Skaha Hills

[Rosemary1]

Call me skeptical again

1. First it was Arrowleaf Development that was supposed to start construction in 2012 and didnt
2. Now name has changed to Skaha Hills and supposedly development to start later this year
3. A vineyard that supposed to be up by 2015 (really?!) Vineyard take awhile to establish..
3. Supposedly there have been presales of homes on leased lots and buyers are buying homes based on artist rendering or models that are never to scale; into a development that has already seen a 2 year delay and there has already been mention of some scaling down of some amenities initially mentioned as per recent newscasts.
4. We have examples here in Penticton alone of what happens with pre-saless when there are delays, contractors and subcontractors run out of money etc.
5. Hopefully all those eager buyers have done their due diligence and homework and with a bit of luck all will go well for them and they will get what they expected to get and on time. It is a buyer beware thing after all. We have enough examples in this province about risks of presales. but hey its up to the buyers.

Who is paying for bringing water and sewage into development by the way?

[grammafreddy]

Why would you want to bring in water sewage?

[Daspoot]

Too much water sewage and sales will suffer.

Go for it PIB, at least somebodies doing something around here. If a bunch of status-quo supporters are up in arms, you're probably doing something right.

ps:

3. A vineyard that supposed to be up by 2015 (really?!) Takes more than putting up a building

You do know vineyards aren't buildings right?

pps: take a drive out there, they've done a lot of work already.

[Dawnland]

@Rosemary1

Despite all the water sewage we have to bring in, sales are going very well. 28 of 47 units in phase 1 sold in the first week.
You are better off to go ask questions at the sales office, off highway 97 at the Skaha Meadows turn-off, because I don't think you're going to get the answers you are looking for here.
I think your conjecture is being drowned out by the water sewage.

[twobits]

@Rosemary1

Despite all the water sewage we have to bring in, sales are going very well. 28 of 47 units in phase 1 sold in the first week.
You are better off to go ask questions at the sales office, off highway 97 at the Skaha Meadows turn-off, because I don't think you're going to get the answers you are looking for here.
I think your conjecture is being drowned out by the water sewage.

I think you mean 28 units were CONDITIONALLY sold in the first week.

[Dawnland]

@twobits
Yes indeed CONDITIONALLY sold. Saw the view from one of the homes that is being framed in, looks good so far and the owners are so excited to be moving in.
There will be another 522 units that will be conditionally sold as this development unfolds which is happening quicker than most realize.
Stop in and see for yourself. It's beautiful and will have fabulous amenities with a view to match.

[Glacier]

Who is paying for bringing water sewage into development by the way?

Penticton Indian Band. Construction is already started.

[youhavegottobekidding]

We put money down on a Phase#1 lot and we were over looking at the views again yesterday. This will be a beautiful site. The crews were putting in more sewer pipes yesterday as well as underground services, ie: power and that kind of stuff as well as the natural gas lines. The vines look like they are doing real well. By next summer, there should be some nice big green leaves on those vines. We don't really care if it takes 2, 3 or 5 years to get some of the other bldgs going as there is nice golf courses so close by such as Twin Lakes Golf Course. We will play there as it looks like a real nice place. We met some real nice people there yesterday also when we visited the Golf Course. We are excited to get going and it is nice to see the City of Penticton and the PIB working together on what will be a very much needed asset for Penticton. The new residents will pour a lot of money into this beautiful City so we should welcome this new addition. Thank you.

[twobits]

Who is paying for bringing water and sewage into development by the way?

Don't know where the water is coming from but I see Penticton taxpayers are coughing up 280k of the costs for the sewer line extension/improvement to the airport. It is part of an agreement made a few years ago with regards to servicing PIB lands. I cannot however get any coherent answers on why Penticton is tossing in 280k. The usual premise is that it is work that was already planned or would have been required in the future anyway so the PIB (developer) throwing in a few ten k's makes it happen sooner. The city has not been very forthcoming on this agreement which just leads to speculation of back room deals. It would be so simple to just put out a statement that clarified why 280k is being contributed and what the development will pay the city each year for their load on the sewage treatment plant but instead.......

ETA- Am surprised Elvena is not all over this like a dog on a bone.

[Glacier]

Don't know where the water is coming from

It's coming from a new well across the road from the golf course on Penticton IR road.

[pentona]

It's coming from a new well across the road from the golf course on Penticton IR road.

If I were buying there, I would want to be trying the water FIRST. I used to live down that way and we were on well water; it was extremely hard and smelled horribly of sulphur. I would think that tying into the Penticton water would be every bit as important as the sewer extension. It is rather strange that the development would get city sewer, Fortis power and natural gas yet only use a well for water.

[twobits]

It's coming from a new well across the road from the golf course on Penticton IR road.

Do you know if it is being treated at all and if so what kind of system? This development, being on reserve lands, is not subject to Ministry of Health requirements. It seems that so many of the regulations that would need to be followed on non reserve lands, are not enforced on reserve lands. It would be in their best interest to do so but saving some major coin to gain a market cost advantage is a powerful incentive as well. How many purchasers would just "assume" their water quality was monitored and subject to Ministry of Health standards when there is clearly no requirement to do so and no way for a standard to be enforced should there be a water quality issue?
It is one of the prime reasons I personally would avoid a property lease on reserve lands even with Federal Gov't guarantee's on lease tenure. Even 100 years. There are just too many things that are not enforceable on reserve lands.
This also gives me pause to ask, "If an agreement was negotiated for city sewage treatment, why was water also not a part of the agreement?" Would it be that a private sewage treatment facility was cost prohibitive but drilling a water well outside of gov't standards is rather cheap and easy when the water table is only 4ft down? Would a lot purchaser (lessee) have recourse if there were to be a supply or quality issue? Who would that be.....Greyback Construction or PIB? I can guarantee it won't be Greyback and good luck suing the PIB.

