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RCMP vs Provincial Police

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Re: RCMP vs Provincial Police

Postby grammafreddy » Dec 12th, 2011, 5:11 pm

Kenyo wrote:KL-3 doesn't care about this community anymore, he is going north to police. Transfer was handed to him today!!

Thanks KL-3 for your efforts to stop all corruption here in Kelowna!


Now, that's a shame. I thoroughly enjoyed having his posts here on CNet, I'll miss them.

Wishing him all the best in his new community.
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Re: RCMP vs Provincial Police

Postby MAPearce » Dec 12th, 2011, 6:41 pm

KL3 is already a police officer in our community. Why would you look at him (or any other RCMP member) differently just because they have a different patch on their uniform?


Oh goatboy....If An HA member helped an old lady across the street , would you view him differently for his act of humanity ???

I think not.

KL-3 doesn't care about this community anymore, he is going north to police. Transfer was handed to him today!!


Good Luck KL3.....honestly...

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Re: RCMP vs Provincial Police

Postby d_bengert » Dec 13th, 2011, 1:24 am

goatboy wrote:
d_bengert wrote:

well from what I've heard in the past I would have no problem with KL3-something as a police officer in my city...what I want ... what I really really want is to be able to teach my kids that if they are ever in trouble to find a police officer cause he can and wants to help...I don't feel that way now and whatever it takes to change it back to that I'm votin for


KL3 is already a police officer in our community. Why would you look at him (or any other RCMP member) differently just because they have a different patch on their uniform?

umm...he said he would jump over...
I never said I would look at him differently...I think he has a head on his shoulders and don't care what badge he wears...I did however say that I wanted a change...I don't care what badge as long as I can teach my kids that police are here to serve and protect
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Re: RCMP vs Provincial Police

Postby d_bengert » Dec 13th, 2011, 1:29 am

Kenyo wrote:Help me with this one.

Now, I know all about the RCMP and am very aware of Provincial Police. I know the system when it comes to Municipal Policing very well. The question I present to each of you who think Provincial would be much finer system then the current Federal RCMP, what would the difference be?

Yes the uniform color may change; the name will obviously change too. Currently the RCMP has a Commissioner who has a Division Leaders in each Province or Division. How do you think the direction of the RCMP is determined as to what their focus should be?

Ok, so Provincial you would have a Commissioner or Provincial Chief. He would still have the direct impute from his Subdivisions or Municipal supervisors (Chief). As we currently have with the RCMP from each Detachment Commander. The Provincial Police would have Detachments or Departments, with Commanders or Chiefs too.

Think of it all together, would it really change?

Now if it were Municipal, the Chief would be answerable to the Police Commission which typically would be made up from local members of the Community, such as business owners/operators, Teachers and representatives from City Counsel. The Chief would have to answer to these people. If he were not conforming to the needs of the community, he would not receive a second contract he would be gone.

Do you understand where this would go... the Community would have some control of what they think the Police should be focusing upon and provide their direction as well?


I'm sorry maybe I read this last part wrong...are you saying this would be a bad thing?
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Re: RCMP vs Provincial Police

Postby d_bengert » Dec 13th, 2011, 1:35 am

grammafreddy wrote:
Kenyo wrote:KL-3 doesn't care about this community anymore, he is going north to police. Transfer was handed to him today!!

Thanks KL-3 for your efforts to stop all corruption here in Kelowna!


Now, that's a shame. I thoroughly enjoyed having his posts here on CNet, I'll miss them.

Wishing him all the best in his new community.


I am in complete agreement with grammafreddy...good luck KL3...and I'm sure you leave behind some friends and hope you do care at least a little about this community...it was a pleasure conversing with you
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Re: RCMP vs Provincial Police

Postby Ken7 » Dec 13th, 2011, 8:07 am

d_bengert wrote:
Kenyo wrote:Help me with this one.

Now, I know all about the RCMP and am very aware of Provincial Police. I know the system when it comes to Municipal Policing very well. The question I present to each of you who think Provincial would be much finer system then the current Federal RCMP, what would the difference be?

Yes the uniform color may change; the name will obviously change too. Currently the RCMP has a Commissioner who has a Division Leaders in each Province or Division. How do you think the direction of the RCMP is determined as to what their focus should be?

Ok, so Provincial you would have a Commissioner or Provincial Chief. He would still have the direct impute from his Subdivisions or Municipal supervisors (Chief). As we currently have with the RCMP from each Detachment Commander. The Provincial Police would have Detachments or Departments, with Commanders or Chiefs too.

Think of it all together, would it really change?

