Houseboat Fatality in Magna Bay

[intheknow]

in fairness to all!!! No one so far has been charged or found to be at fault.One can find it easy to assume alcohol was at fault or speed or both?? But lets wait to see on this deal please.

[Advocate]

to be fair, I have edited the post.

[Merry]

There have been a lot of assumptions that alcohol was involved in this incident, but young people at the wheel of a powerful speedboat do not always need alcohol as an incentive to go too fast. The fact that charges have not yet been laid seems to suggest that alcohol may not have been a factor in this situation. That said, it would also appear that the houseboat was sitting out in the middle of the lake with no lights on, and if that was the case then that is equally irresponsible. Lakes can be pitch black at night, and the people on the houseboat were sitting ducks if they had all their lights off on a lake that was crowded with other boats. So it appears that there may be blame to be had on both sides in this tragic situation.
The problem is that every time things like this happen there is a clamour for tighter legislation and more police presence, but you can't legislate stupidity. All extra regulations and enforcement acheive are more headaches and hassels for responsible boat owners, while the irresponsible ones continue to be irresponsible. Police cannot be in all places at all times, and laws are only as good as they are enforceable. Raising public awareness about boating safety might be the best solution to try to reach the minds of some of the idiots out there, although sadly accidents such as this will occasionally continue to happen as long as irresponsible idiots continue to walk the earth!

[Advocate]

There have been a lot of assumptions that alcohol was involved in this incident, but young people at the wheel of a powerful speedboat do not always need alcohol as an incentive to go too fast.

True, but I know this lake well after over 25 years of holidays there. Houseboat = party = alcohol. I'm going to say you'd be hard-pressed to find a boater without alcohol on board in the summer time. Thank God most of them are responsible not to drink too much, or lucky to escape accidents and injury. I have heard that in that little town where the Provincial park is, the liquor store has the highest annual sales in BC - their busy times are the summer months when people are on holidays there.

The fact that charges have not yet been laid seems to suggest that alcohol may not have been a factor in this situation.

Not necessarily.

That said, it would also appear that the houseboat was sitting out in the middle of the lake with no lights on, and if that was the case then that is equally irresponsible.

The news reports that all lights were on on both boats. And the boat wasn't in the 'middle of the lake', it was nearer to shore.

Lakes can be pitch black at night, and the people on the houseboat were sitting ducks if they had all their lights off on a lake that was crowded with other boats. So it appears that there may be blame to be had on both sides in this tragic situation.

If. But that isn't the case. There is no blame on the house boat driver who was still in my mind. The guy (allegedly) doing doughnuts in the dark would hold the blame, don't you think? What grown man does something like this outside the influence of drugs or alcohol?

The problem is that every time things like this happen there is a clamour for tighter legislation and more police presence, but you can't legislate stupidity. All extra regulations and enforcement acheive are more headaches and hassels for responsible boat owners, while the irresponsible ones continue to be irresponsible.

The responsible ones have nothing to worry about but the odd check by RCMP. The legislation is already there. It needs to be better enforced, so that those who are irresponsible are stopped before tragedy happens. Won't ever catch every one, but as I say, police presence seems to be a strong deterrent, which is why they are usually present for these things.

Police cannot be in all places at all times, and laws are only as good as they are enforceable.

They are not enforceable if they are not present to enforce them.
Police have the power to enforce laws on provincial lakes. They do not need to be there '[at all times', however, longweekend, fireworks, you must agree that would be a good time to be there.

Raising public awareness about boating safety might be the best solution to try to reach the minds of some of the idiots out there, although sadly accidents such as this will occasionally continue to happen as long as irresponsible idiots continue to walk the earth!

No, there is no forcing the change in behaviour of irresponsible people, through law enforcement or accident. I would think irresponsible people would be more careful in police presence though.

[Lady Pinot Blank]

At least 27 empty beer and alcoholic cooler cans were found in the speedboat that crashed head-on into a houseboat on B.C.'s Shuswap Lake last month, killing one man.

According to a search warrant filed at a Kamloops court, witnesses told police that Leon Reinbrecht was "doing doughnuts" in his speedboat shortly before he crashed into the houseboat driven by Ken Brown on July 3.

