Wild horses take over hwy. & roads

[NotNorthAnymore]

Paranoid Conspiracy Theorist

Chem trails - Men in Black - Smart meters being able to monitor your bedroom activities.

PCT
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What is so hard about this question?

Is human life more important than that of wild animals that cross the road in front of moving vehicles?

[GEW]

i have no idea what 'pct' means.

your suggestion that somehow my family is not human is somewhat puzzling.

wildlife is just as important as my family. neither should harm the other. if they do, it should only then be in the name of survival and sustenance.

gew, i have seen what hitting a moose at the speed you advocate does to a vehicle and the people inside. in some instances it is quite uglt, and often enough mortally perilous to the people.

i would never dream of passing a moose or horse, or many other animals at 90 kmh, for my own survival if nothing else.

What if they jump out from a ditch or behind a tree and you have no time to react? I suppose you could drive at 10km/h on a highway, but getting rear ended is just as hazardous as hitting an animal. Like I said, reduce the hazards; some wild animals can't be controlled. But horses can.
Keep them off the highway or shoot them. If they survive, shoot them again. Have a nice evening:-)

[A_Britishcolumbian]

notnorthanymore, i have clearly ansered your question, a human life, or one of my family is not worth more than the life of a wild animal, they are equal in the case of my family and wildlife.

gew, it would seem to be your position that if you or any other person should end up on the road, they deserve to die, for interfering with motor vehicles. i am glad you are of the minority.

we do not need roads, we do not need to drive vehicles on them. we do however need wildlife.

if anyone would like to discuss wild horses, then please do, otherwise please stop derailing this thread.

[GEW]

ABC, if we don't need roads and don't need vehicles, put your money where you mouth is and move into a stick hut, be naked all the time and eat grass and roots. Otherwise, your arguments and opinions have no credibility whatsoever.
Horses are also excellent ingredients for glue and dog food if you were wondering.

[Xia33]

Don't you people think that, on both sides, this is just a little over the top??? One comparing family to wild animals and the other with zero regard for anything but humans, by the sounds of things.
Someone said something to the effect of "I hate horse people for this reason". A ridiculous statement, a generalization. Someone else said "a member of my family and a wild animal..their lives are equal" or some such thing. Another, IMO, ridiculous statement.
These kinds of things pit people against people. Can no one see that, in some ways, both are correct? I am definitely an animal lover, horses in particular....and I believe the people that have their horses running with the wild ones need to take some responsibility for their animals, PIB or not. But there are some true wild horses out there...it has been proven in many areas....but...."Shoot them all". "Kill them and put them in someone's freezer". And basically "save them all at the expense of humans". Does no one have one pick of common sense?
The almighty dollar drives all of this...and penticton is not the only place this is happening/has happened. It speaks volumes to me about society as a whole. Kill anything that gets in the way. Take a little look into the future....where will your kids go when the humans have destroyed not only the land, but the wildlife as well....when there is nothing left but housing, highways, pavement and cement...no trees in cities...nothing. Yaaayyyy for the human race!....and humans will still kill each other....so what's your point?

[A_Britishcolumbian]

hey xia33, so good see a level head in the bunch :)

i find it stunning when one considers the importance so many place the economy and the importance of revenues, that given that we have such an amazing repository of remnant populations of so many rare species, that the obvious viability of tourism/ecotourism is not being exploited to a greater degree.
http://lancasteronline.com/news/local/g ... f6878.html

i should clarify xia33, or rather correct, myself, because while it has not been shown that albertan or saskatchewan 'wild' horse populations have the ancient lineages found in our local horses, new dna has come to light that should help inform us better. and truthfully, i know very well the sampling of the alberta and saskatchewan populations is far from good.

when we look at the wild horses of bc, and as well the latest dna from 700,000 years ago as well as 13,000 years ago, and as well the entire archaeological record of horses, suggest that modern horses originated here, in north america. all modern horses are derived from the ancestors of our precious few wild horses we have left here in bc. one would think that a higher value would be put upon them, their presence would be exploited rather than criticized.

http://westerndigs.org/700000-year-old- ... r-decoded/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20018740
http://www.horsejournals.com/canadian-wild-horses

the idea that these so very rare animals should be used for glue or dog food is truly insulting. they are such an important piece of our human history, such an important part of so many cultures and religions. it baffles me why some people cannot or refuse to see their significance and value.

when the mcrory report is published, maybe then people will be enlightened to the incredibly rare population we possess, and value them as such.