Now if it were Municipal, the Chief would be answerable to the Police Commission which typically would be made up from local members of the Community, such as business owners/operators, Teachers and representatives from City Counsel. The Chief would have to answer to these people. If he were not conforming to the needs of the community, he would not receive a second contract he would be gone.

Do you understand where this would go... the Community would have some control of what they think the Police should be focusing upon and provide their direction as well?


I'm sorry maybe I read this last part wrong...are you saying this would be a bad thing?

_____________________________________________________________


The point I make is the current system is controlled out of Ottawa. If there were a Provincial Police Service, it would be controlled, most likely out of Victoria, as that seems to be how the Government works in the Province.

If it was a Municipal Department, it is controlled out of the city where the Department is. The control is the City and of course the Board which over sees it.

Hope this helps....just trying to clear up things.

As far as KL-3 goes, my apologies...the devil made me do it. He is not going yet as far as I know. It just fell into Goatboys post that he is part of our Community, and said as a joke! The devil made me do it!

He does seem to be part of it and that’s good!
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Re: RCMP vs Provincial Police

Postby goatboy » Dec 13th, 2011, 8:58 am

d_bengert wrote:
I never said I would look at him differently...I think he has a head on his shoulders and don't care what badge he wears...I did however say that I wanted a change...I don't care what badge as long as I can teach my kids that police are here to serve and protect


I know, my point was, if you think he's a good member and you don't care what badge he carries, why would it matter to your kids whether he was RCMP or Provincial police. He is still the same person and most of the rest of the Provincial Police force wold also be ex-RCMP but with a different badge.
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Re: RCMP vs Provincial Police

Postby grammafreddy » Dec 13th, 2011, 9:07 am

Kenyo wrote:
As far as KL-3 goes, my apologies...the devil made me do it. He is not going yet as far as I know. It just fell into Goatboys post that he is part of our Community, and said as a joke! The devil made me do it!

He does seem to be part of it and that’s good!


*tsk*tsk*

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Re: RCMP vs Provincial Police

Postby d_bengert » Dec 13th, 2011, 1:29 pm

goatboy wrote:
d_bengert wrote:
I never said I would look at him differently...I think he has a head on his shoulders and don't care what badge he wears...I did however say that I wanted a change...I don't care what badge as long as I can teach my kids that police are here to serve and protect


I know, my point was, if you think he's a good member and you don't care what badge he carries, why would it matter to your kids whether he was RCMP or Provincial police. He is still the same person and most of the rest of the Provincial Police force wold also be ex-RCMP but with a different badge.


I don't think I'm getting my point across...sorry for the confusion...I don't care if he is RCMP or Provincial Police but one police officer does not make a police force...I think if they were all like him (and guys Like Kevin Mcdougal...Retired) we wouldn't need a change...
unfortunately there are some who think because they have a badge and a gun it makes them better people than the rest of us...the selection process is not what it used to be...had a friend who became a member and had her kit stolen at depot on graduation day...hmmm...makes ya wonder who is allowed in the barracks...and by no means am I saying all are like this but the attitude of the few (Jeff Mantler for example) reflect horribly on the unit as a whole...and have left the general public with a bad taste in their mouths
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Re: RCMP vs Provincial Police

Postby grammafreddy » Dec 13th, 2011, 2:18 pm

d_bengert wrote:...and have left the general public with a bad taste in their mouths


I understand (I think) where you're coming from and I agree with you.

There is this public concept that the people whose job it is to uphold and enforce the laws should be above reproach and should be honest, law-abiding, upstanding citizens and role models themselves in all areas of their lives. They can't be sometimes cops and sometimes crooks and drug dealers. They can't be abusers of wives and kids and the public.

Somewhere along the line, some cops from the very top down to the cop on the street have stepped over the line and, with new technology and the Internet, this is now coming to the public's attention. Inside their own detachments and hierarchy, there is bullying and corruption and cover-ups. They hide their misdeeds under their own examination process which is not accountable to any other body.

Due to the large number of incidents and the lack of accountability and seeming lack of removal of these bad cops, there is now a mistrust of them by the public they are supposed to serve and protect. The public does not know anymore who the bad guys are and who the good guys are. They used to. The guy in the police uniform was always the good guy.

It is a sad state of affairs, but one which was brought on by the corruption inside their own "house" and which only they will be able to dispel through an totally honest top guy who has a clear mandate and the will to do a thorough sweeping of the dirt on the floor.

