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Re: Getting rid of ICBC!

Postby ticat900 » Apr 1st, 2012, 2:54 pm

I said if you had a ICBC fleet policy then I would belive you may save around 3000$ verses 10 single policys.I NEVER EVER said I was talking about and or refering to a PI fleet policy[/quote]
I'm having a bit of a tough time finding where you specify the carrier because your totally defamatory post seems to have been removed. As I recall, and everyone read, you never specified any form of carrier did you?
Without you having the ability to get a comparative quote on my specific vehicles how is it that you are so sure that when compared to a private carrier that ICBC is "the same amount" as you refer to it? Are you using the same logic or source as those saying basic insurance though a private carrier will cost drivers more than ICBC without even having the ability to get a comparative quote?[/quote]
[quote][/quote]

you can keep tapping as long as u feel u want to.My position was and is is that u never ever saved Three thousnads dollars by buying private collision and comprehensive insurance on 10 vehicle,s
Like i told u PI and ICBC are about identical for a no demerit,no claim senior driver
I have priced out PI and ICBC every year for the last few years and as i said many times ICBC fleet insurance is definately the cheaper of the 2.My example yesterday of a 2002 envoy being 432$PI and 435 $ICBC.Is just one of my many PI quotes.Your claiming the 3K saving is what you beleive and i just dont happen to beleive you and continue not to beleive u based on my experiences of pricing out insurance many times
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Re: Getting rid of ICBC!

Postby Mayotruck » Nov 21st, 2012, 1:00 pm

I am shocked how people defend a monopoly period, its crazy.

They believe its the best way to have a universal god tell you how it is rather than have a competiton and choices. lol this really is insane talk...

ICBC Is rated THE WORST insurance company in canada voted by the consumers yet you all defend them and want them to remain in power.(google it if you want to bicker about this)

Original poster I feel for you,and having to deal with the ICBC fanbois in this thread, and I agree any monopoly is NOT a good thing and never will be a good thing peroid. Choice is what we need..

And for those who say ICBC has great rates read this study before you open your yap:
http://taxpayer.com/blog/06-10-2011/bc- ... st-country
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Re: Getting rid of ICBC!

Postby Captain Awesome » Nov 21st, 2012, 2:40 pm

Mayotruck wrote:I am shocked how people defend a monopoly period, its crazy.


It might be because some of us had experience with the open market insurance model and it wasn't that great either.
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Re: Getting rid of ICBC!

Postby james-d » Nov 21st, 2012, 7:42 pm

I'm with you Mayo tuck. ICBC has been ripping us off for years. Let them stay, And bring private insurance .Take AWAY the mandatory ICBC has to supply your insurance . When Grin and Barrett brought it in it was to save us poor soles money!! HAHA since when did ANY govt run buisness not rip us all new ones by raising taxes to pay for the govt stupidity, let icbc stay, allow in private insurance ,and when icbc can't compete because of the high union wages they pay they will turn out the lights themselves problem solved.
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Re: Getting rid of ICBC!

Postby John500 » Nov 22nd, 2012, 11:34 am

If you figure out the money the various governments took out of ICBC and put into General Revenue, plus the money we, the consumer, have to pay for insurance and then to find out that ICBC was over burdened with managers and staff we paid for, and then to get hit with a 12% raise in coverage, and then to find out that couple of years ago they had a scam as to write of vehicles purchased by employees, one can only come to one conclusion that ICBC needs competition for the basics as well. Unfortunately, no government in BC is willing to take this by the horns or even daare talking about this.
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Re: Getting rid of ICBC!

Postby hobbyguy » Nov 22nd, 2012, 1:06 pm

ICBC rates are competitive, the service is good, and the profits flow back to the citizens. Seems OK to me.

As the odd foul up and overexpenditure - you'll find lots of those in private industry.

It boils down to you can pay ICBC x amount, and get some benefit back in slightly lower taxes as well as having some assurance that your contract with them will be honored. Or, you pay the same x amount to a private operator, and the profits will go for gold plated terlet seats on the CEO's yacht, and you pay a little more in income tax to boot - and hope to heck you never have a claim.
We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both. - Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: Getting rid of ICBC!

Postby my5cents » Nov 22nd, 2012, 5:50 pm

Well, let’s look at the portion of our car insurance that is currently totally open to competition, optional coverage.

I've read several posts stating that people have saved hundreds of dollars off the amount that ICBC charged for optional coverage. I've had my agent check the difference I would pay on two occasions and once I checked on line with Canadian Direct. Virtually no difference in cost for me.

So, private is in competition with ICBC on optional, and from what I've found the price is basically the same. Now if I was a young person, I'll bet private would either not sell me the coverage or would at a high rate.

So why do we think that opening up the compulsory coverage to competition would result in a savings ?