Brown was killed in the crash, and Reinbrecht's speedboat became deeply embedded in the houseboat.

In court documents requesting access to Reinbrecht's blood alcohol results, a Chase RCMP officer wrote that police searched his boat after the crash and found empty cans of Budweiser and Palm Bay vodka cooler, as well as empty Alexander Keith's and Dos Equis beer bottles.

Police say in the documents that they also discovered a bag of marijuana, covered in bloody fingerprints, beside the speedboat.

A witness told police that she and another passenger on the speedboat had been drinking.

The documents say an officer noticed an alcoholic odour when speaking with Reinbrecht after the crash.

When police spoke with Reinbrecht the next day, the documents say he told them that he had one beer after the crash, while his boat was still embedded in the houseboat.

Another boater out on the water that night told police that she saw Reinbrecht's boat doing doughnuts before the crash, and said he came within 4.5 metres of her boat at high speed.

The documents say that one houseboat passenger told police that he was standing on the boat's deck before the crash, and saw the speedboat heading straight towards him at high speed.

Another passenger told police that she heard Brown shout "(expletive), he's going to hit," just before the crash.

Reinbrecht told CTV News on July 5 that he didn't see the houseboat in the dark, and didn't realize it was there until he hit it.

Passengers on the houseboat told police that the houseboat had its running lights and interior lights switched on during the crash.

None of the allegations in the documents have been proven in court, and Reinbrecht has not been charged.

I don't understand why charges have not been laid but I guess it takes time. The speed boat driver says he had a beer after the crash while sill in the house boat. One hell of a way to drop in for a beer.

[Fritzthecat]

.....
I don't understand why charges have not been laid but I guess it takes time. The speed boat driver says he had a beer after the crash while sill in the house boat. One hell of a way to drop in for a beer.

The Fuzz wants to make sure the charges stick so they have to make sure the case is airtight before proceeding.

[rlaboss]

No breathalyzer test?! No blood alcohol taken?! That's what they're saying on the news.
I would assume that would be one of the first things police would do.

[Advocate]

There have been a lot of assumptions that alcohol was involved in this incident, but young people at the wheel of a powerful speedboat do not always need alcohol as an incentive to go too fast. The fact that charges have not yet been laid seems to suggest that alcohol may not have been a factor in this situation.

Safe to say some assumptions are pretty safe to make?

[intheknow]

This is now tragic beyound belief.As bad as this deal was to begin with and now the Bungeling of the RCMP and the Now the hospital staff??I tell you what !!this guy,s(dead victim) family and friends are going to be more chocked than we can imagine after getting this kick in the nuts news
What the hell is wrong with our so called professional people.NO breathalizer taken by the cops?
No physical challange by the police(walk straight line,point to your nose etc etc) and NOW after the police reqeusting blood sampl;es the GOOF balls at the hospital took no blood samples.???WTH?
Its rather apparent now after reading the news this is guy was one bad a$$ dude who deserves 20 years in jail and because of our stupid police and hospital staff this crimminal will get off Scott free
what is this world coming to????

[silentwitness33]

This is now tragic beyound belief.As bad as this deal was to begin with and now the Bungeling of the RCMP and the Now the hospital staff??I tell you what !!this guy,s(dead victim) family and friends are going to be more chocked than we can imagine after getting this kick in the nuts news
What the hell is wrong with our so called professional people.NO breathalizer taken by the cops?
No physical challange by the police(walk straight line,point to your nose etc etc) and NOW after the police reqeusting blood sampl;es the GOOF balls at the hospital took no blood samples.???WTH?
Its rather apparent now after reading the news this is guy was one bad a$$ dude who deserves 20 years in jail and because of our stupid police and hospital staff this crimminal will get off Scott free
what is this world coming to????

There are circumstances which exist, because of Case Law within the Criminal Code of Canada, which sometimes prevent police from obtaining breath samples or blood samples from a person suspected of operating a vehicle, or vessel, while impaired. Having said that, police have other tools at their disposal for obtaining the evidence required to charge someone. And charges can not be filed against someone until such evidence has been gathered. The fact that media has reported on a Search Warrant which was filed at the Kamloops Court house suggests that police are doing just that. This also suggests the investigation is ongoing. The media only reports bits and pieces of the story; usually only the bits and pieces which serve to stir people's reactions (see above quote). Anti-police and anti-hospital staff comments posted here are unwarranted, unfair, and only serve as negative propoganda. Let's have patience and allow the real people "in the know" to complete their investigation.

