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17 drunk driving cases tossed because of police.

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Re: 17 drunk driving cases tossed because of lazy police.

Postby abbyrugby » Feb 2nd, 2013, 8:32 am

jerome2877 wrote:The IRP system has proven its worth both to the judicial system as well as to the general public.


.........but not the Constitution.
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Re: 17 drunk driving cases tossed because of lazy police.

Postby KL3-Something » Feb 2nd, 2013, 8:36 am

Oh? In what way exactly?
All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

Just to be clear: The opinions expressed above are mine and do not represent those of any other person, class of persons or organization.
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Re: 17 drunk driving cases tossed because of lazy police.

Postby kibbs » Feb 2nd, 2013, 9:00 am

Sounds like a minor technicality a mistake not to be repeated. I'm pretty sure cops know when your drunk .they are just using the tools at hand to get the job done .Protecting the public from drunk idiots.I would treat you like a grow op .take and sell your car .and never allow you to drive again.They should take blood roadside.
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Re: 17 drunk driving cases tossed because of lazy police.

Postby abbyrugby » Feb 2nd, 2013, 9:01 am

KL3-Something wrote:Oh? In what way exactly?


The original one, illegal search and seizure. IRP 2.0..............you'll have to wait until September 2013. In the meantime, keep handing out IRPs like candy.
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Re: 17 drunk driving cases tossed because of lazy police.

Postby KL3-Something » Feb 2nd, 2013, 9:22 am

KL3-Something wrote:Oh? In what way exactly?


abbyrugby wrote:The original one, illegal search and seizure. IRP 2.0..............you'll have to wait until September 2013. In the meantime, keep handing out IRPs like candy.


I guess I will.....and I shall.
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Re: 17 drunk driving cases tossed because of lazy police.

Postby theyeti » Feb 2nd, 2013, 9:36 am

this is a tuff one for me . i hate drunk drivers i think they r scum . unfortunately my opinion of the way this law is enforced is kinda similar to my stance on drunk drivers .
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Re: 17 drunk driving cases tossed because of lazy police.

Postby simnut » Feb 2nd, 2013, 9:49 am

Sounds like a minor technicality a mistake not to be repeated.

Tell that to someone that MAY not have been at the BAC limit to garner a 3 month suspension, but WAS given an IRP because of a faulty advice. Shirley Bond has said they will give all fee's and costs back to these drivers and clear their record. Nice token effort....as these drivers have already served a 3 month suspension...what is that worth...or how are they going to get that back? Think of all the other non monetary costs incurred being suspended for 3 months...job...kids getting to soccer practise etc. How are they going to be paid back? How can you pay back lost time???????

I'm pretty sure cops know when your drunk .they are just using the tools at hand to get the job done .


I agree....but!!!!! In our society, we have rules (or in the case of BC , HAD rules) to protect the general public from errors made by our accusers.....rules that could be checked in court to make sure the accuser has ALL their duck in a row. Impaired driving is .08 BAC, and because a number has been given, the accurate measurement must also be available to detect that number.....and the ability to question the device. Its a check and balance thing that IS required....or we'll become like the old west again! Rules and legislation are in place so that we ALL know where we stand in our society.

Officers in BC are only doing what they are told to do....THEY were not the ones to decide that IRPS are the way to go......I don't blame them at all! It is the government offices and legislation that are the problem.


You know, if the OSMV would "stay" the penalty phase of an IRP, the minute the OSMV finds the driver has filed a case with the Supreme Court of BC, I would be perfectly fine with these IRPS. That would be a perfect compromise....

Remember, impaired driving is a criminal act...and should be treated as such.....and along with that comes the rights of the accused.
I don't have issues with police, just their boss....the government......
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Re: 17 drunk driving cases tossed because of lazy police.

Postby zzontar » Feb 2nd, 2013, 9:59 am

diggerdick wrote:Calibration raises concerns about breathalyzers

A Vancouver defence lawyer says the problems police are experiencing with improperly calibrated breathalyzers are only the tip of the iceberg.

Yesterday, Port Moody police revealed improperly calibrated devices led to 14 invalid roadside suspensions for drunk driving in 2011. The government has promised to erase the suspensions from the drivers' records and reimburse any fines or fees.

But lawyer Paul Doroshenko says compensating the drivers is not going to be that simple.

"I don't know what you do. We are talking about people who have lost their jobs, huge embarrassment for people. People had to try and explain it to their families. It's humiliating," he says.

Apart from the issues with calibration and now compensation, Doroshenko says there is a bigger problem with the system.

His concern is the tough impaired driving laws that allow police to issue roadside suspensions that can cost drivers thousands of dollars in fines and fees — without setting foot inside a courtroom.
A review of the breathalyzer tests that led the Port Moody Police Department to issue immediate roadside prohibitions in 2011 found that about 8 per cent of the tests were invalid due to improper device calibration. A review of the breathalyzer tests that led the Port Moody Police Department to issue immediate roadside prohibitions in 2011 found that about 8 per cent of the tests were invalid due to improper device calibration. (CBC)

"No roadside breath testing is ever reliable enough to be to justify punishment. It's a frightening scheme we have in B.C.," he said.

Doroshenko says he devices are just not accurate enough to replace more accurate testing methods like blood tests.

