The Harder They Fall

[mrmagoo]

I'm not sure if anyone has commented on this yet.

I was disturbed to hear of the facts behind these charges. The charges involved one or more boys in Penticton subject to sexual assault - and I won't say more than that - and there was a history of prostitution-related acts in Thailand.

There are three things that are disturbing to me:

1. That a former City council member who is supposed to be "a pillar of society" was involved and yet he got elected and was respected prior to this - makes it hard to trust leaders doesn't it;
2. The impact this has on victims here in Canada and abroad;
3. An offender who is not uneducated or unsophisticated abused, likely for many years, rather than seeking help. Maybe it was narcissism - maybe it was privilege - I only wish that he had sought help or been stopped earlier.

What a train wreck. I hope the victims have some comfort in the sentence.

http://www.pentictonwesternnews.com/news/274940251.html

[fluffy]

I'll never understand why some people insist on obsessing over sexual crimes. This man has been tried and convicted and now must pay his debt to the courts. In addition he will bear a curse for the rest of his life the likes of which you and I will hopefully never experience. What possible good can come of talking it to death here? It just encourages the gossips and drama queens when they would be better off learning how to keep their big mouths shut.

[Tero]

I'll never understand why some people insist on obsessing over sexual crimes. This man has been tried and convicted and now must pay his debt to the courts. In addition he will bear a curse for the rest of his life the likes of which you and I will hopefully never experience. What possible good can come of talking it to death here? It just encourages the gossips and drama queens when they would be better off learning how to keep their big mouths shut.

Not to mention the trauma the unnamed victims (namely his poor kids, who are LOVELY children) have to endure for no fault of their own. :(

[Centurion]

Not to mention the trauma the unnamed victims (namely his poor kids, who are LOVELY children) have to endure for no fault of their own. :(

Perhaps the ex city Councillor should have thought of his family before committing two counts of sexual assault. I hope this scumbag is put on the sex offender registry list, his DNA collected, and he is declared a dangerous offender. I have sympathy for the victims of this disgusting piece of garbage, unlike his supporters in this forum.

[mrmagoo]

I'm commenting as I would on any topic, not obsessing. I also agree that he is paying the price and the photos show him walking alone. Maybe that is the end of it and people should shut up. Unfortunately it is part of a larger conversation on abuse. There is a reason people don't disclose that they are inclined to abuse kids and seek help. The feeling that this should be done without thinking about needed sociAl change doesn't move things forward much.

[fluffy]

The feeling that this should be done without thinking about needed sociAl change doesn't move things forward much.

But the reality is that these conversations rarely deal with how to bring about the needed social change, just about all of the time they are simple bloodthirst like Centurion's post, and like his will almost always try to brand anyone who doesn't want to pick up a pitch fork and join the mob as a "supporter", as if total committment to crucifiction is the only choice. It's lowbrow lynch mob mentality in its purest sense and serves no purpose other than to foster more of the same. It's also my experience that those who cry loudest for blood have plenty of dark secrets of their own.

We have a system in place to deal with sexual offenders, I say leave it to the professionals.

[mrmagoo]

I understand your point. Unfortunately life is not that neat and tidy. Victimization happens in the place not talked about whether due to stigma or distaste. The professionals can't deal with prevention without awareness and support. This is not just a story for one family. Nor is it based on salacious interest. It is more about the unchecked exercise of power and now, subsequent aversion.

[Gixxer]

But the reality is that these conversations rarely deal with how to bring about the needed social change, just about all of the time they are simple bloodthirst like Centurion's post, and like his will almost always try to brand anyone who doesn't want to pick up a pitch fork and join the mob as a "supporter", as if total committment to crucifiction is the only choice. It's lowbrow lynch mob mentality in its purest sense and serves no purpose other than to foster more of the same. It's also my experience that those who cry loudest for blood have plenty of dark secrets of their own.

We have a system in place to deal with sexual offenders, I say leave it to the professionals.

Its very odd it seems this has struck a nerve with you.

[fluffy]

I understand your point. Unfortunately life is not that neat and tidy. Victimization happens in the place not talked about whether due to stigma or distaste. The professionals can't deal with prevention without awareness and support. This is not just a story for one family. Nor is it based on salacious interest. It is more about the unchecked exercise of power and now, subsequent aversion.

My point is what benefit does the kind if muckraking that is already starting here serve? We see the same thing happen every time a thread like this starts, the bloodlust takes over and nothing productive happens.

[fluffy]

Its very odd it seems this has struck a nerve with you.

And I find it odd that it hasn't struck a nerve with you. These threads always go south in a hurry, turning into a burn-him-at-the-stake free for all. Tell me, what good can come of it ? The man will pay for his actions for the rest of his life, is that not enough?

[mrmagoo]

Yes, it is odd how it goes south and I appreciate the course check fluffy.

