New proposed bike route

ToddT
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by ToddT »

I am incredibly impressed that there is a relevant article for this topic with statistics to back it up. I'm even more impressed you found it lol.
XT225
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by XT225 »

Slightly getting off topic here but still on the subject of riding bikes while intoxicated (a dumb idea), remember that you can be arrested for simply BEING in public while intoxicated; let alone being on the roadway. Its bad enough that we have sober riders disobeying the rules of the road but getting on a bike while intoxicated is asking for serious trouble. Will you also be wearing a helmet? Riding with a light at night? :

The source of the authority to arrest someone for being drunk in a public place in British Columbia is the Liquor Control and Licensing Act [RSBC 1996] Chapter 267. Section 41 of that act provides:

Drunkenness in public place

41 (1) A person who is intoxicated must not be or remain in a public place.

(2) A peace officer may arrest, without a warrant, a person found intoxicated in a public place.

Note that the word used in the act to describe the necessary state of insobriety is "intoxicated" rather than "drunk" or "impaired". Note as well that the cause of intoxication is not specifically required to be alcohol, although the purpose of the legislation is the control of liquor, and the relevant marginal heading is "drunkenness
XT225
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by XT225 »

Section 253 of the Criminal Code of Canada – the part that says it’s a crime to drive impaired on drugs or alcohol – states specifically that the law only applies to motor vehicles. Boats, trains, and even airplanes are covered under the section, but bikes aren’t. The best the police can do is charge high riders with public intoxication under the provincial Gaming and Liquor Act. It would also be possible to be charged with careless driving under the Traffic Safety Act, but a cyclist would have to be violating the rules of the road before being pulled over.

That last sentence gives the police an easy ticket. How many times do we see cyclists violating the rules of the road? I don't have enough fingers to count. ps: another reason to have bike routes away from the main areas of traffic.
acbarry
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by acbarry »

twobits wrote:
You are correct. It also means they are subject to the same rules and penalties. I am still waiting for those rules and penalties to be enforced however. Why is that?

Again, it all comes back to education. I wonder how many people even know they are breaking the law.
When was the last time you took a driver education course? I am sure there are many new laws in place since then. You might not know that you are breaking them.
It also comes down to enforcement. With no one to enforce it, you won't get caught.

It also goes the other way. I see so many drivers breaking the law. Why aren't they being enforced? Yeah i see the occasional person getting a fine but they are so outnumbered by the people not caught.
The main difference is, if i have a crash on my bike while using my cell phone, the consequences are so much less than if i were in a car.
XT225
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by XT225 »

I think that twobits was referring to the BIKERS, not vehicle drivers, breaking the rules. I was, too. Enforcement is being ignored so why should such laws even be passed? Its nothing more than a joke. Perhaps the cyclists should take "cyclist education"; starting in school. I know that the YOUNGER kids do in elementary school but after that it all goes out the window.
It may sound harsh but I'm personally in favor of cutting back on bylaw officers who are ignoring their responsibilities.
We pay their salaries to do the job that they were hired to do. Same goes for the police (unless they are enroute to a more important matter). The Ellis Street bike route should be scrapped and now.
twobits
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by twobits »

From a few weeks ago. I like the way this guy thinks.

http://www.castanet.net/news/Letters/100374/Bike-Paths
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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southy
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by southy »

twobits wrote:From a few weeks ago. I like the way this guy thinks.

http://www.castanet.net/news/Letters/100374/Bike-Paths


Great find Twobits. This gentleman nails it. I reallyl like his idea of keeping council out of the planning and utilizing the extremely creative resources of students. Makes perfect sense. HIs suggestions of using paralleling infrastruture is very similar to what XT has been saying. Get those bikes off our main heavily congested roads.
XT225
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by XT225 »

Yes, that was a very good link/article on the bike routes. I have mentioned several bike routes that pretty much already go North and South, already in place. There IS a need, however for some East/West routes. It has been started (ie: Carmi East of Government St); then a little known paved path behind PRH and Carmi School. It wouldn't take much to continue that on down Industrial Ave; plenty of room in the treed area South of the creek. I agree; keep council and city hall out of the planning/idea stages and give the task to the High school kids. That way no politics will get in the way. Closing off parking on West side of Ellis was the stupidest idea that the city has come up with in a while.
XT225
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by XT225 »

I see that some residents/business owners have presented council with a petition against the proposed bike lanes on Ellis Street and Vancouver Ave. Good for them. I hope that council actually listens. Lame brained idea completely. I have to wonder if the tables were turned and the lanes were proposed for the West Side of Main Street between Westminster and Eckhardt (where at least two of our city councillors own businesses) if THEY would object to that?

http://www.castanet.net/edition/news-st ... htm#104923
southy
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by southy »

I don't know XT, I don't have a good feeling about this. Below is a comment from Mitch Moroziuk that appears in the Castanet story. Really????? They first recognized there was concern about the lane on Ellis after about 90 people showed opposition????
Where does this council and staff keep there heads????? So now the lane is being put on hold and will be under consideration in January. Would really like to see business owners on Ellis and those opposing it also be involved in this consideration meeting. Of course the yes folks will be there that's a given. I do believe it will move forward just watch.

"They first recognized there was concern about the lane on Ellis after about 90 people showed opposition to it at an open house in October.

Following that meeting the lane was put on hold, said Mitch Moroziuk, director of operations.

"After so many people showed up, we saw a lot of people had issues, so we put the project on hold pending consideration of options," he said.