"It was intended to be used as a screener to assist police officers in forming an opinion as to whether they should take you back to the detachment." http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c ... lyzer.html


Add that to the cash cow appeal system where they could charge you know matter what evidence you had as long as they were convinced you were the driver and it makes corrupt third world country justice look normal. Even a wrongful 3 day suspension on your record can prevent someone with a previously spotless record from getting a driving job, and if that's all you've done your whole life and you're considered too old by most to be hired for something new, it can literally put someone on the streets. At least that gives the cop who didn't know his sh/t to begin with more work to do.
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Re: 17 drunk driving cases tossed because of lazy police.

Postby jerome2877 » Feb 2nd, 2013, 10:26 am

abbyrugby wrote:.........but not the Constitution.


That wasn't my quote!
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Re: 17 drunk driving cases tossed because of lazy police.

Postby diggerdick » Feb 2nd, 2013, 10:59 am

It is somewhat repugnant to me How cheerful Some police officers are With this Obvious Misguided law.

I will guarantee you,If they found these roadside screening devices Improperly calibrated In this one location It is an epidemic across all of British Columbia .

And the RCMP and the other police forces will go into the typical , Deny deny deny mode

The reality is, these toys were never meant for prosecution civil or criminal. whether there calibrated correctly or not.

I know that, the large proportion of British Columbia population knows that.

And even the police officers know that, when they looks in the mirror in the morning

The trouble is, the company line is, deny deny deny :eyeballspin:
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Re: 17 drunk driving cases tossed because of lazy police.

Postby simnut » Feb 2nd, 2013, 12:39 pm

Actually, this is all quite simple. Let's do a little math....


ASD that DO go out of calibration

PLUS

ASD procedures that may not be followed

PLUS

Humans (aka officers) not being perfect

EQUALS

A day in court BEFORE "penalized"

Not one person on here, including officers....can admit that equipment and officers are perfect........
I don't have issues with police, just their boss....the government......
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Re: 17 drunk driving cases tossed because of lazy police.

Postby Trunk-Monkey » Feb 2nd, 2013, 1:01 pm

simnut wrote:Actually, this is all quite simple. Let's do a little math....


ASD that DO go out of calibration

PLUS

ASD procedures that may not be followed

PLUS

Humans (aka officers) not being perfect

EQUALS

A day in court BEFORE "penalized"

Not one person on here, including officers....can admit that equipment and officers are perfect........


You are right people make mistakes and equipment sometimes does fail. That said and as I have said all along there are procedures set in place now to make this not an issue. What everyone seems to forget is its not just the ASD that the officer uses....there is more to it than one piece of equipment. When submitting the IRP to the OSMV the calibration records of the ASD's used have to be submitted as well. For those of you out there that feel this goes against the constitution well you are mistaken. RIGHT NOW the IRP passed the review. So yes it does not go against the constitution etc. As far as anyone or thing being perfect....no one is saying this to be true....just as the court process is not perfect. Simnut i know your story, as you have told it to me and you have to agree the IRP's the way they are utilized now are the way to go.
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Re: 17 drunk driving cases tossed because of lazy police.

Postby simnut » Feb 2nd, 2013, 1:08 pm

Trunk-Monkey wrote:
You are right people make mistakes and equipment sometimes does fail. That said and as I have said all along there are procedures set in place now to make this not an issue.


But there are people involved with those procedures....so procedures can be "suspect". My point is this, where humans are involved...perfection is not . :D



Trunk-Monkey wrote:Simnut i know your story, as you have told it to me and you have to agree the IRP's the way they are utilized now are the way to go.



They are the way to go......on one condition...in my opinion anyways. The minute a case is file with the Supreme Court, the OSMV "suspends" the suspensions until dealt with in court.
I don't have issues with police, just their boss....the government......
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Re: 17 drunk driving cases tossed because of lazy police.

Postby abbyrugby » Feb 2nd, 2013, 1:33 pm

jerome2877 wrote:
That wasn't my quote!


Woops, I wrongly accused you Jerome (cut and paste error).....................good thing you didn't lose you license for 3 months because of it.
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Re: 17 drunk driving cases tossed because of lazy police.

Postby abbyrugby » Feb 2nd, 2013, 1:37 pm

Trunk-Monkey wrote:
You are right people make mistakes and equipment sometimes does fail. That said and as I have said all along there are procedures set in place now to make this not an issue. What everyone seems to forget is its not just the ASD that the officer uses....there is more to it than one piece of equipment. When submitting the IRP to the OSMV the calibration records of the ASD's used have to be submitted as well. For those of you out there that feel this goes against the constitution well you are mistaken. RIGHT NOW the IRP passed the review. So yes it does not go against the constitution etc. As far as anyone or thing being perfect....no one is saying this to be true....just as the court process is not perfect. Simnut i know your story, as you have told it to me and you have to agree the IRP's the way they are utilized now are the way to go.


All you have to do is find a toxicologist to say that roadside breath tests are reliable. The government could not find a drunk driving expert who would say that the manner in which tests are taken at the roadside and the equipment used will produce reliable tests. Instead, the Government produced an affidavit of a police officer. Not an expert qualified to give the necessary opinion about the reliability of this type of testing.
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