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H.S.T.

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Re: H.S.T.

Postby Rwede » Nov 19th, 2012, 9:28 am

keith1612 wrote:
Fisher-Dude wrote:

There's the bomb. You guys believed the BS from Vanderscam. The low income family of 4 received $920 in HST rebates. That family would have to spend over $13,000 on items not previously subjected to PST (pop, chips, and McHappy meals) to use up that rebate, which is impossible for a low income family. Thus, low income families were far ahead with the HST, actually pocketing money via their rebates. But, you guys took that away from them because you didn't bother to understand how the HST was designed to work. Way to go.



Well as a low income earner with a family of 2 and I sure as hell did not recieve $460 from the govt.
Skip who got the odd rebate cheques and tell me how this helped the average day to day taxpaying worker.
You can not because it didn't.
Go back to doing taxes for rich corporations and stop trying to fool us.
We will all be happier and better off when it's gone.
An I suppose it's hard to consider a family of 4 may buy a $15000 used car.
Seems that is under the new tax isn't it.

Oh ya and I guess it would be terribly hard to think a family of 4 wouldn't say buy a


If you weren't wise enough to check off that you were applying for the HST rebate on your tax return, I guess you have yourself to blame for not getting it, eh?

That used car had 7% PST on it before, and 7% provincial portion of HST on it after. There's no change in provincial costs to the low income family under either tax. Ask the feds about their portion of GST, which would be the only change, not the provincial government's share. You've got your taxation jurisdictions messed up.
You are not stupid, I just think you have bad luck when thinking.

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But that is not unusual."
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Re: H.S.T.

Postby NAB » Nov 19th, 2012, 7:31 pm

I guess you missed the part concerning taxes on private sales of vehicles? As for your comment about a low income family of 4 receiving an extra $920.00 in "rebates" because BC went to the HST, define "low income" and produce the related numbers before you make such a blatant statement.

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Re: H.S.T.

Postby keith1612 » Nov 19th, 2012, 10:32 pm

Rwede wrote:
If you weren't wise enough to check off that you were applying for the HST rebate on your tax return, I guess you have yourself to blame for not getting it, eh?

That used car had 7% PST on it before, and 7% provincial portion of HST on it after. There's no change in provincial costs to the low income family under either tax. Ask the feds about their portion of GST, which would be the only change, not the provincial government's share. You've got your taxation jurisdictions messed up.


buying a used car under the old system was only subject to 1 tax,
yes i had my taxes done correctly, find a better reason to explain why im paying more please.
so far not 1 of you HST lovers have posted a real gain for the workers of BC.
keep trying.
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Re: H.S.T.

Postby twobits » Nov 20th, 2012, 7:57 am

keith1612 wrote:
Rwede wrote:
If you weren't wise enough to check off that you were applying for the HST rebate on your tax return, I guess you have yourself to blame for not getting it, eh?

That used car had 7% PST on it before, and 7% provincial portion of HST on it after. There's no change in provincial costs to the low income family under either tax. Ask the feds about their portion of GST, which would be the only change, not the provincial government's share. You've got your taxation jurisdictions messed up.


buying a used car under the old system was only subject to 1 tax,
yes i had my taxes done correctly, find a better reason to explain why im paying more please.
so far not 1 of you HST lovers have posted a real gain for the workers of BC.
keep trying.