Also, private is basically matching ICBC's rates. I know private won't sell to certain demographics and won't sell for certain types of vehicles. So one would think if they are "creaming" the optional business, they would be offering if for much less than ICBC, because all they are accepting are the good risks.

Oh and the money that the government has taken from ICBC (I DON'T AGREE WITH THEM DOING SO), was all from the optional coverage, so wouldn't you think if hundreds of millions are being siphoned off from the optional coverage pot of money that private would have no problem at all beating ICBC's rates ? But they are not. ????????
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Re: Getting rid of ICBC!

Postby keith1612 » Nov 22nd, 2012, 6:02 pm

james-d wrote:I'm with you Mayo tuck. ICBC has been ripping us off for years. Let them stay, And bring private insurance .Take AWAY the mandatory ICBC has to supply your insurance . When Grin and Barrett brought it in it was to save us poor soles money!! HAHA since when did ANY govt run buisness not rip us all new ones by raising taxes to pay for the govt stupidity, let icbc stay, allow in private insurance ,and when icbc can't compete because of the high union wages they pay they will turn out the lights themselves problem solved.



well i can assure you you better not want to get rid of icbc if you have kids under 20
most new drivers in say Alberta on private insurance pay 5 times the cost of icbc per year.
thats a cheap estimate.
yes as a over 50 driver with perfect record private is good.
try it with 3 speeding tickets.
alot of BC drivers with tickets would be walking under private insurance rules.
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Re: Getting rid of ICBC!

Postby Roadster » Nov 26th, 2012, 10:03 am

Dunno about now but when I left Ontario my little rabbit was $226.00 a year to insure and when I left there and came here within days my insurance went up to ove $900.00 per year instantly. If I wanted to take the three month plan it was $1200.00 per year. Wow, I nearly passed out. Back then they didnt offer the monthly payment plan we have now. It was a back breaker.
Whats more Ontario charges according to population and I was not far from Toronto and yet still it was a good price. My motor bike was about $400.00 per year.
You had to shop around and if you took the time it was well worth it. I never heard of anyone having a hard time claiming and in fact my sister inlaw in Ontario was in her friends car a few years ago, they hit a lamp post and she got a crunched wrist out of it.
Some pain and temporary deformity, they covered her needs, even bought her a light weight vaccume because the complaint was using her hand for general stuff. Then they bought her a tread mill,,, why? I dunno, seemed they thought she should be able to exersize while at home healing. Now that shocked me. We thought she was BSing us about that one.
She was compensated for time loss since her work was about typing and then settled and she was really quite happy with the outcome. After therapy and massage she is back to normal and its like it never even happened anymore. She said it was prit near stressless.
I have never had to make a claim so I cant comment on personal experience but thats pretty good if she had it so easy. Mind you I had cheap insurance and there was no need for this 40% off thing for good driving. Instead they charge the careless driver more and they cover their own butts with their own cash. Yes it takes some bucks once you screw up several times or are caught doing the wrongs.
I believe they also had the monthly plans which would come in handy for the bad driver cos it did add up on the idiots easily and that is how it should be!
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Re: Getting rid of ICBC!

Postby 797hauler » Nov 26th, 2012, 10:55 am

well i can assure you you better not want to get rid of icbc if you have kids under 20
most new drivers in say Alberta on private insurance pay 5 times the cost of icbc per year.
thats a cheap estimate.
yes as a over 50 driver with perfect record private is good.
try it with 3 speeding tickets.
alot of BC drivers with tickets would be walking under private insurance rules.[/quote]



I found Alberta to be way more, About $1500.00 anually...Had one very serious issue with ICBC cancelling my drivers licence do to a system flaw, that case cost ICBC alot of money, (Thank you ICBC) :sunshine:

And alot of time, however it did get settled fast and system has now been changed.

So Im happy with ICBC the way it is.. nothings perfect, but they WILL take care of you more then an individual insurance company will, and reason for that is the attitude I found of these individual companies is " well theres others out there so if you dont like it go somewhere else". ICBC only screws you if YOU dont follow the rules.

Just my opinion and experience... not to be debated..
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Re: Getting rid of ICBC!

Postby my5cents » Nov 26th, 2012, 11:42 am

Roadster wrote:Dunno about now but when I left Ontario my little rabbit was $226.00 a year to insure and when I left there and came here within days my insurance went up to ove $900.00 per year instantly. If I wanted to take the three month plan it was $1200.00 per year. Wow, I nearly passed out. Back then they didnt offer the monthly payment plan we have now. It was a back breaker.

From memory, I think ICBC has had a payment plan for about the last 30 years.

As far as you paying $226 a year in Ont vs $900 a year in BC, I'd love to see the paper work.