[mammamoon]

This is now tragic beyound belief.As bad as this deal was to begin with and now the Bungeling of the RCMP and the Now the hospital staff??I tell you what !!this guy,s(dead victim) family and friends are going to be more chocked than we can imagine after getting this kick in the nuts news
What the hell is wrong with our so called professional people.NO breathalizer taken by the cops?
No physical challange by the police(walk straight line,point to your nose etc etc) and NOW after the police reqeusting blood sampl;es the GOOF balls at the hospital took no blood samples.???WTH?
Its rather apparent now after reading the news this is guy was one bad a$$ dude who deserves 20 years in jail and because of our stupid police and hospital staff this crimminal will get off Scott free
what is this world coming to????

There are circumstances which exist, because of Case Law within the Criminal Code of Canada, which sometimes prevent police from obtaining breath samples or blood samples from a person suspected of operating a vehicle, or vessel, while impaired. Having said that, police have other tools at their disposal for obtaining the evidence required to charge someone. And charges can not be filed against someone until such evidence has been gathered. The fact that media has reported on a Search Warrant which was filed at the Kamloops Court house suggests that police are doing just that. This also suggests the investigation is ongoing. The media only reports bits and pieces of the story; usually only the bits and pieces which serve to stir people's reactions (see above quote). Anti-police and anti-hospital staff comments posted here are unwarranted, unfair, and only serve as negative propoganda. Let's have patience and allow the real people "in the know" to complete their investigation.

I'd say let us show no mercy for this man who brutally killed an innocent person, who WAS following the rules of the lake (ie running lights on/interior lights on). We need to stop protecting the rights and feelings of these shameless criminals, who abhorently disregard the safety and lives of others to get their kicks. This is no accident, this is pre-meditated manslaughter in my mind. This man chose to drink, smoke drugs and operate a recreational vehical like a weapon. This man should be strung up and let out to dry, and be the poster boy for what happens when your a complete ignorent *bleep*, who thinks he is above the law.

Hmpf!

[intheknow]

This is now tragic beyound belief.As bad as this deal was to begin with and now the Bungeling of the RCMP and the Now the hospital staff??I tell you what !!this guy,s(dead victim) family and friends are going to be more chocked than we can imagine after getting this kick in the nuts news
What the hell is wrong with our so called professional people.NO breathalizer taken by the cops?
No physical challange by the police(walk straight line,point to your nose etc etc) and NOW after the police reqeusting blood sampl;es the GOOF balls at the hospital took no blood samples.???WTH?
Its rather apparent now after reading the news this is guy was one bad a$$ dude who deserves 20 years in jail and because of our stupid police and hospital staff this crimminal will get off Scott free
what is this world coming to????

There are circumstances which exist, because of Case Law within the Criminal Code of Canada, which sometimes prevent police from obtaining breath samples or blood samples from a person suspected of operating a vehicle, or vessel, while impaired. Having said that, police have other tools at their disposal for obtaining the evidence required to charge someone. And charges can not be filed against someone until such evidence has been gathered. The fact that media has reported on a Search Warrant which was filed at the Kamloops Court house suggests that police are doing just that. This also suggests the investigation is ongoing. The media only reports bits and pieces of the story; usually only the bits and pieces which serve to stir people's reactions (see above quote). Anti-police and anti-hospital staff comments posted here are unwarranted, unfair, and only serve as negative propoganda. Let's have patience and allow the real people "in the know" to complete their investigation.

