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Publicly-funded care that only costs $10 a day

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Re: Publicly-funded care that only costs $10 a day

Postby logicalview » Feb 13th, 2013, 12:27 am

SurplusElect wrote:So the rich should be the ones that breed. Ok then.

.


That's not what Veovis said. Not even close. Your flagrant use of hyperbole sinks you every time, and you just get crushed. Captain Awesome is your only ally here, and even though I disagree with him, at least he's making some sense. Pay for daycare or we go extinct as a species? My goodness, just ridiculous.
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Re: Publicly-funded care that only costs $10 a day

Postby Urbane » Feb 13th, 2013, 12:28 am

    logicalview wrote:And the only way Quebec can afford to do that is because the rest of us pour money into Quebec in equalization. Take away Quebec's ability to suck the rest of Canada dry, and all of their unaffordable and unsustainable social programs go extinct over night.
Exactly right.
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Re: Publicly-funded care that only costs $10 a day

Postby logicalview » Feb 13th, 2013, 12:31 am

SurplusElect wrote:
Less and less kids being born. I wonder why?


Because having tons of kids you can't afford is sooo last century. And just plain brain dead, unless you can land a reality show like the Duggars and get people even more brain dead than you to watch it.
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Re: Publicly-funded care that only costs $10 a day

Postby ford150 » Feb 13th, 2013, 10:32 am

Daycare costs at least 1500 dollars per month per baby. Daycares all have waiting lists they raise their rates until the list starts to drop then hold it there, you know supply and demand, there is way more demand than supply which drives the cost up, way up. So a family that has two babies pays 3000 dollars a month for child care. Most people barley take home 3000 a month if their lucky. It makes no financial sense for both parents to work if all the income from one parent goes to daycare. So mom or dad takes a couple years of leave from work until the babies are toddlers and daycare costs are somewhat reduced. If mom or dad isn’t working the government loses out on at least 10,000 dollars a year in combined income and sales taxes per year per family. If this is true for 1600 families in BC (which is most likely) the government is losing 1.6 billion every year. If the numbers were closely examined taking everything into account the 10 dollar a day idea may actually make sense. I dont know just a thought?
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Re: Publicly-funded care that only costs $10 a day

Postby twobits » Feb 13th, 2013, 11:53 am

ford150 wrote:Daycare costs at least 1500 dollars per month per baby. Daycares all have waiting lists they raise their rates until the list starts to drop then hold it there, you know supply and demand, there is way more demand than supply which drives the cost up, way up. So a family that has two babies pays 3000 dollars a month for child care. Most people barley take home 3000 a month if their lucky.


Where did you get this misinformation. I just googled daycare rates for Kelowna and the range is $625-$775/per month for full time (liscensed) 5 days a week care. I also googled BC Govt daycare subsidy rates and went thru their online calculator with various childcare senarios. For a husband/wife with two preschool children making a combined annual income of 50k/yr, it is a subsidy of $600 per child per month leaving the parents with a monthly bill for daycare of between $50-$350 for two children. IMO, this is a perfectly adequete, actually quite generous subsidy for a 50k household. On top of this,all child care expenses are fully tax deductible to lower your elegibility bracket as they work off net incomes.
Try doing a little research instead of pulling numbers out of thin air.
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Re: Publicly-funded care that only costs $10 a day

Postby ford150 » Feb 13th, 2013, 12:39 pm

oh you goggled it, I stand corrected. Because if its on the web is must be 100% correct. Also I was talking infant not pre schooler big differnce in cost. If you can get an infant into licensed daycare for under 1000 go for it. And 50,000 combined is both parents earning minimum wage and they would get a subsidy. If you make any more than min wage the subsidy is clawed back. Basically if you are a min wage worker your daycare is paid for you if you have worked hard to make something of yourself you pay the whole shot.

British Columbia Child Care Cost
TYPE AGE CAT. SPOT AVG. COST ($) ENTRIES
Licensed Infant Full-Time 878.84 714

Average of 714 across bc
Cant find just Okanagan but assume would be above average cost just like everything else.

When my kids were babies the daycare used to put the reciepts in a basket for the parents to take home. Mine was around 3000 per month. The min wage lady with two kids same age as mine was 60 dollars. You do get to claim it on your tax return but it is applied to the lower income earner. If one spouce earns a low wage there is very little deducted from income.
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Re: Publicly-funded care that only costs $10 a day

Postby Glacier » Feb 13th, 2013, 12:41 pm

ford150 wrote:When my kids were babies the daycare used to put the reciepts in a basket for the parents to take home. Mine was around 3000 per month.

You were getting hosed on an almost fraudulent level.

Great post twobits!
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Re: Publicly-funded care that only costs $10 a day

Postby ford150 » Feb 13th, 2013, 12:47 pm

You were getting hosed on an almost fraudulent level.