As for you paying a surcharge of 33% for purchasing 3 months at a time. ??? For starters, I don't think ICBC sold three month policies 30 plus years ago, the only short term policy they sold was 6 months.

At this moment, according to their own web site you can buy a three to seven month policy. You pay a 2.5% surcharge plus a $10 license surcharge. The 2.5 % surcharge is based on the insurance premium and the maximum surcharge is $100.

Roadster wrote:Whats more Ontario charges according to population and I was not far from Toronto and yet still it was a good price. My motor bike was about $400.00 per year.

ICBC does the exact same thing, they have broken the province into rate territories.

Roadster wrote:You had to shop around and if you took the time it was well worth it. I never heard of anyone having a hard time claiming and in fact my sister inlaw in Ontario was in her friends car a few years ago, they hit a lamp post and she got a crunched wrist out of it.
Some pain and temporary deformity, they covered her needs, even bought her a light weight vaccume because the complaint was using her hand for general stuff. Then they bought her a tread mill,,, why? I dunno, seemed they thought she should be able to exersize while at home healing. Now that shocked me. We thought she was BSing us about that one.
She was compensated for time loss since her work was about typing and then settled and she was really quite happy with the outcome. After therapy and massage she is back to normal and its like it never even happened anymore. She said it was prit near stressless.
I have never had to make a claim so I cant comment on personal experience but thats pretty good if she had it so easy. Mind you I had cheap insurance and there was no need for this 40% off thing for good driving. Instead they charge the careless driver more and they cover their own butts with their own cash. Yes it takes some bucks once you screw up several times or are caught doing the wrongs.
I believe they also had the monthly plans which would come in handy for the bad driver cos it did add up on the idiots easily and that is how it should be!

I don't know what years you are talking about, but I think you'll find that since ICBC has been in place, when comparing the same coverage to the same driver in the same type of area, BC is FAR cheaper than Ontario.

As far as Ontario being so cheap that insured's don't need a 40% discount ?

ICBC has a Claims Rated Scale. For someone with no experience with insurance in any jurisdiction and no driving history, no matter what their age, sex, or marrital status they start at "Base Rate". As they gain experience and if they don't have liable claims, they accrue a discount. If they have liable claims they accrue surcharges. Seems fair to me.
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Re: Getting rid of ICBC!

Postby John500 » Nov 26th, 2012, 3:19 pm

I have to have basics from ICBC (shame for a free enterprise province) I purchase the optional from Canada Direct. And I save at least 15% if not more. Then my motorcycle. Again, have to getthe basics from ICBC. (no choice inthe matter) Get the optional from CD as well. Save even more. Actually a fair amount. Plus had $75.00 returned from CD because I have now 2 vehicles with CDI for the optional. And on that point, the way ICBC rates motorcycles is crazy. Strictly by engine size.
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Re: Getting rid of ICBC!

Postby keith1612 » Nov 26th, 2012, 7:29 pm

John500 wrote:I have to have basics from ICBC (shame for a free enterprise province) I purchase the optional from Canada Direct. And I save at least 15% if not more. Then my motorcycle. Again, have to getthe basics from ICBC. (no choice inthe matter) Get the optional from CD as well. Save even more. Actually a fair amount. Plus had $75.00 returned from CD because I have now 2 vehicles with CDI for the optional. And on that point, the way ICBC rates motorcycles is crazy. Strictly by engine size.


i always get basic also.
i insured a little honda 185 a couple years back (no theft) and was friggin shocked at the cost.
bikes are crazy to insure.
ICBC even though its a monopoly i have to say is the best deal ive seen anywhere for a family with kids or if you are a poor driver.
private insurance is insane on kids and and anyone with tickets.
im almost 50 with 1 speeding ticket in 17 years so i will get a good rate in Alberta.
i think if they allowed private in BC (i would let them) ICBC would still be the more used.
companies in Alberta have to have employee's varified with their policy holder as a term of conditions.
in BC i saw guys get jobs driving gravel trucks with no license and the company didnt check.
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Re: Getting rid of ICBC!

Postby my5cents » Nov 27th, 2012, 1:12 pm

keith1612 wrote:i always get basic also.
i insured a little honda 185 a couple years back (no theft) and was friggin shocked at the cost.
bikes are crazy to insure.
ICBC even though its a monopoly i have to say is the best deal ive seen anywhere for a family with kids or if you are a poor driver.
private insurance is insane on kids and and anyone with tickets.
im almost 50 with 1 speeding ticket in 17 years so i will get a good rate in Alberta.
i think if they allowed private in BC (i would let them) ICBC would still be the more used.

So, you actually think BC could allow private insurance to sell the basic coverage (the first $200,000 public liability) and then still keep ICBC ?