... and then there's the politicians who will fight the people to keep the corruption inside the police force(s) to cover their own corrupt tushes.
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Re: RCMP vs Provincial Police

Postby goatboy » Dec 13th, 2011, 3:19 pm

d_bengert wrote:I don't think I'm getting my point across...sorry for the confusion...I don't care if he is RCMP or Provincial Police but one police officer does not make a police force...I think if they were all like him (and guys Like Kevin Mcdougal...Retired) we wouldn't need a change...
unfortunately there are some who think because they have a badge and a gun it makes them better people than the rest of us...the selection process is not what it used to be...had a friend who became a member and had her kit stolen at depot on graduation day...hmmm...makes ya wonder who is allowed in the barracks...and by no means am I saying all are like this but the attitude of the few (Jeff Mantler for example) reflect horribly on the unit as a whole...and have left the general public with a bad taste in their mouths



OK, I get it now, I think I had mis-read your initial post, my fault.

I know, how you feel. It's unfortunate that for every "bad apple" the reality is there are 50 (or more) good ones and the chances that your kids would ever experience a bad interaction with a member is extremely low. What I do truly believe though, is everyone should base their opinion on the local RCMP based on the interactions they have had with them, rather than anecdotal or second hand opinions, keeping in mind, the context of those interactions. Sometimes their job requires that they not be polite and nice to you. Other times, there is no reason for them not to be polite and respectful.

I would like to think, that based on personal experience, the majority of those experiences would not be negative ones.
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Re: RCMP vs Provincial Police

Postby goatboy » Dec 13th, 2011, 3:40 pm

grammafreddy wrote:
Somewhere along the line, some cops from the very top down to the cop on the street have stepped over the line and, with new technology and the Internet, this is now coming to the public's attention.


I'll start off by saying that I have no idea if this is true or not and I'm not trying to justify the bad incidents that have happened, but I wonder if, in reality, the RCMP is the same as it was 30 years ago, when they were respected, but what has changed now is that we have cell phone camera's, 24 hours news stations and the internet?

I wonder if these things have been happening in all police forces for the last half century, but now thanks to modern technology, it has become far easier for it to become public? I'm guessing, but I would probably think it is somewhat true. The Mantler situation is a good example. If we didn't have cell phones and an Internet news website reporter, would we have known that this had happened? Probably not. We would have just carried on, ignorant to what has happened and be none the wiser and thus, our perception or opinion not changing, yet the incident still took place.

It's just interesting to see how perceptions/opinions can change, based not on the fact that anything has really changed, but rather, the amount of information we base those perceptions/opinions on has.
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Re: RCMP vs Provincial Police

Postby Sn0man » Dec 13th, 2011, 9:16 pm

goatboy wrote: What I do truly believe though, is everyone should base their opinion on the local RCMP based on the interactions they have had with them, rather than anecdotal or second hand opinions, keeping in mind, the context of those interactions.


I recall as a 15 year old hanging out in kerry park with some buddies (back when people used to hang out at kerry park) and having a group of RCMP rookies (in uniform) trying to start a brawl with us. That was not cool. I recall at around the same age having just come off a greyhound bus and having my bags illegaly searched "just because I had come off the bus". That was not cool. At 16 I recall being thrown into the back of a patty wagon and pepper sprayed simply for being in the 'wrong place at the wrong time' (I think that was at marti gras). I recall at 19 having a friends face slammed into the hood of an RCMP cruiser while her partner looked on. That was not cool. I recall at 29 having a friend arrested and searched without cause or justification, and no charges were pressed (or even alluded to), simply told he was "under arrest" for the purposes of conducting an illegal search. Not cool.

For those members, i'm glad there will now be an agency to hold them accountable.

On the other hand, I have known or met many very cool RCMP members. two I recall particularly fondly from my youth. A few others from my 20's I recall as being very kind, understanding and trustworthy.

Provincial or federal I think there are always going to be good and bad. I think though that 2 in 50 is a little on the low side - probably like 2 in 10 or 15.
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Re: RCMP vs Provincial Police

Postby kibbs » Jan 17th, 2013, 6:45 pm

I realize this is an old post and the contract has been signed with the RCMP .There is opt out clauses and it is not been written in stone.I have suggested that it would be good to start a provincial force and let the RCMP look after federal matters and rebuild their image.It would also give us a chance to create a force with more modern policing practices and to Clean house and weed out bad cops.
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Re: RCMP vs Provincial Police

Postby LoneWolf_53 » Jan 17th, 2013, 7:01 pm

kibbs wrote:I realize this is an old post and the contract has been signed with the RCMP .There is opt out clauses and it is not been written in stone.I have suggested that it would be good to start a provincial force and let the RCMP look after federal matters and rebuild their image.It would also give us a chance to create a force with more modern policing practices and to Clean house and weed out bad cops.


If the RCMP lost the contract for the province, thus giving them no alternative but to get rid of excess members, where do you suppose those trained members would go looking for work?

Have you given that any consideration?
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