New proposed bike route

rustled
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by rustled »

Drat. Misspelled your handle, acbarry. My apologies.

Agree that centralized parking would be nice. Was thinking the old Three Gables would be a great location for a lovely brick building with shop frontage on Main (and some on Martin), a couple of floors of parking, and a couple floors of apartments. Not sure it's doable, and no idea where the financing would come from; just saying it might be a sensible use of that piece of land.
There is nothing more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. - Martin Luther King Jr.
southy
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by southy »

Very interesting Rustled. I don't think a story on Castanet about a meeting at Penticton City Hall can be classified as advertising. Yes, it was a newsworthy story, if you read Castanet everyday. I simply do not recall seeing anything in any of the two local newspapers IN PENTICTON!! Or hearing anything on PENTICTON radio. By the way Rustled .. where exactly is it you live? Don't think it's PENTICTON is it? Easy to say ... yes build at parkade downtown especially when the cost of said parkade won't effect you in anyway, just those PENTICTON residents. Not saying you aren't entitled to voice your opinion on this bike lane issue in Penticton but I do get my back up when someone living in say West Kelowna starts saying Penticton should be building parkades. By the way ... I also believe Mr. acberry is a big boy and can answer questions for himself. Speaking of Mr. acberry where is his response?
rustled
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by rustled »

Gee, Southy, sorry to have rubbed you the wrong way.

I could look for more news stories from September; that was just the easiest one to find. I'm quite sure there were others. They're generally all produced from the same media releases, and the papers are always looking for content.

I'm not an oldtimer here, but I have been living here in Penticton for many years. Long enough to see this pattern (outrage that "we weren't consulted") play out quite a few times.

I'm sure acbarry'll get back to us when he has time. And hey, I'm not saying "the city should build a parkade," although that might be a nice thing to partner on with the landowner. Just saying it might be a nice use of that property.
There is nothing more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. - Martin Luther King Jr.
rustled
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by rustled »

southy wrote:I simply do not recall seeing anything in any of the two local newspapers IN PENTICTON!!


You'd got me wondering if I'd been imagining things. Here are a few from the Western:
http://www.pentictonwesternnews.com/news/186384101.html
http://www.pentictonwesternnews.com/opinion/letters/214774301.html
http://www.pentictonwesternnews.com/news/141988393.html

Looks like it's been a long, ongoing process. I suppose people notice when it affects them directly?

Anyway, I do think the city's committees might be a good way to get your ear to the ground.
There is nothing more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. - Martin Luther King Jr.
XT225
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by XT225 »

southy wrote:Very interesting Rustled. I don't think a story on Castanet about a meeting at Penticton City Hall can be classified as advertising. Yes, it was a newsworthy story, if you read Castanet everyday. I simply do not recall seeing anything in any of the two local newspapers IN PENTICTON!! Or hearing anything on PENTICTON radio. By the way Rustled .. where exactly is it you live? Don't think it's PENTICTON is it? Easy to say ... yes build at parkade downtown especially when the cost of said parkade won't effect you in anyway, just those PENTICTON residents. Not saying you aren't entitled to voice your opinion on this bike lane issue in Penticton but I do get my back up when someone living in say West Kelowna starts saying Penticton should be building parkades. By the way ... I also believe Mr. acberry is a big boy and can answer questions for himself. Speaking of Mr. acberry where is his response?


Southy is correct; many people don't read castanet or the local rags. The city often seems to do minimal advertising of events; especially ones that they feel may be controversial. Parkades will never happen (though a darned good idea; the old 3 Gables lot would be ideal for that). This isn't Kelowna, West Kelowna; its Penticton. We've been trying to get them to build a parkade at PRH (which would make total sense) and look at the delays in even breaking ground. Back to the bike routes, I think personally that at least two or three High up staff at city hall are pushing this issue for THEIR benefits and not thinking of the taxpayers or business owners on that street affected by the loss of parking. Someone suggested using the alleys as bike routes (I think they said it in jest because of the contentious issue of large trucks NOT using the alleys) but that's really a GREAT idea. No loss of parking, direct routes North and South - paint a few bikes signs on the pavement and its a done deal; EVERY one would be happy and no loss of parking or business. There are other routes that I have stated in previous posts that already exist. Its a complete waste of taxpayers dollars to disrupt things the way that is being suggested. I have to wonder if one of our councillors who just happens to own a business on Main Street and is a pro-biker would feel the same if HIS business was located on Ellis?
rustled
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by rustled »

XT225 wrote:Southy is correct; many people don't read castanet or the local rags. The city often seems to do minimal advertising of events; especially ones that they feel may be controversial.