Your used car example is a lame duck. It had nothing to do with the HST. Few yrs back when we bought a used vehicle privately, we paid only the 7% PST when we registered the vehicle. At the same time, if we purchased the used vehicle from a dealer we paid both the PST and the GST for a total of 12%. Car dealers complained that it gave "curbers" an unfair advantage and the gov't saw a new source of revenue so the law was changed so that we paid 12% when we registered a privately purchased vehicle. Along came the HST and it changed nothing. Still 12%.
As to your question about no one posting any gains for the workers of BC, how bout this. Unless we are kids or are retired, we are all "workers". Doesn't matter if we are union, nonunion, wage, salary, self employed etc. We all work and pay taxes either thru income taxes or consumption taxes. Workers at the lower end of the pay scale pay less in income tax and cosume less because they make less ergo they pay less in cumulative tax. The opposite for those at higher pay scales....more income tax, more consumption, higher cumulative tax. Everyone paid more, high and low earners. Difference though was that the lower earners got back HST rebates that actually lowered their cumulative tax payments to lower than what they paid before the HST. The higher earners got no such rebates and thus paid more in taxes than prior to the HST. This is a perfect world from a socialist point of view no? Low income pay less, high income pay more.
What our"informed" voters saw was something totally different. They saw an extra 5% tacked on to many things they did not have to pay the GST on previously and automatically assumed they were paying more in cumulative taxes when that was not neccessarily true. In order to make a truly informed decision, and vote, it would require each "worker" or household to actually look at their annual consumption of items now subject to the added 5%, sum that up and then see what the offset in tthe HST rebate provided. Most blindly or convieniently missed seeing the rebate portion and only focused on the 5%. Vanderscammed.
If you found yourself at the cut off point with no rebate, you broke even. If I recall, the breakeven point was a family income of around 50k so if you voted against the HST with a family income of 50K or less.......you shot yourself squarely in the azz financially as well as removing any right to claiming to be a socially progressive person who believes lower income people should bare a lower tax burden and higher income should pay more. Sound like the NDP? This is why they should never be in power and also why tax policy should never be set by popular vote. Most people can't or won't even balance their own cheque book never mind a personal assessment of how the HST ACTUALLY impacted them personally. If you make more than 50k and voted against the HST, you did so purely for personal financial gain and ignored the efficiencies of application and the competative disadvantage it removed from BC employers.
But Keith somehow I don't think you are going to wrap your head around this simple explanation and will continue to beat the drum. And I will continue to lobby for competancy testing in order to aquire the right to vote for anything more important than what to have for dinner tonight.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

If we could just tax "stupid", there would be no government deficit
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Re: H.S.T.

Postby keith1612 » Nov 20th, 2012, 9:14 am

twobits wrote:
keith1612 wrote:

Your used car example is a lame duck. It had nothing to do with the HST. Few yrs back when we bought a used vehicle privately, we paid only the 7% PST when we registered the vehicle. At the same time, if we purchased the used vehicle from a dealer we paid both the PST and the GST for a total of 12%. Car dealers complained that it gave "curbers" an unfair advantage and the gov't saw a new source of revenue so the law was changed so that we paid 12% when we registered a privately purchased vehicle. Along came the HST and it changed nothing. Still 12%.
As to your question about no one posting any gains for the workers of BC, how bout this. Unless we are kids or are retired, we are all "workers". Doesn't matter if we are union, nonunion, wage, salary, self employed etc. We all work and pay taxes either thru income taxes or consumption taxes. Workers at the lower end of the pay scale pay less in income tax and cosume less because they make less ergo they pay less in cumulative tax. The opposite for those at higher pay scales....more income tax, more consumption, higher cumulative tax. Everyone paid more, high and low earners. Difference though was that the lower earners got back HST rebates that actually lowered their cumulative tax payments to lower than what they paid before the HST. The higher earners got no such rebates and thus paid more in taxes than prior to the HST. This is a perfect world from a socialist point of view no? Low income pay less, high income pay more.
What our"informed" voters saw was something totally different. They saw an extra 5% tacked on to many things they did not have to pay the GST on previously and automatically assumed they were paying more in cumulative taxes when that was not neccessarily true. In order to make a truly informed decision, and vote, it would require each "worker" or household to actually look at their annual consumption of items now subject to the added 5%, sum that up and then see what the offset in tthe HST rebate provided. Most blindly or convieniently missed seeing the rebate portion and only focused on the 5%. Vanderscammed.
If you found yourself at the cut off point with no rebate, you broke even. If I recall, the breakeven point was a family income of around 50k so if you voted against the HST with a family income of 50K or less.......you shot yourself squarely in the azz financially as well as removing any right to claiming to be a socially progressive person who believes lower income people should bare a lower tax burden and higher income should pay more. Sound like the NDP? This is why they should never be in power and also why tax policy should never be set by popular vote. Most people can't or won't even balance their own cheque book never mind a personal assessment of how the HST ACTUALLY impacted them personally. If you make more than 50k and voted against the HST, you did so purely for personal financial gain and ignored the efficiencies of application and the competative disadvantage it removed from BC employers.
But Keith somehow I don't think you are going to wrap your head around this simple explanation and will continue to beat the drum. And I will continue to lobby for competancy testing in order to aquire the right to vote for anything more important than what to have for dinner tonight.



i love when you guys come in and say holy all the voters are ignorant,uninformed and wrong and i know better.
get over yourselves.
the BC people saw a scam and recognized a scam and voted against it.
what a great idea of our government you have created, they did this to help the people and give money back.
i would hate to see you guys in power deciding what the people have right to a opinion on.
whatever each individual persons reasons were to vote out this tax was their own rights.
sure it was a easy efficient tax, you no longer had to sit and remove labor costs and tax them on a lower rate.
almost every single service you purchase has parts and labor and alot of the time the labor is more.
a $200 fuel pump can be a easy $300 in labor, nice bonus now for the government.
the system was working just fine before until the feds wanted more money.
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Re: H.S.T.

