Employment Standards

ToddT
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Employment Standards

Post by ToddT »

I posted a thread earlier seeking advice, but I feel I worded it poorly so, here I would like to re-word it with hope of a good conversation.

Essentially, when an employer provides training for an employee, and the employee quits working for the company during the training, is the employer entitled to the monies it paid for the training to be reimbursed by the employee?

And to add, this is suggesting the lack of a training agreement.

Part of me feels sympathy for the employer having to spend the money, but to me, is it not the employer's responsibility to have documentation that dictates the proceedings of reimbursement should the employee decide to leave?
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Captain Awesome
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Re: Employment Standards

Post by Captain Awesome »

First thing any lawyer will ask you is whether or not you signed anything towards this agreement. It could have been fine print on the bottom of the position acceptance letter, it could have been the information form you've filled out one your first day. If it is in fact there and you signed for it, the other party has the grounds to take you to court. I doubt that your ex-employer would take it all the way to court without any paper backup.

Just a thought.
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bipdl
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Re: Employment Standards

Post by bipdl »

There is absolutely no way any employer can claw back a single penny of monies they've paid you for whatever time you spent working for them, training or otherwise. They can certainly ask... just like they can ask you to pay for their grandmother's sister-in-law's second cousin's dead cat's burial, but you are under no obligation to do anything of the sort. Doesn't matter how long you worked there... if you showed up, any money they gave you is yours to keep! End of story.

Hope that helps!

Check out the Employment Standards Act of British Columbia. Google it. Download it. Learn it. Keep it for future reference and update it regularly. Empower yourself with knowledge. There are a lot of bozo employers out there with some pretty over-the-top ideas, and it's your responsibility to know your rights, not their duty to teach you or tell you about them. Welcome to life.
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southy
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Re: Employment Standards

Post by southy »

By chance was there a Provincial Wage Subsidy Agreement in place with this employer?
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Re: Employment Standards

Post by twobits »

bipdl wrote:There is absolutely no way any employer can claw back a single penny of monies they've paid you for whatever time you spent working for them, training or otherwise. They can certainly ask... just like they can ask you to pay for their grandmother's sister-in-law's second cousin's dead cat's burial, but you are under no obligation to do anything of the sort. Doesn't matter how long you worked there... if you showed up, any money they gave you is yours to keep! End of story.

Hope that helps!

Check out the Employment Standards Act of British Columbia. Google it. Download it. Learn it. Keep it for future reference and update it regularly. Empower yourself with knowledge. There are a lot of bozo employers out there with some pretty over-the-top ideas, and it's your responsibility to know your rights, not their duty to teach you or tell you about them. Welcome to life.


Our military does it all the time. They pay for your education, you give them four years of service afterwards or repay them.
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bipdl
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Re: Employment Standards

Post by bipdl »

twobits wrote:Our military does it all the time. They pay for your education, you give them four years of service afterwards or repay them.


That would make sense, twobits, since the British Columbia Employment Standards Act does not apply to military recruits because their indentured servitude is to the Federal Government... not a provincially regulated private enterprise.
Last edited by bipdl on Dec 25th, 2013, 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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FSmith59
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Re: Employment Standards

Post by FSmith59 »

bipdl wrote:There is absolutely no way any employer can claw back a single penny of monies they've paid you for whatever time you spent working for them, training or otherwise.


Oh you are so wrong. You need to check with Employment Standards.

If an employer offers to pay for higher education, and expects that investment to remain in their company, and they stipulate that in an employment contract, signed by employee and the employer, it is binding. These are legal terms that the employee and employer have agreed upon. Employment Standards will not side with the employee. There are several options for reconciliation, though. The employer can eat the cost, but then T4 the employee for the amount, causing a taxable benefit for the employee and a deduction for the employer, or they could recoup the money through Employment Standards by going after the employee.

Empoyment Standards is actually very good for the employee/worker, but in this case it actually protects the employer. And it should...
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Re: Employment Standards

Post by bipdl »

FSmith59 wrote:If an employer offers to pay for higher education, and expects that investment to remain in their company, and they stipulate that in an employment contract, signed by employee and the employer, it is binding. These are legal terms that the employee and employer have agreed upon.