Every community seems to grapple with this: how to involve the people who are going to be passionate, early on in the process.
XT225 wrote: Parkades will never happen (though a darned good idea; the old 3 Gables lot would be ideal for that). This isn't Kelowna, West Kelowna; its Penticton. We've been trying to get them to build a parkade at PRH (which would make total sense) and look at the delays in even breaking ground.

Horribly expensive capital cost, I expect.
XT225 wrote: Someone suggested using the alleys as bike routes (I think they said it in jest because of the contentious issue of large trucks NOT using the alleys) but that's really a GREAT idea. No loss of parking, direct routes North and South - paint a few bikes signs on the pavement and its a done deal; EVERY one would be happy and no loss of parking or business.

Might be a brilliant solution! I wonder who's on that committee? (One of the links I posted was a letter to the editor; think it was signed by a committee member.) Maybe see if you can attend their next meeting, find out why they're thinking what they're thinking, suggest the alley option.
There is nothing more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. - Martin Luther King Jr.
twobits
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by twobits »

fluffy wrote:
Isn't it possible that future trends could lean towards an increase in cycling as a commuter tool though ? There are many reasons to leave the car at home and hop on a bike, the biggest obstacle at present is our addiction to convenience and I can see that changing as gas prices keep rising and the states of both the environment and our general health continue to decline. It makes sense to me to have a suitable infrastructure in place in order to encourage this shift.


Fluff, this is the view, or justification per se, being advanced to support more commuter bike lanes. IMO it just doesn't wash. Given our climate, our aged demographic, and our slope challenging hillside residential areas, I don't believe cycling as an alternative transportation will be embraced by any more than a very small niche segment of our population. I have a very hard time in accepting the invested capital of arterial roads for bike use for such a tiny segment of the population. We have two lane roads that could be four if not for the bike lanes. From a "green" standpoint, what carbon footprint do we reduce by having vehicles stacked blocks long waiting to make turns rather than flowing smoothly through. From a business standpoint, what is a parking spot worth in real dollars. Try buying a vacant lot and making a parking lot and you will know.

The reality is that these bike lanes are a hindrance to a majority of commuters and as a result also have a negative impact on commerce that can be quantified in real dollars through wasted gas and the foregone cost of peoples time that bikes on the road cause. Bike lanes are nothing more that a politically correct cause to advance lately. They are a dream akin to "build them and they will come". In warmer climes and larger cities yes, but not here. Perhaps we could reinstall the KVR tracks again and the trains will come too.

Investment in recreational bike trails......fantastic!! But another thread.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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southy
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by southy »

Twobits ... I never thought I would say this, but, THANK YOU! You put into words what many of us have thought and I for one appreciate your awareness with regard to the bike lanes issue. You nailed it!
southy
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by southy »

rustled wrote: if you have a bit of time to spare, you might want to get involved with one of the city's committees. That'll give you the best opportunity for input on the things that really matter to you. Chances are you'll feel more "in the loop"


[quote="rustled"] I do think the city's committees might be a good way to get your ear to the ground

You know Rustler if I didn't know better I would think you are the social convener for the City of Penticton. Get as many people as you can involved in committees. Are you on one? Or just shooting from the lip? By the way, I don't have time and I do have better things to do than sit on a City of Penticton or Cycling Association committee who's main intent are political anyways. I'm simply a concerned citizen and the city needs us just as much as committee members, perhaps even more so.
XT225
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by XT225 »

southy wrote:Twobits ... I never thought I would say this, but, THANK YOU! You put into words what many of us have thought and I for one appreciate your awareness with regard to the bike lanes issue. You nailed it!