Postby Rwede » Nov 20th, 2012, 12:19 pm

keith1612 wrote:
sure it was a easy efficient tax, you no longer had to sit and remove labor costs and tax them on a lower rate.
almost every single service you purchase has parts and labor and alot of the time the labor is more.
a $200 fuel pump can be a easy $300 in labor, nice bonus now for the government.
the system was working just fine before until the feds wanted more money.



Nice example. The NDP instituted 7% PST on vehicle repair labour well before the HST ever came along. Tell me, does it cost more in tax to pay 12% HST on your car repair than 7% PST and 5% GST?

Question 2: Would you rather pay 10% HST than 7% PST plus 5% GST on your car repair?
You are not stupid, I just think you have bad luck when thinking.

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But that is not unusual."
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Re: H.S.T.

Postby Jonrox » Nov 20th, 2012, 2:28 pm

Rwede... I know the answer. 10% is less than 12%, but that math was evidently too hard for the majority to figure out. The HST-lovers had a point to prove and no amount of grade 1 math was going to stop them. They think they "won" by teaching the government a lesson, but in reality have only ended up with a system that is going to cost them 2% more on most of the purchases they make.
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Re: H.S.T.

Postby WhatThe » Nov 20th, 2012, 3:30 pm

Jonrox wrote:... "won" by teaching the government a lesson....

Every time I read or hear this I laugh at the naivety. Yes, we sure showed them haha
The lesson is...??? Use Vaseline before shoving something up our arses.
Our problem is that people are obedient all over the world in the face of poverty and starvation, and war, and cruelty. People are obedient while the jails are full of petty thieves, while the grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem.
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Re: H.S.T.

Postby keith1612 » Nov 20th, 2012, 5:30 pm

Rwede wrote:
keith1612 wrote:
sure it was a easy efficient tax, you no longer had to sit and remove labor costs and tax them on a lower rate.
almost every single service you purchase has parts and labor and alot of the time the labor is more.
a $200 fuel pump can be a easy $300 in labor, nice bonus now for the government.
the system was working just fine before until the feds wanted more money.



Nice example. The NDP instituted 7% PST on vehicle repair labour well before the HST ever came along. Tell me, does it cost more in tax to pay 12% HST on your car repair than 7% PST and 5% GST?

Question 2: Would you rather pay 10% HST than 7% PST plus 5% GST on your car repair?


well i dont know where you were paying that much tax, labor was not gst and pst.
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Re: H.S.T.

Postby Rwede » Nov 21st, 2012, 8:28 am

You didn't have a clue what you were paying. It was 12% on vehicle repairs all along. And you turned down a chance to only pay 10% under the HST, opting instead to keep paying 12% under PST and GST. Typically, though, we find those most against the HST are the ones who don't have any idea how it works.



When to Charge PST
You charge PST on the sale of automotive services and parts, such as:
 new and used automotive parts and materials, such as replacement parts, tools,
paints, fluids and accessories,
 shop supplies, including if you charge your customer a flat rate instead of listing
each shop supply that you use, and
most automotive services, such as tune-ups, oil changes, repairs, maintenance,
painting, and the installation of windshields, tires (except for roadside tire
changing services), mufflers or other parts.
You charge PST on the full price of your services, including charges for parts, labour
and travel time. For more information, please see Bulletin SST 018, Taxable Services.



http://www.sbr.gov.bc.ca/documents_libr ... st_122.pdf
You are not stupid, I just think you have bad luck when thinking.

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But that is not unusual."
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Re: H.S.T.

Postby twobits » Nov 21st, 2012, 8:55 am

keith1612 wrote:
Rwede wrote:
Nice example. The NDP instituted 7% PST on vehicle repair labour well before the HST ever came along. Tell me, does it cost more in tax to pay 12% HST on your car repair than 7% PST and 5% GST?

Question 2: Would you rather pay 10% HST than 7% PST plus 5% GST on your car repair?


well i dont know where you were paying that much tax, labor was not gst and pst.