You've described a bona-fide contract for governing the terms of an employer sponsored "out-of-house" education, which is something completely outside of the Employment Standards Branch's jurisdiction. Read the post! The OP wrote: "And to add, this is suggesting the lack of a training agreement." Nowhere did he mention anything about "higher education". So that certainly doesn't appear to be what we're talking about here. You are describing a totally different situation contrary to what the OP stated.

FSmith59 wrote:Employment Standards will not side with the employee.

This statement is prejudicial and completely superfluous. The Employment Standards Branch would not "side" with anyone because adjudicating legal contracts is not within their jurisdiction. What, do you think the Employment Standards Branch is there to prosecute employees for contractual violations? Where in the does Act or the Regulations does it state any such thing? Do tell... I want to know.

FSmith59 wrote:"they (employers) could recoup the money through Employment Standards by going after the employee.

What hat did you pull that out of? I'm looking at the Act in a different screen while writing this, and I can't find anything to support this claim!

But hey, what employer doesn't dream about one day being be able to claw-back the cost of training all new employees how to turn the deep-fryer on and how much detergent to put in the mop bucket. Fortunately, we're (not yet) at the point where apprentices are required to have to pay back their wages if they quit and move on, although I know there are plenty of bosses who'd love to see this.

Read the Act yourself. http://www.bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws ... 1#section3
And, here are the regulations: http://www.bclaws.ca/EPLibraries/bclaws ... 5#section1
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Anonymous123
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Re: Employment Standards

Post by Anonymous123 »

It's a given that employees get trained. Employers take the risk of employees leaving. It's a part of the cost of doing business.


Manager: "What if we train the employees and they leave?"

CEO: "What if we don't, and they stay?"
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Captain Awesome
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Re: Employment Standards

Post by Captain Awesome »

I know at least one person who was successfully sued by the employer for the cost of training. But in this case, the cost of education and the consequences of early leave were clearly laid out in the contract he signed when her accepted the job. And no, it wasn't a super high level occupation either.
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fluffy
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Re: Employment Standards

Post by fluffy »

I can see that, there can be a substantial cost involved in some training, even little "one-day" safety certifications and the like. The main issue here would be whether or not both parties were aware of the rules of the game up front. If an employee was covered by any agreement where he agreed to stay for a certain length of time in exchange for the employer covering the cost of the training then by all means, he should live up to that agreement or cover the employer's expenses should he be unwilling to stay for the specified length. Another route not uncommon these days is to make the training a part of the job requirement before hiring. Common examples would be "Serve It Right", or some of the industrial safety certifications being asked for like CSTS, or OSSA in the tarsands.
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Steve-O
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Re: Employment Standards

Post by Steve-O »

Buddy started a job, was trained, and than quit all within about 6 months. His comment: if the employer had been completely open about what the job would entail, he never would of taken the position in the first place.

I feel the onus is on the employer that knows they will be investing heavily in new employees, to ensure the prospective employee understands what he is getting himself into. Some will still slip through the cracks, but it is in the employers best interest to be candid and open about job responsibilities.
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mexi cali
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Re: Employment Standards

Post by mexi cali »

I think it's simple. If there was a signed, acknowledged agreement then the former employee owes the employer the cost of training. If there wasn't, the opposite is true.
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Always Sunny
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Re: Employment Standards

Post by Always Sunny »

mexicalidreamer wrote:I think it's simple. If there was a signed, acknowledged agreement then the former employee owes the employer the cost of training. If there wasn't, the opposite is true.

This applies to my job. However, the training/education it refers to is optional and not provided internally. Think covering training for certain tickets/certifications, even First Aid training. These things can be quite costly no matter who is paying.

I believe my employer requires 3 years service/employment beyond the time the school/training is completed. If you leave before that you are required to pay back at least a portion of the cost. I'm unclear of the exact details of it right now as it's been a couple of years since I actually looked into it.
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Re: Employment Standards

Post by ToddT »

That's exactly my point. I didn't find out how expensive the training was until I got this nice little letter in the mail.
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