I second that; twobits nailed it bang on and deserves a gold star (first one I've ever given him..lol) this time.
rustled
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by rustled »

southy wrote:
You know Rustler if I didn't know better I would think you are the social convener for the City of Penticton. Get as many people as you can involved in committees. Are you on one? Or just shooting from the lip? By the way, I don't have time and I do have better things to do than sit on a City of Penticton or Cycling Association committee who's main intent are political anyways. I'm simply a concerned citizen and the city needs us just as much as committee members, perhaps even more so.


Southy, I'm not affiliated with the city or its committees; just another citizen joining a conversation about what goes on in our community. The links I provided were genuinely meant to be helpful. The suggestion that you might consider joining one of the city's many committees (if you had the time) was truly offered with only the best of intentions.

My apologies for offending you; nothing I offered was meant as any kind of an attack.
There is nothing more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. - Martin Luther King Jr.
dreamon
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by dreamon »

twobits wrote:Isn't it possible that future trends could lean towards an increase in cycling as a commuter tool though ? There are many reasons to leave the car at home and hop on a bike, the biggest obstacle at present is our addiction to convenience and I can see that changing as gas prices keep rising and the states of both the environment and our general health continue to decline. It makes sense to me to have a suitable infrastructure in place in order to encourage this shift.


Fluff, this is the view, or justification per se, being advanced to support more commuter bike lanes. IMO it just doesn't wash. Given our climate, our aged demographic, and our slope challenging hillside residential areas, I don't believe cycling as an alternative transportation will be embraced by any more than a very small niche segment of our population. I have a very hard time in accepting the invested capital of arterial roads for bike use for such a tiny segment of the population. We have two lane roads that could be four if not for the bike lanes. From a "green" standpoint, what carbon footprint do we reduce by having vehicles stacked blocks long waiting to make turns rather than flowing smoothly through. From a business standpoint, what is a parking spot worth in real dollars. Try buying a vacant lot and making a parking lot and you will know.

The reality is that these bike lanes are a hindrance to a majority of commuters and as a result also have a negative impact on commerce that can be quantified in real dollars through wasted gas and the foregone cost of peoples time that bikes on the road cause. Bike lanes are nothing more that a politically correct cause to advance lately. They are a dream akin to "build them and they will come". In warmer climes and larger cities yes, but not here. Perhaps we could reinstall the KVR tracks again and the trains will come too.

Investment in recreational bike trails......fantastic!! But another thread.[/quote]

Well said Twobits.
I'm an avid cyclist but do not see any advantage to what the city is proposing. The costs and detriments far outweigh the pros.
ToddT
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by ToddT »

The bike lanes drive me nuts. Cyclists don't even use them. Nothing irritates me like a cyclist making a left turn in the vehicle's lane. Or how about when large groups are using the bike lanes only to be riding 3-4 wide?

The thing is, I really don't get it. I thought it was pretty common sense. If I'm in a vehicle and you're on a bike, and we get in a collision, the odds are pretty darn good that I'm going to be ok. Not so much for Mr. Cyclist. You are not cars or trucks so stop trying to play by their rules.

(I'm not saying all cyclists are this way, I enjoy riding too. But I'm sure we've all had our run in with that one type of cyclist that always seems to be doing his best vehicle impression.)
Jo
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by Jo »

How are you supposed to turn left if you're not in the left turn lane?

ToddT wrote:Nothing irritates me like a cyclist making a left turn in the vehicle's lane.
XT225
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by XT225 »

An article in the paper today stated that one Ellis Street business owner (whom I know well and respect) is upset over the possible loss of parking on Ellis Street and that she was told by the city that if trucks parked in front of her business to deliver goods, they would be ticketed (if the bike lanes are put in). Ya, right...what a joke; just like the big trucks that double park on Main Street and the police and bylaw simply look the other way? Our city bylaws are a complete joke; why make them if they are never enforced? Everyone needs to stand up against this proposed route and suggest alternatives. Just like the bike lanes on Government Street, which are totally underutilized, so would ones on Ellis. Its time for business owners and customers to revolt! Too bad we weren't closer to the Municipal election of November 2014; then the council would mind their manners.
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