Ya see Keith, here is a perfect example of testing people before they can get a vote. If your understanding of the HST and how it impacted vehicle repairs, something that working in the trucking industry should be near and dear to you and you should be right up on, is so flawed and absolutely incorrect, you really didn't have a clue what you were voting for. That is scary and again, why tax policy should never be subject to a popular vote. As you have prooven, many people cannot understand it. Weedy is absolutely correct, you have been paying the PST on labour at the shop since the NDP enacted it in the 90's. Were you screaming at the NDP then when they hosed ya for an extra 7%?
In your defense, as a trucker you might have experienced one of the loopholes of that legislation. That being the tax on labour applied to work done in the shop. For some curious reason if the work was done off premises, ie mobile mechanic, the tax need not be applied to labour though many did anyway because even they didn't understand the tax rules. I believe that loophole has been closed since but regardless, I am pretty sure that you had plenty of in shop work done prior to the HST that you should have been well aware that taxes have long been applied to the labour component.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

If we could just tax "stupid", there would be no government deficit
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Re: H.S.T.

Postby keith1612 » Nov 21st, 2012, 8:57 am

Rwede wrote:You didn't have a clue what you were paying. It was 12% on vehicle repairs all along. And you turned down a chance to only pay 10% under the HST, opting instead to keep paying 12% under PST and GST. Typically, though, we find those most against the HST are the ones who don't have any idea how it works.



When to Charge PST
You charge PST on the sale of automotive services and parts, such as:
 new and used automotive parts and materials, such as replacement parts, tools,
paints, fluids and accessories,
 shop supplies, including if you charge your customer a flat rate instead of listing
each shop supply that you use, and
most automotive services, such as tune-ups, oil changes, repairs, maintenance,
painting, and the installation of windshields, tires (except for roadside tire
changing services), mufflers or other parts.
You charge PST on the full price of your services, including charges for parts, labour
and travel time. For more information, please see Bulletin SST 018, Taxable Services.



http://www.sbr.gov.bc.ca/documents_libr ... st_122.pdf


thats interesting, i know i didnt charge for labour pst in my job but i ran a dumptruck.
different labor terms to the govt i suppose.
i also do my own mechanic work.
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Re: H.S.T.

Postby Rwede » Nov 21st, 2012, 9:00 am

Like I said, those who know nothing about tax decided to vote against the HST. That's the problem with letting uninformed people decide the direction of the province, and why we end up in financial trouble. Leave taxes to the experts!
You are not stupid, I just think you have bad luck when thinking.

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But that is not unusual."
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Re: H.S.T.

Postby keith1612 » Nov 21st, 2012, 9:08 am

twobits wrote:
Ya see Keith, here is a perfect example of testing people before they can get a vote. If your understanding of the HST and how it impacted vehicle repairs, something that working in the trucking industry should be near and dear to you and you should be right up on, is so flawed and absolutely incorrect, you really didn't have a clue what you were voting for. That is scary and again, why tax policy should never be subject to a popular vote. As you have prooven, many people cannot understand it. Weedy is absolutely correct, you have been paying the PST on labour at the shop since the NDP enacted it in the 90's. Were you screaming at the NDP then when they hosed ya for an extra 7%?
In your defense, as a trucker you might have experienced one of the loopholes of that legislation. That being the tax on labour applied to work done in the shop. For some curious reason if the work was done off premises, ie mobile mechanic, the tax need not be applied to labour though many did anyway because even they didn't understand the tax rules. I believe that loophole has been closed since but regardless, I am pretty sure that you had plenty of in shop work done prior to the HST that you should have been well aware that taxes have long been applied to the labour component.


testing people prior to voting is the stupidest idea yet.
just because i may not have used one service doesnt mean im not correct on other taxed.
there are many forms of services that would be now included.
look at all the different labour work in home reno's, drywallers, painters etc all charging more.
add on the extra tax i had to charge customers daily at $110 per hr, 90% of my billing was pure labor as i let customers deal with the materials.
not one voter on any issue ever knows all the fine print or loopholes etc involved, you read what you need and make a choice based on what you want.
you may want to live in a communist country where our rights to voting are removed or limited but i sure do not.
the Liberals and the anti HST had the time to make their points known and the people voted as the felt was correct.
if there was another vote today i would bet it would get the same results.
sure there are some good points to the HST but i think in the end it costs much more than it gains.
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Re: H.S.T.

Postby keith1612 » Nov 21st, 2012, 9:11 am

Rwede wrote:Like I said, those who know nothing about tax decided to vote against the HST. That's the problem with letting uninformed people decide the direction of the province, and why we end up in financial trouble. Leave taxes to the experts!


the people know very little about policing i suppose we should just leave everything up to the cops.
going on that theory the people should question very little and let others make all their choices.
the right choice was made, now it would be nice if the feds returned the money stolen.
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