[GEW]

You miss my point. I don't advocate a senseless slaughter of animals for no reason.
However, we live in the real world where humans dominate over all other species. If you want them protected you must confine them to fences to protect them and the public.
This reality will never change so just deal with it. If you want bloodlines protected, you must let go of ideology and accept reality. If you don't then that's your problem, because the rest of the world won't change to suit your extreme opinions

[goatboy]

is it not ironic that someone so against participating in any activity that adversely effects any wildlife expresses his opinions using a device that is made of material that does harm to the environment and needs a form of power that is harmful to the same environment that he professes to hold sacred?

[Ken7]

notnorthanymore, if i or any member of my family, especially a child, were to wander onto the road, i would hold you responsible should you hit them with a vehicle.

wildlife and children, and all living creatures are not targets for your murderous driving habits.

I think the same can go for these horses.

If anyone I know is ever injured as a result of these animals, there will be a healthy law suit. The Provincial and the PIB will both be named.

As the problem has been identified they are now aware, if they fail to take prompt action in the interest of public safety they are truly sticking their necks out! I think this should be considered by the two parties.

[Xia33]

I "liked" your post, but then I re read it....what sort of "prompt action" are you speaking of? The govt put fences all along the new highway between Oyama and Winfield...why can they not do that here? Why can the owners from PIB not be forced to take their horses back, or fence them in as do we, owners up and down the valley, have to....but leave the wild ones alone? Other than getting to the highway, are they really doing any harm? A**enine bikers, Quaders, partiers, campers who start forest fires etc., do far more harm to the environment and are rarely caught or dealt with.

[Ken7]

I "liked" your post, but then I re read it....what sort of "prompt action" are you speaking of? The govt put fences all along the new highway between Oyama and Winfield...why can they not do that here? Why can the owners from PIB not be forced to take their horses back, or fence them in as do we, owners up and down the valley, have to....but leave the wild ones alone? Other than getting to the highway, are they really doing any harm? A**enine bikers, Quaders, partiers, campers who start forest fires etc., do far more harm to the environment and are rarely caught or dealt with.

I totally agree with part of your line of thought. As this has dragged on now for over a year both parties would be considered negligent in addressing the situation. There are short term remedies' which would be herding up these animals and relocating them until the fences could be put in place.

In saying this what upsets me and I've said it before no one wants to stand up to the PIB. Why I just do not get it, if it was JDB Ranch which I hope is not a real one, lost several hundred head or horses or cattle for that matter they would be in court already. Why we can't stand up to the Aboriginals and say STOP, it is beyond me.

Anyone who appreciates their horses is not going to cut them free. Fact of matter is if you don't want your animal turn it over to someone who has the balls to keep care of it because setting it free is just being lazy and not being responsible at all.

Sadly years gone by they used to have DOG DAY in northern Saskatchewan. All the people who turned their dogs free and they became wild pack dogs had a chance to get their dog and tie it up. If they failed to, the dog pack was destroyed as they were a public safety matter and need to be controlled.

Maybe there has to be a horse day, if you own one you pick it up and care for it.

For Pete's sakes why can't people all the way to the top be held accountable in this day and age? The horses that are not claimed and left, get stock contractors to round them up and once they are on truck, they are yours and you can do with them what you wish. End of story there.

Sadly someone will get killed some rainy night when they encounter a black horse on the highway and then who will be responsible?

[Xia33]

Maybe there has to be a horse day, if you own one you pick it up and care for it.

For Pete's sakes why can't people all the way to the top be held accountable in this day and age? The horses that are not claimed and left, get stock contractors to round them up and once they are on truck, they are yours and you can do with them what you wish. End of story there.

You had me til this point....problem being is that there are true wild horses in that bunch and they should have a chance and we should be proud to have them. Yes, the "owners" who have turned their horses out should be held responsible....and whether they are PIB or not, I agree. Seems as though this is more of the problem than the wildies....and once again the natives are not/can not be held accountable. The government the same thing.
In AB recently, people have gone out and shot horses and left them to die....and a lot of the "ranchers" believe their cattle should have first right...but then so do the dirt bikers, Quaders, partiers, who destroy the paths, the fauna and don't give a tinkers dam about anything. My grandparents, and my mom grew up in the south OK area and there has always been wild horses and that adds up to approximately a minimum of 80-90 years.
I get so sick of all the "city" people that have zero patience/respect for animals that "interrupt" their idealistic and steril lives.

