue for such a race, the warm hospitality of the Southern Okanagan, but not without many issues along the way including severe financial issues.
Ironman went from being a "local" flavour race to a large commercial venture. This works for some but not for others.

Ironman left us/was forced out, who knows what really happened and it no longer matters as it's behind us, the City was left scrambling to fill a void. Along comes Challenge, late in the year to be starting from scratch. Yes they had lots of experience from Ironman, but many of the organisers were new, or new to their new roles.

For a first run event that was late out of the gate, I have heard from athletes that the event was incredible, and from spectators that their is room for improvement. The director I talked to also said that they are fully aware of issues, teething problems, are open to input and are looking forward to next years race with one under their collective belts.

Rather than focus on what was, let's focus on what can be, how we can help to make Challenge Penticton the world class event it can be.

[twobits]

Madhue.........I am pretty long of tooth, been around the business block more than a few laps and can predict with certainty that your dire predictions of failure, of losing out on millions in revenue, of now hosting a second class event, declining participation, all based solely on the Ironman Brand are short sighted and naïve. It is unfortunate that only time will prove which of us is correct and by that time I am quite positive you will be under a rock somewhere looking to trash some other easy target.

I will toss out my own prediction. The Ironman brand is destined to lose it's lustre and appeal as it becomes more of corporate event grounded in profit rather than the participants.

[JagXKR]

Wow I had no idea this thread would go this way, but you know what they say about one bad apple. My point was to state the problems that were occurring at the time. They solved the problems later and I enjoyed the web site coverage.

My personal feelings regarding the succes of this event is basically a non-judgement approach. With Whistler going on the same date it would be nearly impossible to have similar success as 2012 or previous. Ridiculous to even think it would be any where close. I think 1400 is respectable given the same date and the real litmus test will be 2014. That is when it is by itself and back to the same time interval to Hawaii. Whistler may be too early for some athletes who want to do Hawaii. The 7 week recovery may be just right for some elite athletes and this may prove beneficial.

I am glad we got rid of WTC. Reasons are many and I think they have all been covered by other posters. Some people are not impressed with the whole deal and that's their perogative but myself and others are not so pessemistic about the future of Challenge. I look forward to 2014 and the more realistic test of the success of Challenge Penticton.

[Anonymous123]

Wow I had no idea this thread would go this way, but you know what they say about one bad apple. My point was to state the problems that were occurring at the time. They solved the problems later and I enjoyed the web site coverage.

My personal feelings regarding the succes of this event is basically a non-judgement approach. With Whistler going on the same date it would be nearly impossible to have similar success as 2012 or previous. Ridiculous to even think it would be any where close. I think 1400 is respectable given the same date and the real litmus test will be 2014. That is when it is by itself and back to the same time interval to Hawaii. Whistler may be too early for some athletes who want to do Hawaii. The 7 week recovery may be just right for some elite athletes and this may prove beneficial.

I am glad we got rid of WTC. Reasons are many and I think they have all been covered by other posters. Some people are not impressed with the whole deal and that's their perogative but myself and others are not so pessemistic about the future of Challenge. I look forward to 2014 and the more realistic test of the success of Challenge Penticton.

I think you may have the wrong impression with Ironman Hawaii. Ironman Canada (the race now held in Whistler) is not a practice for Ironman Hawaii, it is a qualifier. Challenge has no affiliation to Ironman Hawaii, it is merely a triathlon competition. . It may however, serve as a maintenance/practice/tune-up race for Ironman Hawaii qualifiers.
Penticton was on the world stage as a qualifier for the holy grail of ironman competition, Ironman World Championships held in Kona, Hawaii.
It seems to me that Penticton spent 30 years building up a business, just to close it and re-open under a different name. That is never good business sense, unless the business has a bad name. Ironman Canada in Penticton was lauded world-wide. I don't get it, 30 years of goodwill, gone in one decision.