Ya I was getting robbed but I was living in a boom town. Making huge money. The daycares had seven year waiting lists and could charge whatever they wanted. The rates increased almost monthly. If you have that kind of demand greed sinks in.
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Re: Publicly-funded care that only costs $10 a day

Postby Glacier » Feb 13th, 2013, 12:54 pm

ford150 wrote:Ya I was getting robbed but I was living in a boom town. Making huge money. The daycares had seven year waiting lists and could charge whatever they wanted. The rates increased almost monthly. If you have that kind of demand greed sinks in.

And if you reduce the price even further, there will be even more demand for daycare driving price prices even further, costing the government more money than they say it will cost, increasing debt and taxes, and finally, leaving families right back where they started, except with less incentive to have children in the first place.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for helping single parent and low income families, but let's not shift things so far that it becomes overly burdensome for families who chose to keep one a parent at home.
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Re: Publicly-funded care that only costs $10 a day

Postby ford150 » Feb 13th, 2013, 1:01 pm

And if you reduce the price even further, there will be even more demand for daycare driving price prices even further, costing the government more money than they say it will cost, increasing debt and taxes, and finally, leaving families right back where they started.[/quote]

thanks for making my point.If daycare was afordable more people would enter the work force. We agree
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Re: Publicly-funded care that only costs $10 a day

Postby Glacier » Feb 13th, 2013, 1:08 pm

Yes, we agree. But where we disagree is whether or not that is a good thing.
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Re: Publicly-funded care that only costs $10 a day

Postby albertabound » Feb 13th, 2013, 2:32 pm

:sunshine: If you want kid look after them , not the state.
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Re: Publicly-funded care that only costs $10 a day

Postby twobits » Feb 13th, 2013, 3:58 pm

ford150 wrote:oh you goggled it, I stand corrected. Because if its on the web is must be 100% correct. Also I was talking infant not pre schooler big differnce in cost. If you can get an infant into licensed daycare for under 1000 go for it. And 50,000 combined is both parents earning minimum wage and they would get a subsidy. If you make any more than min wage the subsidy is clawed back. Basically if you are a min wage worker your daycare is paid for you if you have worked hard to make something of yourself you pay the whole shot.

British Columbia Child Care Cost
TYPE AGE CAT. SPOT AVG. COST ($) ENTRIES
Licensed Infant Full-Time 878.84 714

Average of 714 across bc
Cant find just Okanagan but assume would be above average cost just like everything else.

When my kids were babies the daycare used to put the reciepts in a basket for the parents to take home. Mine was around 3000 per month. The min wage lady with two kids same age as mine was 60 dollars. You do get to claim it on your tax return but it is applied to the lower income earner. If one spouce earns a low wage there is very little deducted from income.


Ya I googled it and got the Govt of BC site so ya, I'd say the info was correct. Kelowna infant care from 525 to 813/month. You were getting hosed because you lived in boom town with huge wages. It's all relative then isn't it? Your mistake was presenting the information on child care expenses you experienced as some kind of provincial norm when it is clearly not. And guess what.......even in your boom town the single mother on min wage was looked after just fine wasn't she? Ergo our day care system seems to be not as broken as people would make it out to be and the only thing creating $10 universal daycare would accomplish is subsidizing people that don't really need to be subsidized. Let's call it the European disease.......where everything is near free but increases in taxes to pay for it causes strikes and riots.
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Re: Publicly-funded care that only costs $10 a day

Postby ford150 » Feb 13th, 2013, 4:29 pm

I don’t think we dis-agree Glacier I never said I was for or against the idea just that it might make sense. There would need to be a detailed cost analysis examining both sides of the coin. Freeing up people to join the work force and paying income tax over staying home to raise the kids for example. That is lost revenue to the government and may actually exceed the cost of subsidising daycare I don’t know? I think a closer look may be a good idea. Not saying go for it just that it might actually save money who knows no one has looked. One spouse not working reduces household income which in turn reduces revenue to the government coffers.
Canadians choosing not to have kids while bringing in temporary foreign workers seems wrong somehow. Canadian kids will be future lifelong taxpayers and consumers versus temporary foreigners sending their pay cheques home. Like I said in my original post perhaps its worth looking further into.
BTW my kids are done with the whole daycare thing it cost me a fortune but that is water under the bridge. I really don’t care if it happens or not.
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Re: Publicly-funded care that only costs $10 a day

Postby SurplusElect » Feb 13th, 2013, 4:48 pm

Why daycare at all? Why can't a parent stay home and raise their kids?

Of course this touches on economic factors.

Political bias and reasoning aside - fact is both parents need to work nowadays, let alone post secondary considerations.

What has changed that we even have to talk about daycare?

Instead of funding public daycare - enable families to be able to survive on a single income. After all - latchkey and absentee parents are not "good" things for Canada. We can tie in crime rates and all sorts of things related to that topic.
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