It is such a polarizing/taboo issue that people somehow can't keep a logical course of thought with it all. Just for raising it I've been blamed for being overly interested and for muck-racking when, really, my intention is to raise the issue and say, hey, how did this happen. And then, why did the victimizer not seek help? Maybe narcissism and just being a "terrible person", but maybe he was once a victim and the shame never got addressed. Lots of research on that.

If you are reading this and were victimized and feel the urge to act out where the heck can you safely go for help without risking ostracism? If Mr. Leahman rose to be a pillar of society while hiding this dark side maybe society is too enabling of the characteristics that allow "success" without emotional development or the room to address the dark corners.

For clarity, I have been fortunate in my life and have neither been a victim nor victimizer of sexual abuse. I have enough life, personal development and work experience to believe that maybe victim becoming victimizer is related and it is a preventable tragedy and maybe there is room for some social responsibility to intervene or give resources to the problem.

Psychology is a real thing and I don't believe most people are inherently evil, although there are some with sociopathy/psychopathy that defy any intervention.

[Centurion]

But the reality is that these conversations rarely deal with how to bring about the needed social change, just about all of the time they are simple bloodthirst like Centurion's post, and like his will almost always try to brand anyone who doesn't want to pick up a pitch fork and join the mob as a "supporter", as if total committment to crucifiction is the only choice. It's lowbrow lynch mob mentality in its purest sense and serves no purpose other than to foster more of the same. It's also my experience that those who cry loudest for blood have plenty of dark secrets of their own.

We have a system in place to deal with sexual offenders, I say leave it to the professionals.

Just to be clear, I don't advocate the use of violence against anyone and that includes the despicable former Councilor. Shame and social ostracism on the other hand are highly underrated. We are talking about a predator here, the more people who know he is a predator, the less likely someone else will become his victim.

[mrmagoo]

He can't be the only one. I would be more concerned about the ones that we don't know about than him at this point given that he is in jail for the next two years and probation for two more years after than and he is a registered sex offender.

I doubt he'll return to Penticton on release so I don't know that the local ostracism will be all that effective, although the internet will and that is already done.

Two Canadian studies, which randomly sampled 750 women and 750 men between the ages of 18 and 27 years, found that 32% of the women and 15.6% of the men had experienced "unwanted sexual contact" before the age of 17 years. http://focus.psychiatryonline.org/artic ... leid=53036

I would say that being able to self-identify as a paedophile and seek effective and confidential treatment would be a high priority given that the research seems to show brain differences and a often a history of abuse. Something should be set up for this to be accessible if it is not already.

In the U.S., laws that went into effect in the 1990s require therapists and physicians to report to child protective services (and other authorities that vary by state) anyone they believe poses a threat to a child. The legislation trumps patient-doctor confidentiality in these circumstances. Since reporting a potential pedophile results in legal action, the law has deterred many pedophiles from voluntarily seeking psychiatric help—which troubles some researchers, since the disorder can be easier to prevent than treat. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... hilia.html

I'm not sure what the laws in Canada are on this, but they are probably similar. Given that we have denial, ostracism, and "leave it to the professionals" and laws that may criminalize seeking professional help, I would say that this issue needs to come to the forefront, not be pushed back into the closet.

[fluffy]

Just to be clear, I don't advocate the use of violence against anyone and that includes the despicable former Councilor. Shame and social ostracism on the other hand are highly underrated. We are talking about a predator here, the more people who know he is a predator, the less likely someone else will become his victim.

Just to be clear, what you are advocating is injecting more pain and suffering into a situation that already has more than enough. Not exactly the moral high ground there.

Don't get me wrong, in no way am I condoning or even attempting to reduce the severity of Mr. Leaman's offenses, I just refuse to take part in any sort of hate campaign against anyone. Not that it makes a huge difference, there will always be people who enjoy that sort of thing.

[twobits]

Don't get me wrong, in no way am I condoning or even attempting to reduce the severity of Mr. Leaman's offenses, I just refuse to take part in any sort of hate campaign against anyone. Not that it makes a huge difference, there will always be people who enjoy that sort of thing.

Don't feel special fluff. Some months back I received a PM with regards to a similar pervert busted thread. I don't recall which one it was. What I do know is that I would never post in support of a perpetrator of sex crimes. What rational person would? Yet if you so much as suggest people let due process take it's course instead of picking up torches and pitch forks and marching on the castle....you are labeled a supporter of sex crimes or pedophillia. The PM I received expressly and graphically hoped for my demise as a human being for being a supporter of a sex offender. Coincidentally, it is the same poster here accusing you.

You are one of the most level headed posters on these threads and after this attack on you, my anger has turned into concern. Concern that perhaps this person may have unresolved issues of their own or that of someone very close to them.