[Ken7]

You had me til this point....problem being is that there are true wild horses in that bunch and they should have a chance and we should be proud to have them. Yes, the "owners" who have turned their horses out should be held responsible....and whether they are PIB or not, I agree. Seems as though this is more of the problem than the wildies....and once again the natives are not/can not be held accountable. The government the same thing.
In AB recently, people have gone out and shot horses and left them to die....and a lot of the "ranchers" believe their cattle should have first right...but then so do the dirt bikers, Quaders, partiers, who destroy the paths, the fauna and don't give a tinkers dam about anything. My grandparents, and my mom grew up in the south OK area and there has always been wild horses and that adds up to approximately a minimum of 80-90 years.
I get so sick of all the "city" people that have zero patience/respect for animals that "interrupt" their idealistic and steril lives.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the herd has to be slaughters.

What I'm suggesting is the people who own the horses need a swift kick in the butt for failing to be responsible. Then the Government needs to take swift action to prevent these animals from being a problem. Fence the roadways to keep the horses off the highway and safe if they are such a value to our history, build crossings underground so the animals can run if that is needed.

What truly gets me is almost 600 horses, what percent were wild horses? What percent are throw away horses? That gets me and then PIB suggests that it's the governments problem and they need money again!

That is not how responsible people care for there pets. Just think if every large dog owner took their pet out to West Kelowna and set if free, how would that sit and what would the end result be? No one today feels they should be held accountable for their actions and this issue is just another fine example.

[Xia33]

I am sure PIB knows who owns what...and I agree, except for the "throw away" horses...because a lot of people believe they are worthy of only being loaded up and off to slaughter or shot....but those same people don't give a dam about anything except doing what they want with no interference, be it coyotes, bears or even humans, but luckily being "human" saves them a quick end. They need to get some of the old guys that know the areas and back country that know what was in years past as far as the true wildies go. So far as the natives, it is bloody well time someone made them responsible for something!

[kitschy]

Hi, this is my first post, but as a homegrown local -- I'm quite upset at the story I've been following regarding PIB and their horses.

It seems there have been options made available and the popular choice is sending them to slaughter with PIB receiving monetary compensation for their animal cruelty and neglect.

I took a gander at the Canada Criminal Code for Animal Cruelty and this is what I found:

Criminal Code of Canada - Animal Cruelty

Please see below for the pertinent sections in the Criminal Code of Canada that are directly related to animal cruelty.

Causing unnecessary suffering

445.1 (1) Every one commits an offence who

(a) wilfully causes or, being the owner, wilfully permits to be caused unnecessary pain, suffering or injury to an animal or a bird;

(b) in any manner encourages, aids or assists at the fighting or baiting of animals or birds;

(c) wilfully, without reasonable excuse, administers a poisonous or an injurious drug or substance to a domestic animal or bird or an animal or a bird wild by nature that is kept in captivity or, being the owner of such an animal or a bird, wilfully permits a poisonous or an injurious drug or substance to be administered to it;

(d) promotes, arranges, conducts, assists in, receives money for or takes part in any meeting, competition, exhibition, pastime, practice, display or event at or in the course of which captive birds are liberated by hand, trap, contrivance or any other means for the purpose of being shot when they are liberated; or

(e) being the owner, occupier or person in charge of any premises, permits the premises or any part thereof to be used for a purpose mentioned in paragraph (d).

Punishment

(2) Every one who commits an offence under subsection (1) is guilty of

(a) an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than five years; or

(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable to a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars or to imprisonment for a term of not more than eighteen months or to both.

Failure to exercise reasonable care as evidence

(3) For the purposes of proceedings under paragraph (1)(a), evidence that a person failed to exercise reasonable care or supervision of an animal or a bird thereby causing it pain, suffering or injury is, in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, proof that the pain, suffering or injury was caused or was permitted to be caused wilfully, as the case may be.

......

Causing damage or injury

446. (1) Every one commits an offence who

(a) by wilful neglect causes damage or injury to animals or birds while they are being driven or conveyed; or

(b) being the owner or the person having the custody or control of a domestic animal or a bird or an animal or a bird wild by nature that is in captivity, abandons it in distress or wilfully neglects or fails to provide suitable and adequate food, water, shelter and care for it.

Punishment

(2) Every one who commits an offence under subsection (1) is guilty of

(a) an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term of not more than two years; or

(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable to a fine not exceeding five thousand dollars or to imprisonment for a term of not more than six months or to both.

http://www.spca.bc.ca/cruelty/legislation/criminal-code-of-canada-animals.html

If that is our law, why are they even being given options? Why hasn't the Crown taken this to court? I found a recent crown charge to another Indian band in Canada for Animal Cruelty -- so, it is possible.

I grew up in Penticton and have always known it as an animal friendly town. It's horrible to see a segment of our community who has a heavily based nature and animal culture that they are trying to preserve, support the slaughter of these animals.