Some background information:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironman_Triathlon

[driveangry]

For those of you who feel it was a success, then I'm happy for you. But all I've read is Penticton this and Penticton that. It's very irresponsible to think only of Penticton when it effects other communities. I can tell you that there is a lot people that are fed up with it. For you in Penticton, it's once a year. In Keremeos, it's almost 300 days out of a year dealing with bikes on a highway for the most part has no median for the bikers. Every year more and more bikers are are disrespecting the law, riding 2 abreast and as many as 5 abreast, not riding on the median when there is one to ride on, refusing to move over while riding in the middle of the lane. Have yet to see any of them stop at the stop sign at the intersection of 3A and 97. But at least the spray painting on the highway has stopped.

[Madhue]

Madhue.........I am pretty long of tooth, been around the business block more than a few laps and can predict with certainty that your dire predictions of failure, of losing out on millions in revenue, of now hosting a second class event, declining participation, all based solely on the Ironman Brand are short sighted and naïve. It is unfortunate that only time will prove which of us is correct and by that time I am quite positive you will be under a rock somewhere looking to trash some other easy target.

I will toss out my own prediction. The Ironman brand is destined to lose it's lustre and appeal as it becomes more of corporate event grounded in profit rather than the participants.

I'm not wet behind the ears, no spring chicken. I've attended 20+ Ironman events and volunteered in just about every aspect of the race other than the organization piece, specifically in the Medical and Swimming and Bike Transition stages. (I'm not sure we have to give the ramble about our ages and histories but for some reason its assumed that folks around here lend Instant Credibility to such things... so I'll play along)



Twobits......... What I know about big business, Right Now Ironman Canada has thrown down the gauntlet in being the dominating Iron-distance Triathlon event in Canada. The response has been weak from Challenge. In big business you are Leader and a Innovator or you are Absorbed or Discarded. I guess that's why we don't have any music stores in the Mall or a local video store.... hence I find your response patronizing and antiquated.

Fact is folks once we get over this whole touchy feely people will love our event for its personality lets look at the facts, Whistler and its local Business partners are bucking up a half million dollars plus in kind contributions. You can sing all you want about your intuition on business and so forth, but money talks... it always has. Furthermore Ironman Canada has offered 100 qualifying positions in this years event for Hawaii. 100!!! That's a huge deal to Pro triathletes. Swag Bags this years were way better than past years, IM is working to win this race between this two. Other than a warm fuzzy place in our hearts what is Penticton, or Challenge doing?


[quote="Anonymous123"
It seems to me that Penticton spent 30 years building up a business, just to close it and re-open under a different name. That is never good business sense, unless the business has a bad name. Ironman Canada in Penticton was lauded world-wide. I don't get it, 30 years of goodwill, gone in one decision.[/quote] This is a very good point, is Penticton going to be the farm team of other Cities Successes?


What I have proposed like it or not is pretty logical. Basically creating the opportunity to win back this event.

I think its rather humorous and defeatist to believe that it simply cant be done... they only signed a 5 year contract with Whistler. One year has passed, which means the year after next they will be courting options. Seriously what is flawed with suggestion? Why is it so imperative to this apathetic camp of naysayers that we just accept what ever floats our way and be grateful? Like i said Penticton is rich with Apathy.

[marooned]

I don't care what it's called, who branded it, or the history behind the squabbles that ultimately made way for Challenge. I just know that come 2015, when I want to complete a tri of that distance, I am coming to Penticton.

I don't care about Hawaii. 95% of the folks who compete don't care about Hawaii. 95% have trained for over a year to prove they can make it through the course in one piece. People aren't looking for a qualifying time in their age bracket. People don't care about the competitive average of the field.

I guess the market for those IM tattoos and socks will be way off, but I bet come next year the Penticton event will be just fine, likely double the entrants this year.

[FSmith59]

I don't care what it's called, who branded it, or the history behind the squabbles that ultimately made way for Challenge. I just know that come 2015, when I want to complete a tri of that distance, I am coming to Penticton.

I don't care about Hawaii. 95% of the folks who compete don't care about Hawaii. 95% have trained for over a year to prove they can make it through the course in one piece. People aren't looking for a qualifying time in their age bracket. People don't care about the competitive average of the field.

I guess the market for those IM tattoos and socks will be way off, but I bet come next year the Penticton event will be just fine, likely double the entrants this year.

Well said.