Now having said that, yes, I am being the devils advocate here but it is with good reason. While I do wish the PIB and all First Nations success, long over due, two different sets of rules do not work. It is long overdue that the reserve system be recognized for the failure that it is. It has stymied First Nation advancement because of the special status of their lands and access to required capital because no one can foreclose on a reserve property. In come the Feds with guarantee's that are merely a band aid to land tenure rights. Some way has to be found to recognize their inherent rights but also create a level playing field. Two distinct cultures living side by side in harmony and respect. Imagine that? I must leave it to someone smarter than me to figure out how we truly reach that result cuz the current path ain't doing it.

[Glacier]

The water system will be treated just like it is elsewhere in the valley. Right now it is just being pumped up to a temporary reservoir to water the grapes. I have never seen an inferior water treatment plant on a reserve. The Senkulmen industrial park is probably the fanciest water treatment facility (*bleep*) in southern BC. This is not to say that some reserves don't have treated water, but as soon as big time development comes, they get treated water. These developments happen with big time government grants, and governments are not going to risk an inferior treatment facility, but more importantly the engineer is not going to sign off on the project if the water quality is poor.

[XT225]

The water system will be treated just like it is elsewhere in the valley. Right now it is just being pumped up to a temporary reservoir to water the grapes. I have never seen an inferior water treatment plant on a reserve. The Senkulmen industrial park is probably the fanciest water treatment facility (*bleep*) in southern BC. This is not to say that some reserves don't have treated water, but as soon as big time development comes, they get treated water. These developments happen with big time government grants, and governments are not going to risk an inferior treatment facility, but more importantly the engineer is not going to sign off on the project if the water quality is poor.

Glacier, how do you KNOW that the water system will be treated? (link, please). There are many different types of water treatment in this valley; from zero treatment, Sand Filtration, UV, to Chlorine. Few are the exact same. I believe for instance that Red Wing Resorts, draws from Okanagan Lake and treats it with only Chlorine. They are on Native lands and do not have to follow the same rules. Westbench USED to do that but realized that it would soon not meet I.H. regulations and so they opted to tie into Penticton water; a wise move. A treatment plant was going to be too expensive for them to go it alone. Now well water is indeed different but unless its softened and treated accordingly, I don't believe that it will meet the same standards as Penticton water. I will stay living East of the channel; thank you very much. As another poster mentioned, well water tends to be rather hard and may also have a sulphur type odor. ETA: comparing Red Wing to Skaha Hills, Red Wing has the same situation - they have Penticton Sewer system tie-in, but no City Water. Wonder why they didn't achieve that? Could it be because it was cheaper and they weren't subject to the same health regulations as non-native lands are? Cheaper isn't always better.

[twobits]

The water system will be treated just like it is elsewhere in the valley. Right now it is just being pumped up to a temporary reservoir to water the grapes. I have never seen an inferior water treatment plant on a reserve. The Senkulmen industrial park is probably the fanciest water treatment facility (*bleep*) in southern BC. This is not to say that some reserves don't have treated water, but as soon as big time development comes, they get treated water. These developments happen with big time government grants, and governments are not going to risk an inferior treatment facility, but more importantly the engineer is not going to sign off on the project if the water quality is poor.

"The Senkulmen industrial park is probably the fanciest water treatment facility (*bleep*) in southern BC."

Have no reason to dispute your observation. It however does not mean that it is subject to Ministry of Health scrutiny does it? And if it is not maintained and monitored, there is no authority that can force them to. The correctional facility certainly would expect water quality to be maintained, and exert some pressure to ensure it was, but the reality is if water quality became an issue due to anything from technical failure to lack of band funds, the correctional facility would have to install their own purification system to meet gov't standards and there is nothing anyone could do to force the Band into compliance.

" but as soon as big time development comes, they get treated water. These developments happen with big time government grants, and governments are not going to risk an inferior treatment facility"

Thanks for making my point about level playing field. How many "big time developments" of housing and vineyard projects on private unserviced lands get "big time gov't grants" to build private water treatment facilities can you point to in the Okanagan?

"but more importantly the engineer is not going to sign off on the project if the water quality is poor."

And once again, after the engineer's sign off, what authority is going to ensure and enforce appropriate water quality? Am I over dramatizing potential water quality issues? Ya, probably, but it is one item that is a glaring example that people can understand about two different sets of rules. One need not look any further than West Bank development over the last two decades. Do you think there was not enough non reserve land for the commercial development that took place? Why do you suppose these commercial developments occurred on reserve lands? I'll answer it for you. It was because there was a cost advantage to doing so because a different set of rules. Have a look at the finances of West Bank (West Kelowna if you prefer), the infrastructure upgrade challenges they are facing, and half of the commercial and residential tax revenue goes to the Band office. The downtown core that does pay taxes has been decimated yet they and the residences that are on private lands pay for the roads, parks, libraries, etc for everyone.
I am not against First Nations developing their lands and being prosperous. What I can't buy into is selling them sewage or water treatment capacity a la carte and ignoring all of the other costs associated with increasing the local population and enjoying all of the public amenities that others have to pay for. And to be clear, this is not a Native land only issue. I have the same problem with the "west bench reserve residents" buying a la carte water, fire protection etc and enjoying all the other Penticton public amenities for free. They are residents, not tourists. Would it not be awesome to look at your tax assessment and say "I don't use the pool, the library, the art gallery, and don't go to the beach so please deduct those amounts from my taxes." That is what is happening with developments like Skaha Hills.
But it is politically incorrect to point that out.