Head Banging Druggie #timeforchange

[CTF]

It seems the past three maybe four elections there has been some sort of organization that has surfaced - it will be interesting if this one gets organized to the point it has some specific goals - something always easier said then done in Penticton

[fluffy]

Honestly I think that's a bit of a cop out. There are business that are booming, why are they not coming here...

Good question, but we'd need to know just what type of businesses you're referring to in order to speculate on the "whys".

Over the past 20 years of being in Pentciton and in Summerland is there is a serious detachment from our younger voters, not youth, but young adults. We have a City Council that is simply not promoting business development in our region like it needs to. Rather than being a booming city growing we are conditioned in to becoming a sleepy town. we need employment, affordable housing.

The larger businesses that were the major employers for young families, like Canwood, ExCel, Moduline, the Foundry, and countless smaller operations, all have fallen on hard times or even folded or moved due to the down-turn in the economy. A lot of these businesses had significant ties with the US, a country still struggling to recover. It's likely that we'll be a while waiting for their recovery to trickle down to our neighbourhood. Add to that the fact we are a little off the beaten track for access to markets outside the Okanagan and the question of just what sort of people would want to move here rings out loud and clear. It's easy enough to say that council should be promoting business but really, what sort of businesses are you talking about and what do we have that would make us attractive to them?

It's obvious that we could benefit from jobs and cheaper housing, the big question is "how?"

[twobits]

It's easy enough to say that council should be promoting business but really, what sort of businesses are you talking about and what do we have that would make us attractive to them?

It's obvious that we could benefit from jobs and cheaper housing, the big question is "how?"

I am waiting for madue's response to those questions. It will be interesting to read just exactly he/she would do that apparently every city council in every similar city has so blatantly missed or ignored.
The bulk of this council deserves the boot but not for their failure to house all the poor and attract 30/hr industry. And if anyone thinks a new slate of councillors with be able to do that with the authority and resources they are limited to, you are living in a pipe dream.

[Madhue]

I am waiting for madue's response to those questions. It will be interesting to read just exactly he/she would do that apparently every city council in every similar city has so blatantly missed or ignored.
The bulk of this council deserves the boot but not for their failure to house all the poor and attract 30/hr industry. And if anyone thinks a new slate of councillors with be able to do that with the authority and resources they are limited to, you are living in a pipe dream.

Sorry didn't realize you'd asked me a question earlier. Simply put, I'd rip a few pages out of Burnaby's plans from few years back.
Those who don't know why... Here
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/the- ... in-canada/

Lower the costs of doing business, for whatever reason we in this valley make businesses really pay through the nose to be here, we need to change that. We need to stop relying on the good looks and charm of this valley to hold our growth for us, it's not enough, encourage sustainable business and secondary business to develope here.
Plan for growth, no city council has done this effectively, they are victims of growth.
City council has to start thinking of being a big city and give up this pipe dream that if they *bleep* development enough someone we will be the Peter Pan of the nation and never grow up...
As for affordable housing, geesh... You do know that the city is sitting on an number or acres of undeveloped land, most lots could be developed by NPO's as co-operative housing as a social interprise. But we are not aggressive enough. That needs to change.

[fluffy]

We've done that Madhue. Social housing projects are all over the place, and new ones are still being built but that too is subject to the tight money of the current economy. The city instituted economic development programs offering new and existing businesses substantial savings on taxes and development charges, but again, businesses especially are subject to the economic conditions that are much larger in scale than Penticton alone. This is not a problem town council can solve, the best they can do is smooth the road for businesses that are willing to take the risk and they have done that. We're up against some pretty fierce competition here. Minimum wage in Penticton is huge money in other parts of the world, our labour is simply not competitively priced for global scale business. Our geographic situation makes it more expensive to do business provincially if our markets are at the coast.
I'll tell you what would be a good start though, a major effort on the "shop local" front. How much Penticton money goes north and south for products that are available locally?

[twobits]

Sorry didn't realize you'd asked me a question earlier. Simply put, I'd rip a few pages out of Burnaby's plans from few years back.
Those who don't know why... Here
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/the- ... in-canada/

Lower the costs of doing business, for whatever reason we in this valley make businesses really pay through the nose to be here, we need to change that. We need to stop relying on the good looks and charm of this valley to hold our growth for us, it's not enough, encourage sustainable business and secondary business to develope here.
Plan for growth, no city council has done this effectively, they are victims of growth.
City council has to start thinking of being a big city and give up this pipe dream that if they *bleep* development enough someone we will be the Peter Pan of the nation and never grow up...
As for affordable housing, geesh... You do know that the city is sitting on an number or acres of undeveloped land, most lots could be developed by NPO's as co-operative housing as a social interprise. But we are not aggressive enough. That needs to change.

Glad to see your response. Also glad that you looked deeper than simple soundbites we hear every election cycle. Fluff has answered and I would agree with what our feather boa'd contributor has said. (sorry fluff, can't get that image out of my head lol). I would however like to expand a bit but have to run right now. Maybe tomorrow.