The matter will again be under consideration in January, he added."
XT225
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by XT225 »

southy wrote:I don't know XT, I don't have a good feeling about this. Below is a comment from Mitch Moroziuk that appears in the Castanet story. Really????? They first recognized there was concern about the lane on Ellis after about 90 people showed opposition????
Where does this council and staff keep there heads????? So now the lane is being put on hold and will be under consideration in January. Would really like to see business owners on Ellis and those opposing it also be involved in this consideration meeting. Of course the yes folks will be there that's a given. I do believe it will move forward just watch.

"They first recognized there was concern about the lane on Ellis after about 90 people showed opposition to it at an open house in October.

Following that meeting the lane was put on hold, said Mitch Moroziuk, director of operations.

"After so many people showed up, we saw a lot of people had issues, so we put the project on hold pending consideration of options," he said.

Southy,The whole idea of losing those 68 parking spaces to bike lanes is beyond crazy. We are trying to ATTRACT customers downtown; not lose them. I mentioned before that this would NOT come up, if it were the West side of Main St, where two councillors own properties/businesses. They should not even have a vote on it, period. The fellow who delivered the petition to council did a very good job and said that only 3% of Penticton ride bikes or use bike lanes, I believe. I would think that it would need to be a much higher percentage to even justify proceeding further. I do know that both the Mayor and Mr. Moroziuk are avid bike riders. Hmmmmm....? I believe the cost would be over $150,000 to implement the lanes; sounds far too rich for our city right now, when only a small number of folks will ever use them. Business and customers must come before recreational riders, especially in an economy such as ours right at the moment.
My reason for saying that the two councillors (no need to name them) should not have a vote is that they could be in conflict by feathering their one Main Street nests, should Ellis Street lose that many parking stalls. Ellis Street businesses would likely look at moving elsewhere should this change take place.

acbarry
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by acbarry »

southy wrote:"They first recognized there was concern about the lane on Ellis after about 90 people showed opposition to it at an open house in October.

Following that meeting the lane was put on hold, said Mitch Moroziuk, director of operations.

"After so many people showed up, we saw a lot of people had issues, so we put the project on hold pending consideration of options," he said.
Where were these people earlier when the plans for Pentictons Bike Network were being made. There were open houses. They had plenty of opportunity to let their view known. Now they wait till October which is now costing the city more money. More Open Houses will need to be had. Spend Spend Spend.


southy wrote:The whole idea of losing those 68 parking spaces to bike lanes is beyond crazy. We are trying to ATTRACT customers downtown; not lose them. I mentioned before that this would NOT come up, if it were the West side of Main St, where two councillors own properties/businesses. They should not even have a vote on it, period. The fellow who delivered the petition to council did a very good job and said that only 3% of Penticton ride bikes or use bike lanes, I believe. I would think that it would need to be a much higher percentage to even justify proceeding further. I do know that both the Mayor and Mr. Moroziuk are avid bike riders. Hmmmmm....? I believe the cost would be over $150,000 to implement the lanes; sounds far too rich for our city right now, when only a small number of folks will ever use them. Business and customers must come before recreational riders, especially in an economy such as ours right at the moment.
3%? Thats not bad. The Penticton Vees won the RBC Cup a couple years back. I read an article that the average attendance for the whole season was about the 1000 mark. This works out to be about 3.5% of the population in a so called Hockey crazed nation that lives and breeds the sport. Where was the support for this wonderful team?
Build it and they will come. Who's to say that these bike lanes won't increase the amount of people who cycle to 10%? Most people don't feel safe riding on Penticton roads. I wonder why?
twobits
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by twobits »

acbarry wrote: Most people don't feel safe riding on Penticton roads. I wonder why?


Fear of hypothermia for four months
Fear of heat stroke for four months
And for the fastest growing segment of Penticton's population, 65 years and older currently at 25.8%, fear of coronary or stroke. Hmmm, these bike lanes may prove useful yet.....for scooters.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard.
southy
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by southy »

Acberry, comparing the Penticton Vees to a bike lane is like comparing apples to watermellons ... no relevance whatsoever. If my memory serves me right, you and I and others have been on this merry-go-round topic before. I can only assume you are an avid cyclist and I respect that, however, I do have a problem with parking stalls being removed and the city spending 150G's on a bike lane. Tax increase was just announced, yet the city in their wisdom wants to spend another 150. I don't care if it was budgeted, this money can be used more wisely.

You ask where all these people were when planning meetings where being held? Well you know not everyone has their nose in a newspaper looking for a CIty of Penticton ad or press release. Your comment about these meetings being advertised reminds me of how some civic and even provincial and federal politics work. Tell the publc very little and there will be very little push back. Plus you can always say ... "well we advertised it, not our fault you didn't read it".

Maybe, just maybe Twobits is on the right track ... turn these bike lanes into scooter lanes this would make it safer for everyone.
acbarry
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Re: New proposed bike route

Post by acbarry »

twobits wrote:
Fear of hypothermia for four months
Clothes are made better than they were back in the 1950s when most of the population was born. You'd be amazed at how warm the clothes are these days. And there is also the benefit of warming up on the ride.
twobits wrote:Fear of heat stroke for four months
I don't know why people live here with so much fear. Better stay at home and leave the people without all this fear to enjoy the city.
twobits wrote:And for the fastest growing segment of Penticton's population, 65 years and older currently at 25.8%, fear of coronary or stroke. Hmmm, these bike lanes may prove useful yet.....for scooters.
I have heard rumours that exercise and fitness helps counteract heart attacks and stroke. But thats just rumour.

Are you on the Hospitality Committee? You should be. You'd make some great promotions for this city. Come here and live in fear of Winter and Summer, the two attributes that Penticton has going for it!! You'll love it.
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