My opinion of big events like Challenge Triathlon

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Thinktank
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My opinion of big events like Challenge Triathlon

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Image

A few motel owners gain profit.

But now, firefighters get fired, and everybody has to pay for it.

My opinion - simple. It's another scam.

One guy gets $200,000. (a few make money)
Anothe guy loses $200,000. (that's all the rest of us)
WHEN WILL WESTERN WAR PIGS WIND THIS UKRAINIAN GENOCIDE DOWN?????????????

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Re: My opinion of big events like Challenge Triathlon

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Thinktank wrote:My opinion - simple.


You said it, not me.

There are countless "trickle down" aspects to hosting an event of this nature that come into play here. The entire hospitality industry for starters, which includes business operators and their employees, not to mention the side business that arises out of a having a couple thousand extra bodies in town for a few days. The publicity for the tourist industry has some value as well. Direct employment for locals as well as the morale that comes from the volunteer crew both land in the "plus" category. An easy overall calculation if you're concerned about the financial end would be to stack up the money that is spent in town over the race period against the money that leaves town.
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Re: My opinion of big events like Challenge Triathlon

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The firefighers lost their job.

My taxes went up.

My opinion of politicians went down.

Dan Ashton was smiling like a hero with the Cahllenge people and he said "No new taxes"

So people loved the hero and sent him to Victoria where he can continue his heroics.

Now, one year later, Penticton people are forced to cough up money, for less services.
If there's a fire now, people will die because some Hotels and restaurants made profit in August for three days.

that's what I call a scam.
WHEN WILL WESTERN WAR PIGS WIND THIS UKRAINIAN GENOCIDE DOWN?????????????

"Fisman's Fraud" - most important Canadian book of 2024. covid fear tactics of fraudulent scientist David Fisman - misinformation distributed by U of Toronto researchers.
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Re: My opinion of big events like Challenge Triathlon

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Sensationalism aside, how do you tie Challenge Penticton to the decision not to refill two Fire Department positions vacated by retiring members in the past year ? Members we have been operating without for some time now ? Especially since Challenge has not actually asked the City for any extra money yet, and may not even have to ?
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Re: My opinion of big events like Challenge Triathlon

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fluffy wrote:Sensationalism aside, how do you tie Challenge Penticton to the decision not to refill two Fire Department positions vacated by retiring members in the past year ? Members we have been operating without for some time now ? Especially since Challenge has not actually asked the City for any extra money yet, and may not even have to ?


I believe that the city gave $200,000 to Challenge? Not sure what Ironman used to get or ask for. The firefighters costs around $150,000 and were not laid off; the city just didn't replace two after they retired; then raised taxes to pay for "Whatever". Seems that sidewalks and races are more important to this city than safety. Smells of liability if you ask me. I wont comment on if Challenge is a good or bad thing since negative business reviews are not allowed and Challenge IS a business. It does concern me somewhat though that the taxpayers might be subsidizing a private business?
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Re: My opinion of big events like Challenge Triathlon

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pentona wrote:Challenge IS a business. It does concern me somewhat though that the taxpayers might be subsidizing a private business?


That would concern me, too. Good point.
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Re: My opinion of big events like Challenge Triathlon

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I think Challenge is being made a scapegoat here, it was their first year out and they show a good potential to turn a profit down the road somewhere. It is my understanding that the city would ultimately be liable to cover the $200,000.00 shortfall from this year if funding cannot be found from other sources, but no one has asked the city for money yet. It is also worth noting that the two unfilled positions at the firehall translates into a drop in the number of full time fire-fighters from 32 to 30. Does that leave them short-handed ?
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Re: My opinion of big events like Challenge Triathlon

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fluffy wrote:I think Challenge is being made a scapegoat here, it was their first year out and they show a good potential to turn a profit down the road somewhere. It is my understanding that the city would ultimately be liable to cover the $200,000.00 shortfall from this year if funding cannot be found from other sources, but no one has asked the city for money yet. It is also worth noting that the two unfilled positions at the firehall translates into a drop in the number of full time fire-fighters from 32 to 30. Does that leave them short-handed ?


I would much rather see the city put money into "necessary infrastructure" and "Safety" than private business subsidies (if that's in fact what they are doing). Wouldn't other businesses scream blue mu_der if they asked the city for money and were turned down? Re the fire-fighters, I believe that presently there often aren't enough on shift to do proper quick attacks/rescues (from what I've read in the media).
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Re: My opinion of big events like Challenge Triathlon

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It certainly would be helpful to have some "inside" information as to scheduling and such, and just how a staff of 32 would let them do things a staff of 30 cannot. I believe Worksafe BC has some fairly specific restrictions on what actions can be performed by firefighters on a fire scene depending on available crew size, and this limits their freedom to enter a burning structure which would in turn affect the safety of anyone trapped inside.

To my understanding the City has not paid to cover the $200K shortfall in this year's Challenge race. Mayor Litke has stated that should the Challenge organization be unable to raise the funds themselves the city is ultimately responsible but whether or not that comes to pass has yet to be seen. This information has been widely publicized, but is conveniently forgotten by those wishing to paint the City and Challenge in a bad light.
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Re: My opinion of big events like Challenge Triathlon

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It certainly would be helpful to have some "inside" information as to scheduling and such, and just how a staff of 32 would let them do things a staff of 30 cannot. I believe Worksafe BC has some fairly specific restrictions on what actions can be performed by firefighters on a fire scene depending on available crew size, and this limits their freedom to enter a burning structure which would in turn affect the safety of anyone trapped inside.