[twobits]

Sorry didn't realize you'd asked me a question earlier. Simply put, I'd rip a few pages out of Burnaby's plans from few years back.
Those who don't know why... Here
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/the- ... in-canada/

OK, I was going to expand, but on reading your post again, I do see many sound bites so I have some questions first.
This five year old article says nothing about Burnaby's "plans" other than they are fiscally conservative. They buy a fire truck with cash and immediately start saving for the next one. I would agree and support that as prudent. Besides being fiscally prudent, what actual policies are you proposing Penticton emulates? I see none in your presented article?

Lower the costs of doing business, for whatever reason we in this valley make businesses really pay through the nose to be here, we need to change that.

Ok, I am all for that. But that really sounds like an election sound bite. Can you be more specific in how you would reduce costs for business? Lower property taxes on commercial land? Who in turn makes up that reduction? Homeowners? Do you think homeowners would not scream "subsidy"?

We need to stop relying on the good looks and charm of this valley to hold our growth for us, it's not enough, encourage sustainable business and secondary business to develope here.

Another sound bite. You say encourage sustainable and secondary but you do not suggest how. Can you please elaborate on how this is done otherwise you are just another candidate saying it without a solution.

Plan for growth, no city council has done this effectively, they are victims of growth.

Cities do plan for growth. Personally, I chime in when official community plans are being revised. I also chimed in when the regional plans for smart growth were being developed. Can you tell us what your input in these documented plans was? The problem is not a lack of planning as much as it is subsequent deviation from the plans. And for the most part, these deviations are made by elected officials that had no part in drafting the plans. They have no skin in the game and thus are not contradicting themselves. Now, having said that, things do change. No one has an absolute crystal ball. Neighbourhoods change, public sentiment changes, economic conditions change, so we cannot expect a planning document (todays vision for the future) to be a static and non evolving bible cast in stone. We are not victims of growth, we can only manage it in a way that makes the most sense for the current situation.

City council has to start thinking of being a big city and give up this pipe dream that if they *bleep* development enough someone we will be the Peter Pan of the nation and never grow up...

Because of the "bleep", I am not sure what you are saying here.

As for affordable housing, geesh... You do know that the city is sitting on an number or acres of undeveloped land, most lots could be developed by NPO's as co-operative housing as a social interprise. But we are not aggressive enough. That needs to change.

Really? Please do list all of the acres of undeveloped city land that would be suitable for social housing. An inventory of suitably serviced lands is easily obtained.
And just what is your definition of "social enterprise"? We all pay taxes....Federally, Provincially, and locally. You have to ask local voters if they think social housing costs are a Federal, Provincial or local responsibility. On the local Municipal level, there are a number of social housing initiatives. All the City could and can do is some token breaks on permit fee's and taxes. Beyond that, it is really out of jurisdiction and quite frankly, should be. City taxes collected should be for the operation of the city, not for financing social safety nets. To do so is as wrong as the city financing peoples home renovations to save energy. One of Litke's pets. And because Cities and Municipalities cannot, by legislation, run deficit budgets, the cost of borrowing and funding such initiatives comes straight from the operating budget. Take it from there and then what ya gonna do? Take your pick....cut firefighters, RCMP, road or park maintenance, library.....yada yada yada......or jack property taxes to satisfy your social conscience at every taxpayers expense.
That's why fledging candidates promises and sound bites are so tiring.

[Madhue]

OK, I was going to expand, but on reading your post again, I do see many sound bites so I have some questions first.
This five year old article says nothing about Burnaby's "plans" other than they are fiscally conservative. They buy a fire truck with cash and immediately start saving for the next one. I would agree and support that as prudent. Besides being fiscally prudent, what actual policies are you proposing Penticton emulates? I see none in your presented article?

Buraby has forethought, they save for what they wont and buy it, they don't take out huge loans that cost them vast amount of interest. Creating budgeting principles for Department Heads with the opportunity for them to control their budgets and encourage them to save for Future Capital Expenses. Most Governments and their departments Federal, Provincial and Municipal are encouraged to zero out their budgets or go slightly over their respective budgets by end of fiscal year end, the thought is is the money is not exhausted they get less the coming year. This is a fiscal culture that leads us away from responsible financial planning.

Can you be more specific in how you would reduce costs for business? Lower property taxes on commercial land? Who in turn makes up that reduction? Homeowners? Do you think homeowners would not scream "subsidy"?

We need to see better investment in Commercial Parks, City will need to invest in building better infrastructure to attract development of Commercial and Industrial Parks. Making the Business a Priority here will mean lowering the taxes of businesses, small and large, create intensive packages that we can flog to businesses to attract them to Penticton. For this I'd look at what the City of Toronto is doing specifically. Their Imagination, Manufacturing, Technology Incentive Program. It makes sense and offers some real solutions that are attractive to business over a reasonable duration of time. It encourages development and sustainability.

http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/conte ... d60f89RCRD

Truth is Penticton is Not aggressive enough at soliciting business, in fact we are the exact opposite and we need to start educating the residents on that.
As for the costs, well most of it is already there, there is this golden idea out there that if we do something new like cut businesses taxes we have to increase it upon the home owners, we don't. We budget better, we trim some fat, maybe we have rocks in the garden vs smelly flowers. There's always a way its silliness to think otherwise, there's also Federal and Provincial Grants available to assist in the development of programs incentive packages.