Not the way it would work, IMO. If the basic auto insurance would be open to competition, private would take over and bye bye ICBC. As it sits right now with ICBC having the monopoly on the basic first $200,000 public liability, likely ICBC could charge less for the experienced, low claim drivers if they priced their liability coverage the same as private would, which is priced by gender, marital status, age (including surcharge for young and older drivers), in addition to claims and experience. ICBC doesn't add anything to your insurance for tickets, they have a separate yearly penalty points system that handles that.

The way I understand it, at the rates that even ICBC is charging right now for the basic coverage, private wouldn't want in. Basic coverage isn't where the money is made, it is in the optional. I think their game plan would be to try to get ICBC completely out of the mix and then be free to operate in a fully private system.

I hear so many tell stories about great savings with private. I've gotten quotes three different years running. No claims for 12 years, no tickets for 17 + years, no other charges and with private I would save maybe $30 a year. I know the rules with ICBC, I know they won't just cancel my coverage, like years ago private did to me (prior to ICBC).

So I guess if your private company charges you extra for a ticket you got, you are paying a surcharge twice for that ticket, because ICBC charges you yearly as well.

keith1612 wrote:companies in Alberta have to have employee's varified with their policy holder as a term of conditions.
in BC i saw guys get jobs driving gravel trucks with no license and the company didnt check.


What you didn't see was when the unlicensed driver had an accident in that company truck. No coverage.

It is up to each employer to check each employee who drives company vehicles, that includes in BC.

What makes you think ICBC is OK with unlicensed fleet drivers ??

I believe the difference with fleets in BC is that in relation to ICBC coverage, each driver pays penalty premium points individually to retain their driver's license and each liable claim penalizes the actual policy. So if I started with Company A and previously I had three tickets and two liable claims in my own car, the penalty points are assessed directly with me and the two liable claims increase the insurance on my personal car. It's not until I bend the company vehicle that my driving affects their insurance.
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Re: Getting rid of ICBC!

Postby Roadster » Nov 27th, 2012, 1:48 pm

my5cents wrote:I don't know what years you are talking about, but I think you'll find that since ICBC has been in place, when comparing the same coverage to the same driver in the same type of area, BC is FAR cheaper than Ontario.

As far as Ontario being so cheap that insured's don't need a 40% discount ?

ICBC has a Claims Rated Scale. For someone with no experience with insurance in any jurisdiction and no driving history, no matter what their age, sex, or marrital status they start at "Base Rate". As they gain experience and if they don't have liable claims, they accrue a discount. If they have liable claims they accrue surcharges. Seems fair to me.

I am talking about, 1990 about the time I got here to BC. I asked about a monthly thing, no it was not available, or so the office I went to in Osoyoos told me, maybe some did and some didnt, dont know about that. It was nine hundred plus a year and about three hun for three months, more then I was paying for a year in Ontario, would love to show you the paper work but you'd have to go find my old recycle stuff, shredded everything years ago. Not something I thought I uld need to save so I could show you. That same car now would be abouts $1200.00 I would think here now, or so my little car about the same size as my rabbit is anyway.
So if you have a few cars here in BC thats a lot of money to have two or three of them insured.
We should have the driver insured and I believe that was being discussed through ICBC at one time, might be wrong tho.
Also I am not sure why you think I am talking 30 plus years ago, or did I say that in error and lead you that way?
Also I cant remember if I had any special rates in other provinces, I have always been accident free and free of any speeding tickets or other road wrongs so could be, I dont remember having it anyway, just shopping for the best price at those private insurance places, And in the same breath I think in BC, after a few clean years driving a person should be insured on their good or bad behaviours as in bad drivers pay a premium for being speeders and drunk driving, as well as causing accidents due to carelessness and good drivers pay a bottom cost since they are not such a risk.
If that was to happen you bet it would smarten up some people once they see their wallets getting thinner. It would also encourage good driving and it should be that way.
Since I have no driving issues I really have no idea how ICBC works, all I know is my insurance is way too high for my risk level as far as I am concerned.
So challenge me all you like with dates and a need to see paperwork that just isnt available but I cant remember paying as high as I did the first day I got to BC.
Anyone remember when BC Tel was the only phone company available here? Ya, the rates have changed greatly since Glen Tel and other companies started pushing their way in. Now you can call all over Canada and the US for 20 bucks a month,,,, who'da thunk it hey...? Private insurance IMO will allow shopping for your best buck.
Even cell phone companies, there are hoards of them and now Everyone can afford one, or two, or three in a household,,, wow! Back when I managed em in their early days only a business man or woman came in to see me for repairs returns or parts.
Imagine if them phone companies still held the market by themselves with no allowable competition around us, it would still cost 20 bucks to say a long Happy Birthday to someone in Ontario or Nova Scotia from here.
Last edited by Roadster on Nov 27th, 2012, 2:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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