One-There is NO SUCH law that prevents a cop from taking a breath sample.There is a possibility that is person is too injured to be able but this was not the case in this case.
Two-The cops THEMSELVES(not media) claim they had the required warrent sufficient to require the hospital to get blood samples and was told by the hospital that this had happened.(which we now know was bogus)
I hope for the dead mans family,s sake the cops can somehow still pull a rabbit out of a hat and nail this crimminal

[silentwitness33]

This is now tragic beyound belief.As bad as this deal was to begin with and now the Bungeling of the RCMP and the Now the hospital staff??I tell you what !!this guy,s(dead victim) family and friends are going to be more chocked than we can imagine after getting this kick in the nuts news
What the hell is wrong with our so called professional people.NO breathalizer taken by the cops?
No physical challange by the police(walk straight line,point to your nose etc etc) and NOW after the police reqeusting blood sampl;es the GOOF balls at the hospital took no blood samples.???WTH?
Its rather apparent now after reading the news this is guy was one bad a$$ dude who deserves 20 years in jail and because of our stupid police and hospital staff this crimminal will get off Scott free
what is this world coming to????

There are circumstances which exist, because of Case Law within the Criminal Code of Canada, which sometimes prevent police from obtaining breath samples or blood samples from a person suspected of operating a vehicle, or vessel, while impaired. Having said that, police have other tools at their disposal for obtaining the evidence required to charge someone. And charges can not be filed against someone until such evidence has been gathered. The fact that media has reported on a Search Warrant which was filed at the Kamloops Court house suggests that police are doing just that. This also suggests the investigation is ongoing. The media only reports bits and pieces of the story; usually only the bits and pieces which serve to stir people's reactions (see above quote). Anti-police and anti-hospital staff comments posted here are unwarranted, unfair, and only serve as negative propoganda. Let's have patience and allow the real people "in the know" to complete their investigation.

One-There is NO SUCH law that prevents a cop from taking a breath sample.There is a possibility that is person is too injured to be able but this was not the case in this case.
Two-The cops THEMSELVES(not media) claim they had the required warrent sufficient to require the hospital to get blood samples and was told by the hospital that this had happened.(which we now know was bogus)
I hope for the dead mans family,s sake the cops can somehow still pull a rabbit out of a hat and nail this crimminal

"Intheknow": Please read my post again. You will note that I said "Case Law". For your information, knowledge, and education perform a google query on Impaired Case Law in Canada. You will receive an abundance of information regarding Case Law precedence. There are Criminal Code Statutes in Canada and then there is Case Law which is the application of the Criminal Code Statutes. It is within these Case Laws that police must excercise their authorities based upon the precedence of cases which have occurred across Canada in the past. Indeed, there are a multitude of scenarios where police cannot obtain a breath sample or a blood sample from an individual suspected of operating a vehicle, or vessel, while impaired.

Things are not as clear or as simple as you may like to believe. For that reason, be patient and trust the people who do this everyday. They need your support and not your criticism. There are a myriad of circumstances which have undoubtedly made this a difficult investigation. Your lack of understanding of the law only misguides others. It is unfair to criticize the police or hospital staff when you are unaware of all the facts or the factors which come into play. It is especially inappropriate to berate them.

I too sincerely hope the individual responsible for this event is held accountable for their actions. Time will tell.

[intheknow]

I say its my right to berate anyone I fell deserving of it.I see too many RCMP and TOO many medical screw ups in this day and age and there,s no excuse for it.In BC there is no LAW or Case law that disallows a RCMP officer to ask for a breath sample in BC where death or property damage is involved especially when there are signs of alcohol present.NOT sure why you seem to think this is so but you are incorrect.The cops on the scene
smelt alcohol on his breath,They saw empty booze containers in the boat, they had to know he was drinking however they let him go to the hospital to be checked out and had asked for blood samples be taken.That there in lies a big mistake on their part .Like I say to repeat myself I hope somehow somewhere they can pull the bunny out of the hat and lay some serious charges against this crimminal but I wont hold my breath

[intheknow]

THE TRUTH COMES OUT:
and my apologies to hospital workers who dod not screw up as was first indicated by several partys
IT WAS just another RCMP screw up of(in my opinion) of dumb lazy A$$ cops

QUOTE:

Police have the authority to request a blood sample if they have reasonable grounds to suspect the patient is impaired. However, the patient must consent to such a request, and be deemed physically and mentally “capable” by a doctor before the sample can be drawn.

If a patient refuses, police must then obtain a warrant.

RCMP Cpl. Dan Moskaluk said no blood demand was made by police in the Reinbrecht case. Instead, officers sought a warrant to obtain blood they believed had been taken from the suspect upon his admission to the hospital emergency ward.