Another sound bite. You say encourage sustainable and secondary but you do not suggest how. Can you please elaborate on how this is done otherwise you are just another candidate saying it without a solution.

Far from a Sound Bite its sound logic. Our Role is not to Decide what the industry standards are but solicited strong business here.... Our role is to make this Valley attractive not act like we are the Dragons Den... you claim is a cop out and unfounded.

Because of the "bleep", I am not sure what you are saying here.

I'm pretty sure the general cadence is there, there is a general phobia of development in Penticton, we need to conquer that fear. Its pollyanna, to believe other wise.

as for listing of lots and such in the City... please do your own homework.
http://mapping.penticton.ca/pentictonproduction/

land lots listed as P2 that don't have a ball park or swing set fall into that category along with other properties. Please don't pretend such lands don't exist.

[JasonBC]

Too many old people who are out of touch have -way- too much say in this entire valley, that's what it boils down too, just kick back and enjoy life, let the new blood run things, unless you were grossly incompetent in your lives your set anyways to just enjoy yourselves.

Sure the new blood might not have all the answers but -anything- is better then what is currently going on here, the old guard had their chance, all they did was make things worst every single year, it's time for a new approach.

Frankly in my mind after 50 you should be barred from politics(and yes that includes me when a long time from now I'm 50), let the new generation take over and let them decide their future, there is no way you have any clue anymore what is important or trending.

I'll never forgot a conversation with Oliver's mayor where he said "things have worked in this town like this for xx amount of years, we like it and we don't need change"

yup, that's the kind of person you want in politics..... Penticton doesn't seem much different.

[Madhue]

Too many old people who are out of touch have -way- too much say in this entire valley, that's what it boils down too, just kick back and enjoy life, let the new blood run things, unless you were grossly incompetent in your lives your set anyways to just enjoy yourselves.

I agree makes me cringe thinking about Vasilaki running for Mayor.

[WTTG]

Too many old people who are out of touch have -way- too much say in this entire valley, that's what it boils down too, just kick back and enjoy life, let the new blood run things, unless you were grossly incompetent in your lives your set anyways to just enjoy yourselves.
. . .

Old fart here. I’ve said it before, ‘The young people in the Pentiction area have the demographic majority.’

http://www.penticton.ca/EN/main/business/economic-development/about-penticton/demographics.html

So stop whining and blaming us fogies for your state. Get your butts in there and use your franchise. Goes for almost everywhere in Canada. You have to take over, not ‘take back,’ and I for one will be happy when you’re completely running things.

[twobits]

[quote="Madhue"][/quote]

I had forgotten about this thread. Despite your best efforts, all I see in your diatribe is ....we need....we should. You have provided zero on how it is accomplished, how you would do it, or how it would be financed. If you think you have a path, throw your hat in the ring and present an actual plan. And one that is fully costed as well. Heck, even a ball park costing. Until then, you are nothing but an armchair mayor with some ideas and no idea how you would actually put them it into play. Naive would be the most polite way to say it. As if you have the answer that so many have overlooked.

[Madhue]

I had forgotten about this thread. Despite your best efforts, all I see in your diatribe is ....we need....we should. You have provided zero on how it is accomplished, how you would do it, or how it would be financed. If you think you have a path, throw your hat in the ring and present an actual plan. And one that is fully costed as well. Heck, even a ball park costing. Until then, you are nothing but an armchair mayor with some ideas and no idea how you would actually put them it into play. Naive would be the most polite way to say it. As if you have the answer that so many have overlooked.

Huh....? I'd love to answer some or all of what you've posted but it reads like you're using Siri and speaking with ice cubes in your mouth. As for why I don't run for council in Penticton... Simple I live in summerland, and unlike your last mayor that lived here I don't own land in penticton. Hence making me unable. Aside from that the others stumbling block would be dragging a population of Penticton out of the glory days of the 1980's. Or 50's as the case may be. The citizens need change, I think
We are seeing that rise up as it stands, I'm impressed with our own little okanagan version of an Arab Spring. Headingbannigdruggies :)

[Fancy]

I understood twobits quite well. You seem to have an opinion on how other cities should run their business. Maybe look to your own community to make life better.

[Madhue]

I understood twobits quite well. You seem to have an opinion on how other cities should run their business. Maybe look to your own community to make life better.

two it's has yet to offer a counter to my claims, he has yet to provide a viable argument that suggests what I claim is unreasonable, lacks rational thought or is plausible.... Just that it makes him uncomfortable therefore it's wrong.... Do you need twobits to translate that for you?