I can offer you a little insight. Here is an accurate illustration of the current regulatory framework that mandates fire services and the minimum level of service required in British Columbia.
Image

Currently, there are no provincially mandated levels of service. Matter of fact, council could clean house and sell the equipment to the highest bidder - as far as provincial legislation is concerned. If council chooses to maintain a fire department there is some regulation regarding the splitting of shifts. (I believe the local assistant to the fire commissioner has to be reimbursed $1.50/day for his services, but that's going off memory because I haven't seen the regulations that go with the act for a number of years.) The Act is pretty out of date - in my humble opinion.

The BC fire services act can be found here: http://www.bclaws.ca/Recon/document/ID/ ... #section48

I see Penticton Fire Department was formed and has been maintained since 1911. The current fire and life safety bylaw establishes a fire department, but doesn't mandate levels of service: "A department for the City known as the Penticton Fire Department is established and is continued as a Fire Department pursuant to Section 8 of the Community Charter."

The bylaw can be found here: http://www.penticton.ca/assets/City~Hal ... 004-57.pdf

Worksafe does maintain a set of regulations regarding firefighting, but doesn't maintain a regulation mandating specific levels of service or manpower requirements for specific operations, but they do require the employer to "ensure the adequate instruction and direction of firefighters in the safe performance of their duties."

The Worksafe regulations may be found here: http://www2.worksafebc.com/publications ... umber:31.3

An Order in Council passed provincially back in 2003 mandated NFPA training standards that must be followed and this is where you start to get into minimum staffing levels required to perform certain operations. Basically, if an employer requires an employee to perform a task it has to be performed to the operating guidelines and as trained by NFPA standards. If a situation deviates the employer could be liable under part 31.4. of the firefighting regulation maintained by Worksafe.

Some collective agreements with the firefighters mandate minimum levels of service as an occupational health and safety issue, but... public collective agreements seem to be a private matter... so I can't speculate on that. ( if you want to read the private sector collective agreement that I work under it is publicly available here: http://www.bccfu.com/master-agreement/ )

The real driver behind minimum staffing levels of our fire department, in theory, should be the passage of Bill C-45: Amendments to the Criminal Code Affecting the Criminal Liability of Organizations.

In general, for an organization to be found guilty of committing a crime of negligence, the Crown will have to show that employees of the organization committed the act and that a senior officer should have taken reasonable steps to prevent them from doing so. (snip) As for the intent necessary to find the organization guilty, the proposed amendments under Bill C-45 would require that the senior officer responsible, or senior officers collectively, must have departed markedly from the standard of care that could be expected.


It can be found here: http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/other-autre/c45/

To characterize the regulatory levels of service... the system is flexible, but NFPA and other regulatory bodies do dictate best practices that must be followed. If you stretch the system and make it snap you can be found criminally responsible... think Walkerton water, or just south of here the crew boss working the thirtymile wildfire that was sentenced to 3 months work release and forbidden from ever working as a firefighter again.

The City's core service review paper does offer some insight into staffing levels in Sections 4 and 5 and it can be found here: http://www.penticton.ca/assets/City~New ... report.pdf

The Fire Departments financial plan is here: http://www.penticton.ca/assets/Departme ... t-Fire.pdf
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Re: My opinion of big events like Challenge Triathlon

Post by XT225 »

What has the firefighters situation got to do with the Challenge Race? Me thinks its gotten slightly off-topic here.
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Re: My opinion of big events like Challenge Triathlon

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Hmm... you mean the speculation regarding 200,000 taken from the right hand and put into the left hand.

I'd rather discuss cats.

Especially, in light of the fact that, 200,000 hasn't changed hands... as far as I can tell - and, the fire department budget actually increased over last year.

We did lose 2 full time firefighters and there *may* be an actual issue there - at least, that's what the other 8 posts in this thread seem to suggest.
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Re: My opinion of big events like Challenge Triathlon

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Drip_Torch wrote:Hmm... you mean the speculation regarding 200,000 taken from the right hand and put into the left hand.

I'd rather discuss cats.

Especially, in light of the fact that, 200,000 hasn't changed hands... as far as I can tell - and, the fire department budget actually increased over last year.

We did lose 2 full time firefighters and there *may* be an actual issue there - at least, that's what the other 8 posts in this thread seem to suggest.


You can discuss here.

http://forums.castanet.net/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=54435
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Re: My opinion of big events like Challenge Triathlon

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XT225 wrote:What has the firefighters situation got to do with the Challenge Race? Me thinks its gotten slightly off-topic here.


It's not really off topic because the think tank somehow managed to link the two together in some bizarre thought process in his OP. Somehow he thinks residents will be less served by the absence of two employee's that work two days, have two sleep overs and then four days off for an average 100k yr. Absent from the fire men's dire predictions is the very competent local paid on call firefighters that can very often respond just as fast as the engine. Don't get me wrong, I value their service but the public is being played here over negligible safety issues. I personally know two local firemen and they fully realize what a great gig they have and are privately a bit embarrassed by some of the rhetoric showing up in the daily letters to editor.
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Re: My opinion of big events like Challenge Triathlon

Post by roger-rabbit »

Garry Litke refuses to say how much money the event lost nor will anyone tell (even the politicans) how many have registered for 2014. If the numbers were half-assed good, they'd be willing to share this information. Why the evasion?
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